Value of the Patent Bar to a non-Science major

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Anonymous User
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Value of the Patent Bar to a non-Science major

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:29 pm

I am a 1L and while looking for jobs this summer, I noticed a lot of IP opportunities. I did not major in a hard Science, but I did minor in one. I would only need to take two more classes to be eligible for the Patent Bar, which I can do while in law school. With that in mind, would it be useful to take the patent bar, or would my limited experience make it useless?

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TTRansfer
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Re: Value of the Patent Bar to a non-Science major

Postby TTRansfer » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:31 pm

Near useless.

09042014
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Re: Value of the Patent Bar to a non-Science major

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am a 1L and while looking for jobs this summer, I noticed a lot of IP opportunities. I did not major in a hard Science, but I did minor in one. I would only need to take two more classes to be eligible for the Patent Bar, which I can do while in law school. With that in mind, would it be useful to take the patent bar, or would my limited experience make it useless?


I think you have to take the classes first. What is your major and minor?

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Re: Value of the Patent Bar to a non-Science major

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:46 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am a 1L and while looking for jobs this summer, I noticed a lot of IP opportunities. I did not major in a hard Science, but I did minor in one. I would only need to take two more classes to be eligible for the Patent Bar, which I can do while in law school. With that in mind, would it be useful to take the patent bar, or would my limited experience make it useless?


I think you have to take the classes first. What is your major and minor?


OP here. I majored in History and minored in Chemistry. I have been looking into it and if you have 30 Chem credits you can sit for the exam. I have 24 at the moment so 2 classes would get me to 30. And you are right, I would have to have completed the required credits before I could take the exam.

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Re: Value of the Patent Bar to a non-Science major

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am a 1L and while looking for jobs this summer, I noticed a lot of IP opportunities. I did not major in a hard Science, but I did minor in one. I would only need to take two more classes to be eligible for the Patent Bar, which I can do while in law school. With that in mind, would it be useful to take the patent bar, or would my limited experience make it useless?


I think you have to take the classes first. What is your major and minor?


OP here. I majored in History and minored in Chemistry. I have been looking into it and if you have 30 Chem credits you can sit for the exam. I have 24 at the moment so 2 classes would get me to 30. And you are right, I would have to have completed the required credits before I could take the exam.


I doubt you'll get any traction in the job market with that. Even a major in Chem doesn't really cut it, they prefer PhDs. I'd take the two or three chem classes now while you get it included in your tuition, but I wouldn't waste money paying for hte patent bar.

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Re: Value of the Patent Bar to a non-Science major

Postby TaipeiMort » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:12 am

Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am a 1L and while looking for jobs this summer, I noticed a lot of IP opportunities. I did not major in a hard Science, but I did minor in one. I would only need to take two more classes to be eligible for the Patent Bar, which I can do while in law school. With that in mind, would it be useful to take the patent bar, or would my limited experience make it useless?


I think you have to take the classes first. What is your major and minor?


OP here. I majored in History and minored in Chemistry. I have been looking into it and if you have 30 Chem credits you can sit for the exam. I have 24 at the moment so 2 classes would get me to 30. And you are right, I would have to have completed the required credits before I could take the exam.


I doubt you'll get any traction in the job market with that. Even a major in Chem doesn't really cut it, they prefer PhDs. I'd take the two or three chem classes now while you get it included in your tuition, but I wouldn't waste money paying for hte patent bar.


It won't help for patent prosecution, but it will help for IP lit at some firms.

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Re: Value of the Patent Bar to a non-Science major

Postby 09042014 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:24 am

TaipeiMort wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
I think you have to take the classes first. What is your major and minor?


OP here. I majored in History and minored in Chemistry. I have been looking into it and if you have 30 Chem credits you can sit for the exam. I have 24 at the moment so 2 classes would get me to 30. And you are right, I would have to have completed the required credits before I could take the exam.


I doubt you'll get any traction in the job market with that. Even a major in Chem doesn't really cut it, they prefer PhDs. I'd take the two or three chem classes now while you get it included in your tuition, but I wouldn't waste money paying for hte patent bar.


It won't help for patent prosecution, but it will help for IP lit at some firms.


They want him to have done the patent bar, or just be eligible to have?

OP, sign up for the Loyola Patent Fair right now if you wanna try that IP lit path.

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Re: Value of the Patent Bar to a non-Science major

Postby FF55 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:28 am

OP - ignore all of the other replies in this thread. They are wrong.

Being nearly patent-bar eligible can absolutely open doors both in prosecution and lit. That said, the key is to be able to communicate your genuine interest and commitment to patent law. This is not necessarily a given and at least some employers will think you are just saying whatever you have to say to get the job, but that doesnt mean it can't be done. The mere fact that you are willing to take hard science classes concurrent with law school classes already says a lot about your commitment to the field; hammer that fact in interviews and be genuine and I think you've got a shot.

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Re: Value of the Patent Bar to a non-Science major

Postby lukertin » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:33 am

FF55 wrote:OP - ignore all of the other replies in this thread. They are wrong.

Being nearly patent-bar eligible can absolutely open doors both in prosecution and lit. That said, the key is to be able to communicate your genuine interest and commitment to patent law. This is not necessarily a given and at least some employers will think you are just saying whatever you have to say to get the job, but that doesnt mean it can't be done. The mere fact that you are willing to take hard science classes concurrent with law school classes already says a lot about your commitment to the field; hammer that fact in interviews and be genuine and I think you've got a shot.

You're full of yourself. Partners at a pros firm couldn't care less about your "commitment". The only thing they cares about is being able to market your credentials to clients, and marketing a History BA to a Saint-Gobain, or Sigma-Aldrich is utterly laughable. Pros firms rarely touch majors for cross-disciplines, what on earth makes you think they'll take on a liberal arts major?

Lit is a whole different story. Many places don't even care if you have a science background or not.

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Re: Value of the Patent Bar to a non-Science major

Postby 09042014 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:47 am

lukertin wrote:
FF55 wrote:OP - ignore all of the other replies in this thread. They are wrong.

Being nearly patent-bar eligible can absolutely open doors both in prosecution and lit. That said, the key is to be able to communicate your genuine interest and commitment to patent law. This is not necessarily a given and at least some employers will think you are just saying whatever you have to say to get the job, but that doesnt mean it can't be done. The mere fact that you are willing to take hard science classes concurrent with law school classes already says a lot about your commitment to the field; hammer that fact in interviews and be genuine and I think you've got a shot.

You're full of yourself. Partners at a pros firm couldn't care less about your "commitment". The only thing they cares about is being able to market your credentials to clients, and marketing a History BA to a Saint-Gobain, or Sigma-Aldrich is utterly laughable. Pros firms rarely touch majors for cross-disciplines, what on earth makes you think they'll take on a liberal arts major?

Lit is a whole different story. Many places don't even care if you have a science background or not.


I wouldn't say "many" for Lit, and those that do won't lower their standards for you, so it's as hard to get as a regular job at that firm.

Quinn and I think Weil don't require one at all. But you gotta have normal Quinn and Weil grades.

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Re: Value of the Patent Bar to a non-Science major

Postby iconoclasttt » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:24 am

FF55 wrote:OP - ignore all of the other replies in this thread. They are wrong.

Being nearly patent-bar eligible can absolutely open doors both in prosecution and lit. That said, the key is to be able to communicate your genuine interest and commitment to patent law. This is not necessarily a given and at least some employers will think you are just saying whatever you have to say to get the job, but that doesnt mean it can't be done. The mere fact that you are willing to take hard science classes concurrent with law school classes already says a lot about your commitment to the field; hammer that fact in interviews and be genuine and I think you've got a shot.


Absent extraordinary circumstances (connections, blackmail, etc.), being "nearly" patent-bar eligible will barely crack a window for prosecution, much less "open doors." In the last fifteen years, out of perhaps several hundred prosecutors or candidates I've worked with, met, or interviewed, exactly one was a true category B candidate with a liberal arts background (excluding those who had unaccredited CS degrees). She was exceptionally intelligent and a very quick study.

Truly understanding technology at a level beyond the bare minimum required for patent bar qualification is not optional for prosecution, at least at quality firms.

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Re: Value of the Patent Bar to a non-Science major

Postby Black-Blue » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:57 am

I have seen some liberal arts patent prosecutors (like 1 out of 200 or so), but they are all unusual circumstances. This includes litigators or other types of non-prosecution attorneys who also do prosecution from time to time.

Doing patent prosecution without a technical background is like becoming a lawyer without going to law school (which is possible in some states). Actually, for chemical, this comparison is even too easy since chem often requires MS/PhD.

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Re: Value of the Patent Bar to a non-Science major

Postby kryptix » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:50 pm

Black-Blue wrote:I have seen some liberal arts patent prosecutors (like 1 out of 200 or so), but they are all unusual circumstances. This includes litigators or other types of non-prosecution attorneys who also do prosecution from time to time.

Doing patent prosecution without a technical background is like becoming a lawyer without going to law school (which is possible in some states). Actually, for chemical, this comparison is even too easy since chem often requires MS/PhD.


Yeah I couldn't really get a crack at pros shops with a BS and 6 years of experience so Lit it is...

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Re: Value of the Patent Bar to a non-Science major

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:36 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
lukertin wrote:
FF55 wrote:OP - ignore all of the other replies in this thread. They are wrong.

Being nearly patent-bar eligible can absolutely open doors both in prosecution and lit. That said, the key is to be able to communicate your genuine interest and commitment to patent law. This is not necessarily a given and at least some employers will think you are just saying whatever you have to say to get the job, but that doesnt mean it can't be done. The mere fact that you are willing to take hard science classes concurrent with law school classes already says a lot about your commitment to the field; hammer that fact in interviews and be genuine and I think you've got a shot.

You're full of yourself. Partners at a pros firm couldn't care less about your "commitment". The only thing they cares about is being able to market your credentials to clients, and marketing a History BA to a Saint-Gobain, or Sigma-Aldrich is utterly laughable. Pros firms rarely touch majors for cross-disciplines, what on earth makes you think they'll take on a liberal arts major?

Lit is a whole different story. Many places don't even care if you have a science background or not.


I wouldn't say "many" for Lit, and those that do won't lower their standards for you, so it's as hard to get as a regular job at that firm.

Quinn and I think Weil don't require one at all. But you gotta have normal Quinn and Weil grades.


I agree--"many" is too strong. However, based on my experience with NY and DC IP groups/boutique firms, the ones that care about technical background are usually more lenient with your law school grades and whether you're on journal. They do make up for this by focusing on your undergrad grades and lab experience though. There are also firms that do a lot of litigation that won't lower their standards for law school performance but could care less how you did in your science courses. I am less "nearly" patent bar-eligible than OP (I need 8-10 more credits even though my major includes the word biology hah) and I got a callback from a prosecution heavy boutique in DC. The hiring partner was very straight forward and asked me to explain the C's and B's in my lab classes. Did not get an offer from there. On the other hand, I surprisingly got an offer from an IP boutique that does half pros half lit even though I had to admit to a partner that I had no real lab experience and have not made plans to become patent eligible yet. Takeaway: depends on whether the firm is pros or lit heavy.

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Re: Value of the Patent Bar to a non-Science major

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:28 pm

Also the callback from the DC prosecution heavy firm was from mass mailing and they knew my undergrad grades before the callback invite.

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Re: Value of the Patent Bar to a non-Science major

Postby 09042014 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
lukertin wrote:
FF55 wrote:OP - ignore all of the other replies in this thread. They are wrong.

Being nearly patent-bar eligible can absolutely open doors both in prosecution and lit. That said, the key is to be able to communicate your genuine interest and commitment to patent law. This is not necessarily a given and at least some employers will think you are just saying whatever you have to say to get the job, but that doesnt mean it can't be done. The mere fact that you are willing to take hard science classes concurrent with law school classes already says a lot about your commitment to the field; hammer that fact in interviews and be genuine and I think you've got a shot.

You're full of yourself. Partners at a pros firm couldn't care less about your "commitment". The only thing they cares about is being able to market your credentials to clients, and marketing a History BA to a Saint-Gobain, or Sigma-Aldrich is utterly laughable. Pros firms rarely touch majors for cross-disciplines, what on earth makes you think they'll take on a liberal arts major?

Lit is a whole different story. Many places don't even care if you have a science background or not.


I wouldn't say "many" for Lit, and those that do won't lower their standards for you, so it's as hard to get as a regular job at that firm.

Quinn and I think Weil don't require one at all. But you gotta have normal Quinn and Weil grades.


I agree--"many" is too strong. However, based on my experience with NY and DC IP groups/boutique firms, the ones that care about technical background are usually more lenient with your law school grades and whether you're on journal. They do make up for this by focusing on your undergrad grades and lab experience though. There are also firms that do a lot of litigation that won't lower their standards for law school performance but could care less how you did in your science courses. I am less "nearly" patent bar-eligible than OP (I need 8-10 more credits even though my major includes the word biology hah) and I got a callback from a prosecution heavy boutique in DC. The hiring partner was very straight forward and asked me to explain the C's and B's in my lab classes. Did not get an offer from there. On the other hand, I surprisingly got an offer from an IP boutique that does half pros half lit even though I had to admit to a partner that I had no real lab experience and have not made plans to become patent eligible yet. Takeaway: depends on whether the firm is pros or lit heavy.


A lot of the lit heavy shops just want you to have a some technical background. Being patent bar eligible isn't a big deal. They just want someone who can understand a patent, and converse about it. And they definitely lower their standards to get it.

I dunno a chem minor would work, but I'd at least try. OP Loyola patent fair registration closes soon, I'd hurry.




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