How is this even possible?

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Anonymous User
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How is this even possible?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:45 pm

Holland & Knight lists 4 Florida Coastal associates in the Jacksonville office....and most of them arent even magna cum laude or first in class....according to LST 2011 report, only 1 graduate of the school got a job in a firm with 501+ more attorneys....even if H&K is the biggest firm in Jacksonville, something still doesnt add up...someone i know is considering attending this school and mentioned this to me, don't mean to sound like a jerk or anything, but I'm just very curious for an explanation if anyone has one.

http://www.hklaw.com/professionals/uniG ... nalResults

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... &show=NALP

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:48 pm

The associates didn't graduate in 2011?

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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:54 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:The associates didn't graduate in 2011?


the 2011 report comment was meant to illustrate the obvious fact that florida coastal =/= biglaw....i guess all of the associate hires could be pre-2008 but i dont think so.

onionz
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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby onionz » Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:55 pm

Family connections, ties to big clients, etc, etc there are always people who get lucky, even if it's not the norm.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:00 pm

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that in the last, say, 5 years, 4 Florida Coastal grads have ended up in biglaw. That doesn't translate into Florida Coastal being THE place to go for Florida biglaw. (One of the associates was magna, one was EIC of LR, one had book awards and various extracurriculars and I think was cum laude, and one was formerly a paralegal with the firm.) 451 students graduated between Sept. 2010 and August 2011. Even if it was 4 out of that class (which it probably isn't), that's not exactly a winning percentage.

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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:03 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I don't think it's unreasonable to think that in the last, say, 5 years, 4 Florida Coastal grads have ended up in biglaw. That doesn't translate into Florida Coastal being THE place to go for Florida biglaw. (One of the associates was magna, one was EIC of LR, one had book awards and various extracurriculars and I think was cum laude, and one was formerly a paralegal with the firm.) 451 students graduated between Sept. 2010 and August 2011. Even if it was 4 out of that class (which it probably isn't), that's not exactly a winning percentage.


this is all accurate if and only if this is the only biglaw firm where the school has this sort of placement (which very well may be the case, but I'm wondering if someone with knowledge of the market could comment...)

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I don't think it's unreasonable to think that in the last, say, 5 years, 4 Florida Coastal grads have ended up in biglaw. That doesn't translate into Florida Coastal being THE place to go for Florida biglaw. (One of the associates was magna, one was EIC of LR, one had book awards and various extracurriculars and I think was cum laude, and one was formerly a paralegal with the firm.) 451 students graduated between Sept. 2010 and August 2011. Even if it was 4 out of that class (which it probably isn't), that's not exactly a winning percentage.


this is all accurate if and only if this is the only biglaw firm where the school has this sort of placement (which very well may be the case, but I'm wondering if someone with knowledge of the market could comment...)

Sure. There may well be a few others in other firms. Is there a problem with the LST report you cited?

The thing with lower-ranked schools is it's not that no one can ever get biglaw coming out of them. It's that if your odds are, say, 23.1%*, and the school costs $19,732.50 per *semester*, it might not be the best investment.

*percent of students in law firm, attorney jobs according to LST. Most of those are in firms of 2-10 attorneys.

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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:10 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I don't think it's unreasonable to think that in the last, say, 5 years, 4 Florida Coastal grads have ended up in biglaw. That doesn't translate into Florida Coastal being THE place to go for Florida biglaw. (One of the associates was magna, one was EIC of LR, one had book awards and various extracurriculars and I think was cum laude, and one was formerly a paralegal with the firm.) 451 students graduated between Sept. 2010 and August 2011. Even if it was 4 out of that class (which it probably isn't), that's not exactly a winning percentage.


this is all accurate if and only if this is the only biglaw firm where the school has this sort of placement (which very well may be the case, but I'm wondering if someone with knowledge of the market could comment...)

Sure. There may well be a few others in other firms. Is there a problem with the LST report you cited?

The thing with lower-ranked schools is it's not that no one can ever get biglaw coming out of them. It's that if your odds are, say, 23.1%*, and the school costs $19,732.50 per *semester*, it might not be the best investment.

*percent of students in law firm, attorney jobs according to LST. Most of those are in firms of 2-10 attorneys.


i just got the impression that some schools were such TTTT garbage that no one could ever get a respectable V100 biglaw gig, not even if you were first in your class....i guess there's just always exceptions

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:i just got the impression that some schools were such TTTT garbage that no one could ever get a respectable V100 biglaw gig, not even if you were first in your class....i guess there's just always exceptions

No, the odd few people will be able to do this. Like I said, the issue is whether you want to spend a lot of money to gamble that you will be one of them. For gambling/practical purposes, you should assume you're not.

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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:49 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:i just got the impression that some schools were such TTTT garbage that no one could ever get a respectable V100 biglaw gig, not even if you were first in your class....i guess there's just always exceptions

No, the odd few people will be able to do this. Like I said, the issue is whether you want to spend a lot of money to gamble that you will be one of them. For gambling/practical purposes, you should assume you're not.


This is really true of even the WORST law schools? District of Columbia law school is getting a few kids in biglaw?

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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby Pokemon » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:i just got the impression that some schools were such TTTT garbage that no one could ever get a respectable V100 biglaw gig, not even if you were first in your class....i guess there's just always exceptions

No, the odd few people will be able to do this. Like I said, the issue is whether you want to spend a lot of money to gamble that you will be one of them. For gambling/practical purposes, you should assume you're not.


This is really true of even the WORST law schools? District of Columbia law school is getting a few kids in biglaw?



YES!!!! There should be nothing shocking about this. Check out how many TTT schools are on Cravath's site.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:55 pm

First, stop posting anonymously, it's annoying and it's not doing a lot to hide the fact that you're probably a 0L.

Second, you seem to be misunderstanding. There are a few people in any law school who might be able to get a biglaw job—as in, they could get a biglaw job if they went to any law school. Connections, really exceptional work experience/personal background, a genius at taking law exams, etc. (Plus probably a lot of luck in the vast majority of cases.) However, few if any biglaw firms will actively recruit at schools like UDC or Florida Coastal. They're not going, "Okay, it's August, time to hire 1-5 Florida Coastal grads." The school is not doing anything at all to get them on the board. But some people are able to get these jobs in spite of their school.

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buns
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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby buns » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:01 pm

I know of a guy who did his law degree at Detroit-Mercy pre-ITE, and got a V50 gig and is one of the 2-3 to basically ever get NYC biglaw.... He is still a straight up legend at the school to this day, and they have a school newspaper article about him getting the job framed and displayed in the school's hallway.

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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby Pokemon » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:01 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:First, stop posting anonymously, it's annoying and it's not doing a lot to hide the fact that you're probably a 0L.

Second, you seem to be misunderstanding. There are a few people in any law school who might be able to get a biglaw job—as in, they could get a biglaw job if they went to any law school. Connections, really exceptional work experience/personal background, a genius at taking law exams, etc. (Plus probably a lot of luck in the vast majority of cases.) However, few if any biglaw firms will actively recruit at schools like UDC or Florida Coastal. They're not going, "Okay, it's August, time to hire 1-5 Florida Coastal grads." The school is not doing anything at all to get them on the board. But some people are able to get these jobs in spite of their school.


Exactly. The normal student from those schools will not make it to biglaw. In the same manner that the normal Russian will not be a billionaire. Nevertheless, there are a few making it to biglaw, in the same way that there are (more than) a few Russian billionaires.

The mistake a lot of not-so-smart people make is say "check out mr. usmanov, he is russian and a billionaire, thus by being russian you have some chances towards being a billionaire." In the law school setting this is translated:"oooooh, check out Ms. Doe, she is at Cravath and from a TTTT, thus if I go to that TTTT I will have a chance to be at Cravath."

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hephaestus
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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby hephaestus » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:08 pm

Some people that buy lottery tickets win. It doesn't make them a good investment.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby JusticeHarlan » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Holland & Knight lists 4 Florida Coastal associates in the Jacksonville office....and most of them arent even magna cum laude or first in class....according to LST 2011 report, only 1 graduate of the school got a job in a firm with 501+ more attorneys....even if H&K is the biggest firm in Jacksonville, something still doesnt add up...someone i know is considering attending this school and mentioned this to me, don't mean to sound like a jerk or anything, but I'm just very curious for an explanation if anyone has one.

http://www.hklaw.com/professionals/uniG ... nalResults

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... &show=NALP
Yeesh, how hard is it to look up attorneys and see when they were admitted to the bar? These four were admitted in 2008, 2010 (but graduated in 2009), 2007, and 2008 (if those links don't work, try the search here yourself).

Could you not do 5 minutes of research? What is so difficult to grasp here? Why are you anonymous? What year of law school are you in?

09042014
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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby 09042014 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:13 pm

Big law in cities usually hire a handful from their local TTT's. Ranking TTT's in to TTT and untouchable TTT is mostly a TLS flame.

But we are talking about top 1% or so for most TTTs. It isn't a relevant outcome.

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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:54 pm

JusticeHarlan wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Holland & Knight lists 4 Florida Coastal associates in the Jacksonville office....and most of them arent even magna cum laude or first in class....according to LST 2011 report, only 1 graduate of the school got a job in a firm with 501+ more attorneys....even if H&K is the biggest firm in Jacksonville, something still doesnt add up...someone i know is considering attending this school and mentioned this to me, don't mean to sound like a jerk or anything, but I'm just very curious for an explanation if anyone has one.

http://www.hklaw.com/professionals/uniG ... nalResults

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... &show=NALP
Yeesh, how hard is it to look up attorneys and see when they were admitted to the bar? These four were admitted in 2008, 2010 (but graduated in 2009), 2007, and 2008 (if those links don't work, try the search here yourself).

Could you not do 5 minutes of research? What is so difficult to grasp here? Why are you anonymous? What year of law school are you in?


anonymous because i was talking about specific attorneys at a specific firm...i think thats a proper use, if not i apologize....i am a 1L and actually didnt know that you could look up specific people on state bar websites, thanks for the info.

i guess the whole point of this thread is that yes, i clearly understand that there are going to be people who win the lottery at these types of TTTT schools, but i was under the impression that there were some schools (i.e., Cooley, New England, Florida Coastal, District of Columbia, etc.) where the name and reputation of the school alone are enough to keep everyone, no matter the statistics, from certain jobs. some biglaw firms must just be more open-minded than others, i suppose. it would be better if this were the case, so people would avoid these schools altogether...instead, as you all mentioned, people like my friend see the 1 or 2 people who have made it and think they can make it too...causing them to foolishly enroll

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dailygrind
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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby dailygrind » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:38 pm

I've gotten a few reports on this thread, so I'm going to clarify that this user does appear to be a law student, so their use of the employment forum is justified. Also, though I seriously doubt their use of anon was justified, it was not abusive, and I am therefore not going to out them.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby JusticeHarlan » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:53 am

Bumping this because the new NLJ 250 numbers now provide breakdowns by how many grads each school sent to which firms. For the class of 2012, Florida Coastal had 1 reported grad, out of a class of 453, go to an NLJ 250 firm (Adams & Reese). There is a general question about whether NLJ 250 numbers are under-reporting from firms, and if 250 firms is the right number, but for now that's a 0.22% chance of getting biglaw, and should somewhat answer questions about how well this school places in these kinds of jobs.

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androstan
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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby androstan » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:38 pm

buns wrote:I know of a guy who did his law degree at Detroit-Mercy pre-ITE, and got a V50 gig and is one of the 2-3 to basically ever get NYC biglaw.... He is still a straight up legend at the school to this day, and they have a school newspaper article about him getting the job framed and displayed in the school's hallway.


This is sad and pathetic.

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buns
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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby buns » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:08 pm

androstan wrote:
buns wrote:I know of a guy who did his law degree at Detroit-Mercy pre-ITE, and got a V50 gig and is one of the 2-3 to basically ever get NYC biglaw.... He is still a straight up legend at the school to this day, and they have a school newspaper article about him getting the job framed and displayed in the school's hallway.


This is sad and pathetic.


Pretty sure this is the article, not 100% certain though: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1179881 ... earch.html

Still crazy how this was such a big deal pre-ITE.

BenJ
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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby BenJ » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:i just got the impression that some schools were such TTTT garbage that no one could ever get a respectable V100 biglaw gig, not even if you were first in your class....i guess there's just always exceptions

No, the odd few people will be able to do this. Like I said, the issue is whether you want to spend a lot of money to gamble that you will be one of them. For gambling/practical purposes, you should assume you're not.


This is really true of even the WORST law schools? District of Columbia law school is getting a few kids in biglaw?


Even Cooley had one grad (out of 999) in the NLJ 250 in the class of 2012, according to the NLJ numbers. Granted, the firm in question is Morgan & Morgan, a personal injury firm and hardly what we'd usually call "biglaw", but still. (UDC is not listed and thus apparently had no grads in the NLJ 250 in 2012.)
Last edited by BenJ on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:52 pm

Reminder: Most T14 students have more offers than entire TTT schools. LOL

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: How is this even possible?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:13 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Reminder: Most T14 students have more offers than entire TTT schools. LOL

Probably more interviews, too.




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