Reneging this late in the game

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If I get an offer from a biglaw firm, should I reneg on the midlaw firm?

Are you kidding!? Dump the midlaw firm and never look back at that TT cesspool.
45
88%
You're retarded for considering leaving midlaw glory. Stay put, otherwise your legal career is over.
6
12%
 
Total votes: 51

Anonymous User
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Reneging this late in the game

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:06 pm

Here's the situation:

During Early Fall OCI I maxed out on screener interviews, and out of those only ended up with three KBs at big law firms. None of them worked out. I think it was due to a huge grade drop between fall and spring semesters.

During Regular Fall OCI I accepted a position at a midlaw firm for half the summer. The firm starts associates out at around $75k. But here's the kicker, they hired 5 SAs and have explicitly said that they will only make offers to 1-2 at the end of the summer.

Last week I had an interview with a biglaw firm coming to our Spring OCI. I'm not presuming that I'll end up with an offer from them, but I think the interview went really well, and of all the applicants they will have for spring OCI, I wouldn't be surprised if I looked the best on paper. They only offer SAs for the entire summer and don't allow splitting.

If I end up with an offer from the big firm, then I would find it incredibly difficult not to reneg on the midlaw firm. Factors encouraging reneging include: (1) $85k pay increase, (2) high offer ratio, and (3) having a job for the entire summer. Factors against reneging include: (1) the midlaw firm is known for getting really pissed at applicants who cancel callbacks, so I imagine they would probably contact CDO and complain, (2) damage to reputation.

So, if you got the offer from the biglaw firm, would you trade-up for a larger salary and much higher chance of a full time job, or would you bite the bullet, work for half as much with a small chance of full time employment so that you don't damage your reputation?

Second, would you tell the biglaw firm about the midlaw firm? The firms are in the same city, but it's a major market and most attorneys don't recognize the name of the midlaw firm. They are in completely different practice areas and located in different parts of the city.

Anonymous User
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:10 pm

My t-14 totally sucks. Not a single biglaw firm came to spring oci...

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kalvano
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby kalvano » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:But here's the kicker, they hired 5 SAs and have explicitly said that they will only make offers to 1-2 at the end of the summer.


First, fuck them.

Second, it sounds like you would be doing them a favor.

Third, fuck them.

sparty99
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby sparty99 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:15 pm

Is this something you really even need to think about? Take the money and run....Fuck them and your Career Services Office....

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dingbat
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby dingbat » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:23 pm

I would take the biglaw offer, because if the offer rate at the midlaw firm. If asked, tell the biglaw firm you have an offer, but you're under no obligation to volunteer the information.

Maybe you can talk to the career service ofgice on his best to turn down the midlaw firm, but, if the firm doesn't understand, well, fuck them.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote: (1) the midlaw firm is known for getting really pissed at applicants who cancel callbacks, so I imagine they would probably contact CDO and complain

The reputation stuff isn't a complete non-concern, but honestly if the above is true, then this firm sounds like it's run by a bunch of wieners and you should grab the opportunity to go elsewhere if it comes up.

Edit: "the above" meaning the part about getting pissed off for canceling callbacks. Not a good sign if the place gets its panties in a bunch over something that routine.

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Uncle.Joe
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby Uncle.Joe » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:55 pm

Horse this is cart, he got here before you.

Anonymous User
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:25 pm

Having your career services like you more is not going to help pay off your debt, do what's right for you. My dean of career services tried to push me to apply more midlaw than biglaw to help their employment statistics (I don't work in a legal role) and I flat out told her I wasn't taking a pay cut from my current job (which led her to trying to convince me that I should consider it even though I have a family and mortgage). Biglaw was already going to be a lateral move financially with more hours worked but I did feel a little disillusioned by their advice that was so blatantly in trying to pad the US News ranking rather than my own personal interests that I decided I wouldn't work with the dean any more and went instead to other people in the OCS after that meeting. Turns out I was able to land biglaw anyway without their help and against their advice (due to my grades).

Your only going through school to get a better job, your already in school why do you care about the ranking after you get a job, if you really feel bad about it, donate to the school after you make enough to make a difference.

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20130312
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby 20130312 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:31 pm

Step 1: Acquire biglaw offer
Step 2:
Anonymous User wrote:(1) $85k pay increase, (2) high offer ratio, and (3) having a job for the entire summer

Step 3: Profit

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cinephile
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby cinephile » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:35 pm

sparty99 wrote:Is this something you really even need to think about? Take the money and run....Fuck them and your Career Services Office....

keg411
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby keg411 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:16 pm

Definitely re-neg if you get BigLaw (because of the offer rate), but give your OCS a heads up since the midlaw firm sounds like they are full assholes and you want to try and minimize the "damage" (and explicitly emphasize what the mid-law firm said about the offer rate; and if your OCS gives you any pushback, fuck them and do what you want anyway).

09042014
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby 09042014 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:33 pm

keg411 wrote:Definitely re-neg if you get BigLaw (because of the offer rate), but give your OCS a heads up since the midlaw firm sounds like they are full assholes and you want to try and minimize the "damage" (and explicitly emphasize what the mid-law firm said about the offer rate; and if your OCS gives you any pushback, fuck them and do what you want anyway).


+1

And if the firm gives you lip, tell them that they only plan on offering less than 50%. If they can't understand that, fuck them.

If these firms aren't even in the same city, I wouldn't worry at all. If they are all in the same legal market, I'd watch out a bit.

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okinawa
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby okinawa » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:49 pm

Are they in different cities? There is always the, "family/personal situation" which arises and forces you to be in a different city.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby BarbellDreams » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:08 pm

As someone who was royaly screwed over by my SA firm, you need to look out for yourself because the firm is always, and I mean ALWAYS, looking out for themselves and not for you. Take the biglaw job if you get it.

Anonymous User
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:15 pm

OP here, thanks everyone for your input. I'll update the thread if I get the biglaw offer.

okinawa wrote:Are they in different cities? There is always the, "family/personal situation" which arises and forces you to be in a different city.


Unfortunately, they are in the same city, however in completely different practice areas.

Anonymous User
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:45 pm

do what is right for your career, NOT do what is right for your career service office. I find career service office often very selfish, not looking out for the best interests of candidates.

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Georgia Avenue
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby Georgia Avenue » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:03 am

Take Biglaw. As said many times on this forum, CSO cares about their priorities before yours. They care about reneging because it can hurt their relationship with firms, not because of you getting a bad professional reputation. What are they going to do, anyway - make you go work for the Midlaw firm? Call the Biglaw firm and have them pull your offer?

Anonymous User
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:45 am

Wow, I wish I would have posted this question last week. Not the OP, but in a very similar situation and just cancelled interview with bigger firm because career services told me it was the move I HAD to make. Same market, small/mid law firm paying 75K vs. Market Paying firm that I realllllllly would want to work for. I didn't get either opportunity through CSO though, and they did seem to genuinely believe that if the new firm found out I was renegging, it would hurt my reputation enough to make me no longer attractive to the new firm.

Did I goof bad??

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kalvano
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby kalvano » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:53 am

Yes, you goofed. Fuck Career Services. As has been pointed out, you aren't their primary concern, the school is. Don't let them make life-altering decisions for you.

KidStuddi
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby KidStuddi » Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:Factors against reneging include: (1) the midlaw firm is known for getting really pissed at applicants who cancel callbacks, so I imagine they would probably contact CDO and complain, (2) damage to reputation.


I know everyone tells you that your professional career starts the moment you enter law school and to be on your best behavior and all that jazz, but come on. Your reputation? The firm you're potentially going to work for gets pissed at people for canceling callbacks and told you that they're only bringing you in to have a veritable fight to the death this summer and you're really worried that you're going to damage your sterling reputation by walking away from them? First of all, do you really think you're going to garner a great reputation working for these people who apparently are known for being assholes? Second, if you do stay, do really think you'll be the winner of the battle royale this summer given that you're clearly spineless? It's something you might survive if not for the fact that you're being judged by a group of assholes who "get really pissed" when someone cancels a fucking job interview when they're no longer looking for a job. Do you really think they truly value meekness?

Anonymous User wrote:During Early Fall OCI I maxed out on screener interviews, and out of those only ended up with three KBs at big law firms. None of them worked out. I think it was due to a huge grade drop between fall and spring semesters.


If your real life personality betrays the same incredible insecurity and passive nature that is on display in the rest of your post here, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that was a big part of your poor OCI performance. You're trying to get hired as a lawyer. We get paid to be adversarial. Toughen up or people are going to walk all over you in this profession.

Anonymous User wrote:Wow, I wish I would have posted this question last week. Not the OP, but in a very similar situation and just cancelled interview with bigger firm because career services told me it was the move I HAD to make. Same market, small/mid law firm paying 75K vs. Market Paying firm that I realllllllly would want to work for. I didn't get either opportunity through CSO though, and they did seem to genuinely believe that if the new firm found out I was renegging, it would hurt my reputation enough to make me no longer attractive to the new firm.


Maybe this is what the desperation of the job hunt does to the way people think, but really, entertaining the notion of turning down an extra 85k a year and a far higher chance of employment because you're worried someone might scream at you or talk poorly about you to others? If you're a guy: grow a pair. If you're a girl: still grow a pair and recognize that you are exhibit #123141231 of why there are so few female partners in BigLaw.
Last edited by KidStuddi on Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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kalvano
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby kalvano » Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:06 am

KidStuddi wrote:If you're a girl: still grow a pair and recognize that you are exhibit #123141231 of why there are so few female partners in BigLaw.


Come on.

KidStuddi
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby KidStuddi » Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:09 am

kalvano wrote:
KidStuddi wrote:If you're a girl: still grow a pair and recognize that you are exhibit #123141231 of why there are so few female partners in BigLaw.


Come on.


I've heard it from the lips of many female partners. I feel pretty comfortable with it.

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romothesavior
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby romothesavior » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:13 pm

KidStuddi wrote:
kalvano wrote:
KidStuddi wrote:If you're a girl: still grow a pair and recognize that you are exhibit #123141231 of why there are so few female partners in BigLaw.

Come on.

I've heard it from the lips of many female partners. I feel pretty comfortable with it.

I agreed with most of the substance of your post, but this was uncalled for. Enjoy a timeout.

OP, I would have no trouble reneging, and I wouldn't mention my previous offer unless you are asked point blank about it or something. Just interview, give it your all, and if you get the job and decide you want it, I think you should be willing to take it. This firm sounds like a joke anyways.

sparty99
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby sparty99 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Wow, I wish I would have posted this question last week. Not the OP, but in a very similar situation and just cancelled interview with bigger firm because career services told me it was the move I HAD to make. Same market, small/mid law firm paying 75K vs. Market Paying firm that I realllllllly would want to work for. I didn't get either opportunity through CSO though, and they did seem to genuinely believe that if the new firm found out I was renegging, it would hurt my reputation enough to make me no longer attractive to the new firm.

Did I goof bad??


You fucked up. Hard. You better call the big law firm.

zomginternets
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Re: Reneging this late in the game

Postby zomginternets » Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:30 am

I'm usually anti-reneging, but in this situation I would. In addition to all of the reasons stated above, exit options out of biglaw are just infinitely superior to the average midlaw firm. This decision will change the trajectory of your entire career, so don't worry about one (douchey-sounding) firm getting butthurt.




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