What do you do as a 3L without a job?

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What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:06 am

Just hoping for advice from 3Ls who did not find jobs by this point. I go to a top school with a good gpa, above median, but not good enough clearly to have helped me secure a job during 1L :(.

I actually really like being a lawyer. As a student attorney at my clinic, I've had a good number of litigation victories worth thousands of dollars. I know that I can do this. I just can't find anyone willing to give me at least an interview..at least not yet. It seems so easy to get an interview as a summer law clerk, judicial intern, whatever, but never as an actual attorney.

Anyways, what do I do? Do I just take a non-JD job and hope that one day I can become a lawyer? In case I got confusing, the question is: if i don't find a JD-required job, what do I do in the meantime to get both money and to keep my dreams of being a lawyer alive?

Thanks.

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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:32 am

if you really like being a lawyer, would you consider hanging your shingle in the area of law your clinic is in? i have a friend who started a family law and smal criminal defense firm a little over a year ago and already has hundreds of clients. you will be poor but you will get a lot of experience. she already has firms that are talking to her about absorbing her practice

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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:37 am

OP here: I would, but I don't know if I have enough money for that. I have to pay rent and basic living expenses. I've been living on about 40k per year, 16.5k on rent, the rest on expenses. Barely any savings. Loans to repay. I don't know how realistic it is for me to not have a salary of at least 40k so I can just keep myself living as I am now.

How did your friend manage it?

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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:38 am

If you have not had the opportunity to be interviewed by a firm or recruiter, I have to ask, what is your definition of a top school (as in your ballpark usnrw rank)?

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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:40 am

OP here: It's a top-20 school. I did get interviewed during 1L by some big firms. Made it to some callbacks, did not get an offer. Worked for the Government over the last summer, but with the sequester and stuff, I'm not going to be getting a gov attorney job after graduation.

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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here: It's a top-20 school. I did get interviewed during 1L by some big firms. Made it to some callbacks, did not get an offer. Worked for the Government over the last summer, but with the sequester and stuff, I'm not going to be getting a gov attorney job after graduation.

Top 20 usually means plenty of OCI interviews. Are you a 2L worried about being a 3L without an offer? Is that it? If so, sounds to me like that you (like sooooo many others) are going through the dreadful stress zone grinder, anxious about landing a spot somewhere. Or is it worse than that?

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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:49 am

OP here: I'm a 3L worried about not having a job post-graduation. So yeah, it's worse than that. =(

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2LsAPlenty
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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby 2LsAPlenty » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:54 am

Welcome to the Vale of Tears.

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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here: I'm a 3L worried about not having a job post-graduation. So yeah, it's worse than that. =(

Sorry to hear that. Advice (if you want to call it that), start a thread on TLS asking 3Ls who landed on their feet, how they did it. I know, pretty lame, but that and best wishes is all I have. :cry:

rad lulz
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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby rad lulz » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:33 pm

2LsAPlenty wrote:Welcome to the Vale of Tears.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=192753

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ndirish2010
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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here: It's a top-20 school. I did get interviewed during 1L by some big firms. Made it to some callbacks, did not get an offer. Worked for the Government over the last summer, but with the sequester and stuff, I'm not going to be getting a gov attorney job after graduation.

Top 20 usually means plenty of OCI interviews. Are you a 2L worried about being a 3L without an offer? Is that it? If so, sounds to me like that you (like sooooo many others) are going through the dreadful stress zone grinder, anxious about landing a spot somewhere. Or is it worse than that?


Wait WTF is this real? You can't be serious.

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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:30 pm

Continue taking skills courses, watch Symplicity like a hawk, mass mail, try to go to various local bar association events, create a Linkedin -- basically just put yourself out there.

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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:37 pm

You should be doing the exact same things you would have been doing anyway.

This includes:
1) looking for jobs (I have a job and I still apply to jobs that are "dream jobs")
2) Network (really... how hard is it to go to a bar meeting/networking event/inn of court a couple of times a month?)
3) working -- I have a job already but I'm working for a different firm during the school year. I know that my current firm has said I can work when I like while studying for the bar (and after the bar until my job starts). I'm pretty sure that if they didn't already know I had a job, I could just keep working here (albeit likely in an hourly capacity).
4) having fun -- don't underestimate the chance of (1) getting to know someone who can find you a job randomly or (2) getting hooked up with a job by a friend. I know this is less than ideal, but for example, a classmate of mine is intending to start a solo practice, and he asked me if I'd like to join up. Again, not ideal, but better than absolutely nothing.
5) STOP WORRYING -- jesus, I don't know how you guys get it in your head that you should expect a job prior to graduation. That is the old world that we no longer live in. You have 4-5 months until graduation, and another 4-5 months before bar results will be back. You have almost a year to continue to look for work, so stop worrying so much!

09042014
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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:43 pm

Go get an oil job in North Dakota.

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cinephile
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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby cinephile » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:48 pm

Two things:

You're a 1L without a job? What does that mean? Everyone gets a 1L summer job, just apply everywhere and you'll find something. It won't be paid but don't worry about it this summer.

You can't live on anything less than 40k a year? How is it possible that you've spent every penny? How do you survive as a law student?

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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby Pokemon » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:22 pm

Spending 40k a year as a student is extravagant. Considering taxes, that would mean that even as a single person you would not survive with an income of less than 60k. That needs to be adjusted.

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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:29 pm

cinephile wrote:Two things:

You're a 1L without a job? What does that mean? Everyone gets a 1L summer job, just apply everywhere and you'll find something. It won't be paid but don't worry about it this summer.

You can't live on anything less than 40k a year? How is it possible that you've spent every penny? How do you survive as a law student?


Anonymous User wrote:OP here: I'm a 3L worried about not having a job post-graduation. So yeah, it's worse than that. =(

09042014
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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:42 pm

Pokemon wrote:Spending 40k a year as a student is extravagant. Considering taxes, that would mean that even as a single person you would not survive with an income of less than 60k. That needs to be adjusted.


Unless they already adjusted for tax, yea this is absurd.

I was living on 30K in the most expensive part of Chicago, with zero budgets. The only thing I didn't have was a car because it wasn't necessary.

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2LsAPlenty
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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby 2LsAPlenty » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:43 pm

4 to 5 months until graduation?

09042014
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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:51 pm

Why is everyone so confused what a 3L is in this thread?

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cinephile
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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby cinephile » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:57 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Why is everyone so confused what a 3L is in this thread?


Got confused when OP said s/he didn't get a job as a 1L. Didn't realize s/he meant s/he got nothing at OCI.

And as I have no idea how to help, all I can say is good luck.

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Objection
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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby Objection » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:24 pm

Get better at interviewing.

It's usually your job to lose at the callback phase.

That means you're doing something wrong to put you on the bottom of people who got callbacks.

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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:22 pm

OP here: I don't think what the above poster said is my problem. When I went to one callback, there were like 10 other people in line with me for it. They only offered SA positions for 2 people. Apparently, they had also already conducted callbacks for people weeks before I did, and I was scheduled for the last day of callbacks. Also, it turned out that an offer was already made for one of the positions even before I interviewed.

I don't think it was a job I didn't get due to bad interviewing skills. I know I have good interviewing skills- it's how I got my current job at the government, a position which is actually pretty competitive. Unfortunately, the government is not hiring full-time attorneys now, what with the sequester and lack of funding.

Spending 40k a year as a student is extravagant. Considering taxes, that would mean that even as a single person you would not survive with an income of less than 60k. That needs to be adjusted.


The city I live in is expensive. 40k a year isn't really that much here. Almost 20k of that is just on rent, health insurance, utilities alone.

You should be doing the exact same things you would have been doing anyway.

This includes:
1) looking for jobs (I have a job and I still apply to jobs that are "dream jobs")
2) Network (really... how hard is it to go to a bar meeting/networking event/inn of court a couple of times a month?)
3) working -- I have a job already but I'm working for a different firm during the school year. I know that my current firm has said I can work when I like while studying for the bar (and after the bar until my job starts). I'm pretty sure that if they didn't already know I had a job, I could just keep working here (albeit likely in an hourly capacity).
4) having fun -- don't underestimate the chance of (1) getting to know someone who can find you a job randomly or (2) getting hooked up with a job by a friend. I know this is less than ideal, but for example, a classmate of mine is intending to start a solo practice, and he asked me if I'd like to join up. Again, not ideal, but better than absolutely nothing.
5) STOP WORRYING -- jesus, I don't know how you guys get it in your head that you should expect a job prior to graduation. That is the old world that we no longer live in. You have 4-5 months until graduation, and another 4-5 months before bar results will be back. You have almost a year to continue to look for work, so stop worrying so much!




Thanks for the advice!

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JenDarby
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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby JenDarby » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:01 pm

Do you live somewhere more expensive than Manhattan? If so you need to move, because my rent on the UWS in Manhattan is outrageous and my not so cheap lifestyle costs far less than that.

I will likely move to some shit hole when I graduate to account for debt payments, at which point my expenses will be even lower. Is there anywhere you could move and spend less on rent? Roommates?

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Objection
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Re: What do you do as a 3L without a job?

Postby Objection » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here: I don't think what the above poster said is my problem. When I went to one callback, there were like 10 other people in line with me for it. They only offered SA positions for 2 people. Apparently, they had also already conducted callbacks for people weeks before I did, and I was scheduled for the last day of callbacks. Also, it turned out that an offer was already made for one of the positions even before I interviewed.

I don't think it was a job I didn't get due to bad interviewing skills. I know I have good interviewing skills- it's how I got my current job at the government, a position which is actually pretty competitive. Unfortunately, the government is not hiring full-time attorneys now, what with the sequester and lack of funding.



Wait, in the OP you said you don't have a job. Now you have a current job in the government? Summer internships that won't turn into full positions don't really count as "jobs," and if they're in the past, they're not current.

Maybe you're misspeaking and being totally honest. I think you might be in denial.

The fact of the matter is that, if you're being honest about your background, and you've had some callbacks, you would have secured something if you had better interviews. Everyone they brought in was "hire-able." So those 10 people brought in for the callback? All hire-able, and I doubt they would have brought you in if your credentials weren't competitive with theirs. So you didn't interview well enough. Is it a similar story elsewhere?

Not trying to be rude, but there's something going on that's unrelated to your credentials (which seem very good) that's preventing you from getting hired, and it's not just the economy. Whether it's interviewing or something you're not sharing with us, who knows?

Are you being too selective? The Vault isn't the end-all, be-all of law firms. Many firms keep a low profile hoping the people that apply to them will be the self-selecting group that really want to work there. Dig into CSM, dig into NALP, dig into Chambers. Lots of law firms out there that would kill for top 20 talent, they just don't make the Vault list.




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