1L summer: judicial clerk vs biglaw SA

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adonai
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Re: 1L summer: judicial clerk vs biglaw SA

Postby adonai » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:38 am

TaipeiMort wrote:
adonai wrote:Why is this even a question? Go with the V100. If it was Kozinski or some other famous higher level court judge, I'd say it would be worth a brief consideration. But even then, V100 should win out. Having done both CoA/district court externships, I think the amount of "bump" they give is highly overrated on these forums. If you don't have the grades, no judicial internship will make up for that if you decide to clerk later on. A biglaw SA will actually give you money and a chance for a full-time job. It will also be beneficial in your spouse's hunt for a clerkship if your spouse decides they want to pursue that later on.

If your spouse is really remorseful for passing on the judicial internship with Koh (or whoever it might be), he/she can just do a visiting student gig at Berkeley (I think HYS has a special visiting student program with Berk) and do it that way during the school year. There were some kids at my CoA who were doing this.


The reason they are overrated in general is because career services pumps them as holy-grail-type opportunities in order to increase their yield of A3 clerks after graduation.

Exactly, and they fail at this as well because statistically a judicial externship is neither sufficient nor necessary to get an A3 clerkship.

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L summer: judicial clerk vs biglaw SA

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:15 pm

A followup: your views have been helpful and much noted, but my spouse is nevertheless leaning heavily toward the externship.

I think you all may be right to say that the externship is no better than the SA position for future employability (at least at biglaw firms), and if anything perhaps slightly worse. We have received a lot of advice from other, non-Internet sources on the matter, and while the majority has actually been in favor of the externship (which is a pretty dramatic contrast to the views here), the reasons in favor have not centered around the direct employment consequences for 2L summer, but more about the general benefits of such a distinctive externship as an experience, and how it is complementary to the inevitable firm job next year.

The typical reasoning my spouse has heard (as maddening as this probably sounds to some of you) is "with your background you're guaranteed to get a job anyway, and this is a good chance to obtain a unique and different kind of experience". (On the other hand, everyone we've talked to has recognized and been impressed by the name of the judge in question, suggesting that there may indeed be some "name recognition" benefits to the externship equal or greater to the firm job.)

Externs with the same judge last year have all been very positive about the experience, suggesting that it is much, much better, with more personal involvement by the judge, than the stereotypical "clerks' slave" externship. Their job searches this year also seem to have gone quite well -- and when I hear someone with a 2L summer lined up at a top 5 firm talking about how this particular externship was very useful in interviews, I tend to believe him. (Again suggesting that the hit to employment prospects, if there is any, is very slight.)

All that said, I was strongly influenced a few days ago by the strength of views here in favor of the SA position. The prevailing attitude here, to caricature only a little, seems to be "1L SA jobs are the holy grail, and judicial externships are a dime a dozen". If anyone, given the above, still feels very strongly that the SA job is a much better option, I am very much open to hearing that case.

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L summer: judicial clerk vs biglaw SA

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:23 am

I have had this dilemma. I chose the judge, specifically because the judge said that he will introduce me to many people and will try to get me a job. A 1L SA isn't too hard to get from YS, so it won't matter for 2L SA really. I think it's ridiculous to work as a 1L SA if you are getting need-based aid at HYS. Say Harvard gives you 30k in need-based aid, well, you will be working for 0 dollars in a way as all your money has to go back to the need-based tuition you lost (unless of course you somehow invest that 30k and turn a serious profit to outweigh the loss in need based aid). My point is, if you are need-based, a judge can offer you more opportunities and if you have a judge that understand his/her role ie you are workig for free ao they owe you sonething in return, then you are in a great position; a firm on the other hand will work you hard because they dont know that your 30k means that you are essentially working for free ie your 30k goes back to tuition because you lost need based aid.

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L summer: judicial clerk vs biglaw SA

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:I have had this dilemma. I chose the judge, specifically because the judge said that he will introduce me to many people and will try to get me a job. A 1L SA isn't too hard to get from YS, so it won't matter for 2L SA really. I think it's ridiculous to work as a 1L SA if you are getting need-based aid at HYS. Say Harvard gives you 30k in need-based aid, well, you will be working for 0 dollars in a way as all your money has to go back to the need-based tuition you lost (unless of course you somehow invest that 30k and turn a serious profit to outweigh the loss in need based aid). My point is, if you are need-based, a judge can offer you more opportunities and if you have a judge that understand his/her role ie you are workig for free ao they owe you sonething in return, then you are in a great position; a firm on the other hand will work you hard because they dont know that your 30k means that you are essentially working for free ie your 30k goes back to tuition because you lost need based aid.

This is a good point regard the need based aid. If you essentially gain no money by going to the firm it might make the judge worth it since you aren't sacrificing any money.

The SA point is wrong though. Being an SA, for the most part, is an incredibly enjoyable experience where a firm wines and dines you. The firm is unlikely to work you hard, though exceptions do exist.

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Davidbentley
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Re: 1L summer: judicial clerk vs biglaw SA

Postby Davidbentley » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:38 am

There's a cost to the need based aid loss. But, at least at Stanford, you still come out many thousands of dollars ahead for your trouble once you factor in the reduced aid.




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