NLJ 250 Statistics?

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Borg
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NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby Borg » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:16 pm

I was looking at the NLJ 250 that came out recently, and I was surprised at how low the percentages were. It is at odds with both Law School Transparency's figures and personal experience, as virtually everyone I know from my school is going to an NLJ 250 firm, but the top school according to them is only placing 60%. Anyone know why there might be a discrepancy?

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 0126161309

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rinkrat19
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:18 pm

Borg wrote:I was looking at the NLJ 250 that came out recently, and I was surprised at how low the percentages were. It is at odds with both Law School Transparency's figures and personal experience, as virtually everyone I know from my school is going to an NLJ 250 firm, but the top school according to them is only placing 60%. Anyone know why there might be a discrepancy?

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 0126161309

The schools have no motivation to underreport biglaw placement (quite the contrary). More likely, either your sample is unrepresentative of your class or some of your classmates are lying.

Pokemon
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby Pokemon » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:23 pm

Borg wrote:I was looking at the NLJ 250 that came out recently, and I was surprised at how low the percentages were. It is at odds with both Law School Transparency's figures and personal experience, as virtually everyone I know from my school is going to an NLJ 250 firm, but the top school according to them is only placing 60%. Anyone know why there might be a discrepancy?

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 0126161309


People with no jobs do not walk in the hallways telling everyone about how excited they are for the summer. So, you do not hear them, but they exist.
This attitude of "everyone I know has a job" is another reason for them not to speak. No one wants to tell you, "excuse me Borg, but let me correct you, you do know me, and I am jerbless."

KidStuddi
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby KidStuddi » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:27 pm

Clerkship bound people don't count I believe. That's part of the discrepancy.

09042014
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:38 pm

Back at the absolute peak this is what the numbers looked like:

Image

And then it was basically accepted that everyone got big law. That probably wasn't totally true. Bad grades, lazy job search and poor interviewing could get you.

We've basically lost 20% of the peak of the peak. Probably more like 15% from normal. Sub t14 lost more from peak of the peak, but it was only during that peak that they started getting so many jobs in the first place. Because T14 schools didn't have any more students to give.

You've got PI, clerkships, business (at schools with JD/MBAs from the M7; they frequently go the MBA path), boutiques not included, biglawish firms that aren't in the 250 (there are probably 100 or more firms that very well that aren't in the 250), some firms in the 250 don't give data, people who just don't really try to find a job (this is shockingly common), social outcasts, etc. etc.

Also, ~10% of SA's get no offered.

Big Dog
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby Big Dog » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:54 pm

I just love it when law types try out math. :P

The top 3 have an average decline of 32%, whereas the the mid-pack (GW, for example), has dropped 44%.

09042014
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:15 pm

Big Dog wrote:I just love it when law types try out math. :P

The top 3 have an average decline of 32%, whereas the the mid-pack (GW, for example), has dropped 44%.


I've got a BS in Electrical Engineering brah. I can do arithmetic. I mean 20% of the class as a whole.

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Lasers
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby Lasers » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:44 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Back at the absolute peak this is what the numbers looked like:

Image

And then it was basically accepted that everyone got big law. That probably wasn't totally true. Bad grades, lazy job search and poor interviewing could get you.

We've basically lost 20% of the peak of the peak. Probably more like 15% from normal. Sub t14 lost more from peak of the peak, but it was only during that peak that they started getting so many jobs in the first place. Because T14 schools didn't have any more students to give.

You've got PI, clerkships, business (at schools with JD/MBAs from the M7; they frequently go the MBA path), boutiques not included, biglawish firms that aren't in the 250 (there are probably 100 or more firms that very well that aren't in the 250), some firms in the 250 don't give data, people who just don't really try to find a job (this is shockingly common), social outcasts, etc. etc.

Also, ~10% of SA's get no offered.

holy fuck, my heart broke seeing those numbers.

70%+ placement isn't even fair...also, usc was doing work at 43%...sigh.

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romothesavior
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:35 pm

1. More people are jobless at your school than you think.
2. Clerkships aren't included, even if the person has a job lined up post-clerkship.
3. Some people who can get biglaw decide to do other stuff.
4. There probably won't be a huge spike, but the data for c/o 2013 will probably be slightly higher than 2012.

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Uncle.Joe
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby Uncle.Joe » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:24 pm

nvm I misunderstood

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smokeylarue
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby smokeylarue » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:07 pm

NLJ 250 underreports because not all firms report their data.

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Bikeflip
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby Bikeflip » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:11 pm

Hey look, pretty charts.

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romothesavior
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:36 am

Bikeflip wrote:Hey look, pretty charts.

Cooley had one out of 999.

09042014
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:41 am

romothesavior wrote:
Bikeflip wrote:Hey look, pretty charts.

Cooley had one out of 999.


I wonder if that dood just dickslangs around campus.

09042014
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:44 am

Just looked up the firm that cooley person went. It's not big law, it's a personal injury firm. It's like 1800flowers for slip and fall attorneys.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:46 am

Desert Fox wrote:Just looked up the firm that cooley person went. It's not big law, it's a personal injury firm. It's like 1800flowers for slip and fall attorneys.

I bet he still dickslangs.

rad lulz
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby rad lulz » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:47 am

Desert Fox wrote:Just looked up the firm that cooley person went. It's not big law, it's a personal injury firm. It's like 1800flowers for slip and fall attorneys.

I'm pretty familiar with them. They've got some pretty good individual attorneys, and it's extremely profitable, but it's a mill.

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Aawaldrop
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby Aawaldrop » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:50 am

Bikeflip wrote:Hey look, pretty charts.


I like the charts, but I wish the percentage vs tuition would be based on the total COA.

PS I know I could do it myself but laziness

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IrwinM.Fletcher
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:17 am

Arizona State put one person each at Kirkland and Cahill.

THE ASCENT CONTINUES

rad lulz
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby rad lulz » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:18 am

IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:Arizona State put one person each at Kirkland and Cahill.

THE ASCENT CONTINUES

DROVES I TELL YOU

Anonymous User
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:31 pm

smokeylarue wrote:NLJ 250 underreports because not all firms report their data.



Yeah, this is right -- look at this link: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... aw_Schools

They report Davis Polk (which had a class size of 100+) as having hired 6 people. HCN each sent 15-20 people there last year, whereas schools like Penn and Chicago sent less than 5. The data is simply inaccurate. based on a quick scan, the stats for Williams & Connelly, Cravath, and Weil are inaccurate as well.

Amazingly, Paul Weiss, one of the biggest recruiters among NY biglaw firms, which regularly takes a dozen or more from HCN, isn't even part of the data.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby Elston Gunn » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
smokeylarue wrote:NLJ 250 underreports because not all firms report their data.



Yeah, this is right -- look at this link: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... aw_Schools

They report Davis Polk (which had a class size of 100+) as having hired 6 people. HCN each sent 15-20 people there last year, whereas schools like Penn and Chicago sent less than 5. The data is simply inaccurate. based on a quick scan, the stats for Williams & Connelly, Cravath, and Weil are inaccurate as well.

Amazingly, Paul Weiss, one of the biggest recruiters among NY biglaw firms, which regularly takes a dozen or more from HCN, isn't even part of the data.


Yeah, there are a bunch of firms that aren't represented accurately, but since W&C doesn't generally hire immediate graduates before clerking, it might be accurate.

KidStuddi
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Re: NLJ 250 Statistics?

Postby KidStuddi » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:13 am

Elston Gunn wrote:
Yeah, there are a bunch of firms that aren't represented accurately, but since W&C doesn't generally hire immediate graduates before clerking, it might be accurate.


What? No. WC hires SAs and offers at the end of the summer just like everyone else. Half of the associates I met on my CB hadn't ever clerked. It's true a disproportionate number of their hires will go on to clerk given that the firm is essentially litigation only, but they certainly don't hire exclusively post clerkship like some of the smaller litigation boutiques.




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