Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

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Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:37 pm

So the subject line pretty much says it. When I graduate, I'll have 1 year at a local DA's office with several trials under my belt, 1 1/2 years of law school trial team experience, with two external mock trial competition wins, and six months at the US Attorneys Office doing legal research and writing... Grades are average. School is T1. 3L. Anonymous cuz I post here and I'm an awkward and shitty braggart.

I now want to move and live in DFW, TX. For a law student/recent grad, I'm very good at trials/evidence/litigation-- can I get a job at a prosecutors office in DFW area? Please respond only if you know about DFW or about the portability or non-portability of my specific talents.

My thought is that I may be in trouble because at the DA office I interned at most of the hires were former interns/people the DA's knew... Hopefully I'm wrong and I have a marketable skill.

(side Q: is US Attorneys Office "prestigious?" will it help me get employment generally because it is hard to get and looks good on a resume? during my time there I had no sense of this, only takeaway was that this office didn't really hire out of LS)

anon168
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Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby anon168 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:So the subject line pretty much says it. When I graduate, I'll have 1 year at a local DA's office with several trials under my belt, 1 1/2 years of law school trial team experience, with two external mock trial competition wins, and six months at the US Attorneys Office doing legal research and writing... Grades are average. School is T1. 3L. Anonymous cuz I post here and I'm an awkward and shitty braggart.

I now want to move and live in DFW, TX. For a law student/recent grad, I'm very good at trials/evidence/litigation-- can I get a job at a prosecutors office in DFW area? Please respond only if you know about DFW or about the portability or non-portability of my specific talents.

My thought is that I may be in trouble because at the DA office I interned at most of the hires were former interns/people the DA's knew... Hopefully I'm wrong and I have a marketable skill.

(side Q: is US Attorneys Office "prestigious?" will it help me get employment generally because it is hard to get and looks good on a resume? during my time there I had no sense of this, only takeaway was that this office didn't really hire out of LS)


Mock trial champ?

Batting practice stars rarely make the Majors based soley on what they did in the batting cage.

Jeremyl
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Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby Jeremyl » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:55 am

There is a good thread on here titled "how to be a prosecution/pd gunner" or something like that. I suggest looking there, but I can go ahead and tell you mock trial and court experience is definitely good.

I've been looking to get to DFW myself. PM me if you want to talk about specific offices.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby somewhatwayward » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:47 am

How far is your school from Dallas? Is your school well-known? It seems like these things would matter less to a DA than to a big law firm, but regional schools usually have an advantage in local government hiring. If your T1 is like Hastings or American or something, I don't think you will have an edge in Dallas as compared to T4 TX schools. Why aren't you trying to get a job with the organizations you have interned for (surely some of the people there must have become aware of your preternatural litigation skills - sorry, ribbing you a little there because I think you are overestimating your skills and value....they probably add up to maybe two months on the job, if that)? In all seriousness, though, if DA's offices usually hire from their intern programs, why not try to get hired where you have already interned and then try to move to Dallas after you get some more experience? Or, if that is not possible, are your bosses willing to go to bat for you? Do they know anyone in Dallas?

If you are close to Dallas now, you should probably start networking there by going to bar events and maybe CLEs that would attract prosecutors. Don't immediately ask if they know of any openings after you meet someone in prosecution. Instead ask if they will come to coffee to give you some advice about how to break into the field. At the very least you should learn useful info from the coffee with them....at best they will ask for your resume and pass it onto some people they know. If the first person doesn't work out, move on to the next. If getting hired to do prosecution is about connections, it seems like you need to start making them ASAP.

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Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:03 am

You'll definitely need to network with local attorneys as much as possible. I looked into some offices in the suburbs of Dallas, which mostly consist of ADAs who left Dallas County for suburbia. The vibe I got was that networking and ties were extremely important. Almost all of the ADAs we're from local schools, and most from TTTs. Texas DA offices only hire after you've passed the Texas bar, which might be less attractive to you if you have other options from offices that will hire before results.

As far as your USAO experience, it probably helped your writing skills but also probably did nothing for your job prospects as far as an ADA position in Texas goes. Sometimes state prosecutors don't like USAO experience because it makes them wonder if you'll stick with the local office rather than jump ship to the Feds.

Mock trial is always good because it shows you're somewhat familiar with courtroom procedure. The fact that you've real trials is probably more important. I'm not interning in Texas, but at my office now (I'm a 3L) I've heard several ADAs make fun of mock trial students who pretend like they know what they're doing because they've had a few mock trials.

In summary, provided you can express a reason for Texas and show some ties to support that, you probably have a decent shot at the large metro offices. The less ties you have, the harder it will be. I was completely ignored when trying to reach out to the Dallas DAs office and my fiancée and her family have lived in Dallas for many years.

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Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You'll definitely need to network with local attorneys as much as possible. I looked into some offices in the suburbs of Dallas, which mostly consist of ADAs who left Dallas County for suburbia. The vibe I got was that networking and ties were extremely important. Almost all of the ADAs we're from local schools, and most from TTTs. Texas DA offices only hire after you've passed the Texas bar, which might be less attractive to you if you have other options from offices that will hire before results.

As far as your USAO experience, it probably helped your writing skills but also probably did nothing for your job prospects as far as an ADA position in Texas goes. Sometimes state prosecutors don't like USAO experience because it makes them wonder if you'll stick with the local office rather than jump ship to the Feds.

Mock trial is always good because it shows you're somewhat familiar with courtroom procedure. The fact that you've real trials is probably more important. I'm not interning in Texas, but at my office now (I'm a 3L) I've heard several ADAs make fun of mock trial students who pretend like they know what they're doing because they've had a few mock trials.

In summary, provided you can express a reason for Texas and show some ties to support that, you probably have a decent shot at the large metro offices. The less ties you have, the harder it will be. I was completely ignored when trying to reach out to the Dallas DAs office and my fiancée and her family have lived in Dallas for many years.


OP here. Your summary is pretty optimistic. I like that. As far as the mock trial stuff goes, it is not that I'm someone who "knows what they are doing" compared to real DA's, it is that I've demonstrated that I'm really good at giving openings/closings. Any mock trial champion and most trial team members are way better public speakers than your run of the mill DA or PD. I'm on the trial team here and I've seen dozens of trials at my DA office-- its undeniable, and it is not just because the mock-trialers have more prep time.

I lived in Dallas for 12 months about five years ago, and my SO is from Texas, but not Dallas. My undergrad University is only about 5 hours away... My law school is like 15 hours away... Basically my ties suck, but at least I can make an argument.

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Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:55 pm

anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So the subject line pretty much says it. When I graduate, I'll have 1 year at a local DA's office with several trials under my belt, 1 1/2 years of law school trial team experience, with two external mock trial competition wins, and six months at the US Attorneys Office doing legal research and writing... Grades are average. School is T1. 3L. Anonymous cuz I post here and I'm an awkward and shitty braggart.

I now want to move and live in DFW, TX. For a law student/recent grad, I'm very good at trials/evidence/litigation-- can I get a job at a prosecutors office in DFW area? Please respond only if you know about DFW or about the portability or non-portability of my specific talents.

My thought is that I may be in trouble because at the DA office I interned at most of the hires were former interns/people the DA's knew... Hopefully I'm wrong and I have a marketable skill.

(side Q: is US Attorneys Office "prestigious?" will it help me get employment generally because it is hard to get and looks good on a resume? during my time there I had no sense of this, only takeaway was that this office didn't really hire out of LS)


Mock trial champ?

Batting practice stars rarely make the Majors based soley on what they did in the batting cage.


Wow. You're a moron.

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Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:01 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:How far is your school from Dallas? Is your school well-known? It seems like these things would matter less to a DA than to a big law firm, but regional schools usually have an advantage in local government hiring. If your T1 is like Hastings or American or something, I don't think you will have an edge in Dallas as compared to T4 TX schools.


OP here. It's a state school that people have heard of. There were only like 50 grads in DFW per martindale, so no, it is definitely not a local school.

somewhatwayward wrote:Why aren't you trying to get a job with the organizations you have interned for (surely some of the people there must have become aware of your preternatural litigation skills - sorry, ribbing you a little there because I think you are overestimating your skills and value....they probably add up to maybe two months on the job, if that)? In all seriousness, though, if DA's offices usually hire from their intern programs, why not try to get hired where you have already interned and then try to move to Dallas after you get some more experience? Or, if that is not possible, are your bosses willing to go to bat for you? Do they know anyone in Dallas?


All this is good advice but I'm not taking it. I'd love to stay but I think I'm going to leave, DFW is #1 target. I do believe I will have a bunch of good rec letters, both from profs and ADAs. I already have some in fact.

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Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby Jeremyl » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote: I'm on the trial team here and I've seen dozens of trials at my DA office-- its undeniable, and it is not just because the mock-trialers have more prep time.


Wait, have you actually done trials like you suggested in your OP, or have you just observed them? A lot of applicants won't have actual trial experience because you can't practice as a student in Texas without a 3l bar card. If you just observed, then I wouldn't count that as making you more competitive or as having a "marketable skill."

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Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:40 pm

Jeremyl wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: I'm on the trial team here and I've seen dozens of trials at my DA office-- its undeniable, and it is not just because the mock-trialers have more prep time.


Wait, have you actually done trials like you suggested in your OP, or have you just observed them? A lot of applicants won't have actual trial experience because you can't practice as a student in Texas without a 3l bar card. If you just observed, then I wouldn't count that as making you more competitive or as having a "marketable skill."


I've seen dozens of trials at the DA office and have done three. Opens, Directs, Crosses, Closes. I was technically second chair but as you can see I did the whole trial. I won all three, but to be fair they were really easy DUI cases.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby somewhatwayward » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote: As far as the mock trial stuff goes, it is not that I'm someone who "knows what they are doing" compared to real DA's, it is that I've demonstrated that I'm really good at giving openings/closings. Any mock trial champion and most trial team members are way better public speakers than your run of the mill DA or PD. I'm on the trial team here and I've seen dozens of trials at my DA office-- its undeniable, and it is not just because the mock-trialers have more prep time.


You may have some special talent; I don't know. But what I do know is if you come into interviews with this kind of attitude (I am better than the people currently working in this office because of my mock trial experience), it will be off-putting. There is a reason people are giving you flak in this thread. Sure, you want to be confident, but you also want to show that you are someone who knows his/her limitations, doesn't always thing s/he is right, and understands what it means to be the low man on the totem pole. The latter qualities are probably more important in new entry-level hires than their knowledge of the rules of evidence (which differ by state anyway - are you familiar with TX's?) or their ability to give a convincing closing argument.

I also think you should consider applying outside of Dallas. Dallas can remain your first choice, but legal hiring is a numbers game. The more bites at the apple, the better...plus, you'll get more interview practice. I just can't see a downside to it.

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Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:18 pm

I had the sense to post this anon, but you think I'd be an arrogant dick in an interview? The point here is to take the premise as true and give advice if you're so positioned.

Ill def apply to all the suburbs, colony,mcKinney, burleson.

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Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:20 pm

Why is interning with the US Attorneys Office good? Thoughts?

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Rocío
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Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby Rocío » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
OP here. Your summary is pretty optimistic. I like that. As far as the mock trial stuff goes, it is not that I'm someone who "knows what they are doing" compared to real DA's, it is that I've demonstrated that I'm really good at giving openings/closings. Any mock trial champion and most trial team members are way better public speakers than your run of the mill DA or PD. I'm on the trial team here and I've seen dozens of trials at my DA office-- its undeniable, and it is not just because the mock-trialers have more prep time.

I lived in Dallas for 12 months about five years ago, and my SO is from Texas, but not Dallas. My undergrad University is only about 5 hours away... My law school is like 15 hours away... Basically my ties suck, but at least I can make an argument.


Friendly word of advice from someone who is currently a PD at a major metropolitan office and who went through the interviewing cycle last year - do NOT compare your skills to practicing DAs in interviews unless you want to make a complete ass out of yourself. For instance, Miami is famous for asking interviewees to rate their cross-examining skills on a 1-10 scale. When I was asked this question, I humbly declined to grade myself, no matter how hard they pressed. Other students made the naive decision to respond that they were an "8 or 9," only to have one of the Miami lawyers challenge them to an off-the-cuff court simulation, only to come out completely humiliated and (rightfully so) knocked down several notches. If you have won competitions, fantastic - let that speak for itself on your résumé, and be prepared to discuss your perceived strengths and weaknesses based on your *admittedly* limited experience.

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Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:11 pm

Rocío wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
OP here. Your summary is pretty optimistic. I like that. As far as the mock trial stuff goes, it is not that I'm someone who "knows what they are doing" compared to real DA's, it is that I've demonstrated that I'm really good at giving openings/closings. Any mock trial champion and most trial team members are way better public speakers than your run of the mill DA or PD. I'm on the trial team here and I've seen dozens of trials at my DA office-- its undeniable, and it is not just because the mock-trialers have more prep time.

I lived in Dallas for 12 months about five years ago, and my SO is from Texas, but not Dallas. My undergrad University is only about 5 hours away... My law school is like 15 hours away... Basically my ties suck, but at least I can make an argument.


Friendly word of advice from someone who is currently a PD at a major metropolitan office and who went through the interviewing cycle last year - do NOT compare your skills to practicing DAs in interviews unless you want to make a complete ass out of yourself. For instance, Miami is famous for asking interviewees to rate their cross-examining skills on a 1-10 scale. When I was asked this question, I humbly declined to grade myself, no matter how hard they pressed. Other students made the naive decision to respond that they were an "8 or 9," only to have one of the Miami lawyers challenge them to an off-the-cuff court simulation, only to come out completely humiliated and (rightfully so) knocked down several notches. If you have won competitions, fantastic - let that speak for itself on your résumé, and be prepared to discuss your perceived strengths and weaknesses based on your *admittedly* limited experience.


I am very humble in interviews (and IRL). Thanks for the advice. I'm just wondering if being good at trials (for a law student) is a marketable skill.

I know some experienced pros who are outstanding on cross, even with just seconds of prep time. They order the leading Q's in their heads and deliver them on the spot. Really, really impressive. I cannot do that, at all. That said, give me time to prep and I look good. Better than 98% of law students (not saying too much, chill, only 15-20% of law students even try mock-trial). Also, maybe not in Miami, but better than a lot of the local attorneys I see around here. Most people just don't spend much time in the courtroom; its a very niche area.

anon168
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Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby anon168 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So the subject line pretty much says it. When I graduate, I'll have 1 year at a local DA's office with several trials under my belt, 1 1/2 years of law school trial team experience, with two external mock trial competition wins, and six months at the US Attorneys Office doing legal research and writing... Grades are average. School is T1. 3L. Anonymous cuz I post here and I'm an awkward and shitty braggart.

I now want to move and live in DFW, TX. For a law student/recent grad, I'm very good at trials/evidence/litigation-- can I get a job at a prosecutors office in DFW area? Please respond only if you know about DFW or about the portability or non-portability of my specific talents.

My thought is that I may be in trouble because at the DA office I interned at most of the hires were former interns/people the DA's knew... Hopefully I'm wrong and I have a marketable skill.

(side Q: is US Attorneys Office "prestigious?" will it help me get employment generally because it is hard to get and looks good on a resume? during my time there I had no sense of this, only takeaway was that this office didn't really hire out of LS)


Mock trial champ?

Batting practice stars rarely make the Majors based soley on what they did in the batting cage.


Wow. You're a moron.


Look, I don't want to start a flame war with you because you're obviously posting here looking for advice.

So, if you will be so kind, let me give you some. If you have the same attitude going into any ADA interview that you seem to exude in your post, you'll get shot down quicker than you can say, "But I was mock trial champ at my school!"

It's great that you did well in mock trial competitions at your school, it's also great that you did several DUI trials, but please do not go into an interview leading with those credentials. It would be like leading with the proverbial chin.

First, no one really cares that you did well in a mock trial competition. Put it on your resume, and if someone asks you about it, certainly discuss it and explain how it makes you a qualified candidate. But do not go into an interview with the attitude of "hey, you know, I was mock trial champ at my school and I am now totally ready to be an ADA in your office."

Second, misdemeanor DUI trials aren't really trials. I've seen enough of them and have had several friends who were city prosecutors handle DUI "trials" to know basically they're glorified detention hearings, if that. Facts aren't really in dispute, you have one witness, usu. the cop, and the breathalyzer sample. If you can't do a DUI trial in under an hour, and get a conviction, then evolution has passed you by. That's just a long way of saying that if you go around touting your "trial experience" based on DUI trials to a seasoned prosecutor at the DAs office you'll get laughed out of the interview.

Save yourself the grief. Put all of your experience -- mock trials, DUI trials, etc -- on your resume and let them speak for themselves. Don't talk about them unless someone brings them up and never characterize your "mock trial championship" as a "portable talent" because it's neither a talent, nor very portable.

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Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:48 pm

anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So the subject line pretty much says it. When I graduate, I'll have 1 year at a local DA's office with several trials under my belt, 1 1/2 years of law school trial team experience, with two external mock trial competition wins, and six months at the US Attorneys Office doing legal research and writing... Grades are average. School is T1. 3L. Anonymous cuz I post here and I'm an awkward and shitty braggart.

I now want to move and live in DFW, TX. For a law student/recent grad, I'm very good at trials/evidence/litigation-- can I get a job at a prosecutors office in DFW area? Please respond only if you know about DFW or about the portability or non-portability of my specific talents.

My thought is that I may be in trouble because at the DA office I interned at most of the hires were former interns/people the DA's knew... Hopefully I'm wrong and I have a marketable skill.

(side Q: is US Attorneys Office "prestigious?" will it help me get employment generally because it is hard to get and looks good on a resume? during my time there I had no sense of this, only takeaway was that this office didn't really hire out of LS)


Mock trial champ?

Batting practice stars rarely make the Majors based soley on what they did in the batting cage.


Wow. You're a moron.


Look, I don't want to start a flame war with you because you're obviously posting here looking for advice.

So, if you will be so kind, let me give you some. If you have the same attitude going into any ADA interview that you seem to exude in your post, you'll get shot down quicker than you can say, "But I was mock trial champ at my school!"

It's great that you did well in mock trial competitions at your school, it's also great that you did several DUI trials, but please do not go into an interview leading with those credentials. It would be like leading with the proverbial chin.

First, no one really cares that you did well in a mock trial competition. Put it on your resume, and if someone asks you about it, certainly discuss it and explain how it makes you a qualified candidate. But do not go into an interview with the attitude of "hey, you know, I was mock trial champ at my school and I am now totally ready to be an ADA in your office."

Second, misdemeanor DUI trials aren't really trials. I've seen enough of them and have had several friends who were city prosecutors handle DUI "trials" to know basically they're glorified detention hearings, if that. Facts aren't really in dispute, you have one witness, usu. the cop, and the breathalyzer sample. If you can't do a DUI trial in under an hour, and get a conviction, then evolution has passed you by. That's just a long way of saying that if you go around touting your "trial experience" based on DUI trials to a seasoned prosecutor at the DAs office you'll get laughed out of the interview.

Save yourself the grief. Put all of your experience -- mock trials, DUI trials, etc -- on your resume and let them speak for themselves. Don't talk about them unless someone brings them up and never characterize your "mock trial championship" as a "portable talent" because it's neither a talent, nor very portable.


Hey now, DUI trials can be fun when the defense pulls out an expert and witnesses that saw/were in the car with the defendant. I've had a DUI trial last all day and into the following day as the jury deliberated for 5 hours.

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Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:16 pm

anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So the subject line pretty much says it. When I graduate, I'll have 1 year at a local DA's office with several trials under my belt, 1 1/2 years of law school trial team experience, with two external mock trial competition wins, and six months at the US Attorneys Office doing legal research and writing... Grades are average. School is T1. 3L. Anonymous cuz I post here and I'm an awkward and shitty braggart.

I now want to move and live in DFW, TX. For a law student/recent grad, I'm very good at trials/evidence/litigation-- can I get a job at a prosecutors office in DFW area? Please respond only if you know about DFW or about the portability or non-portability of my specific talents.

My thought is that I may be in trouble because at the DA office I interned at most of the hires were former interns/people the DA's knew... Hopefully I'm wrong and I have a marketable skill.

(side Q: is US Attorneys Office "prestigious?" will it help me get employment generally because it is hard to get and looks good on a resume? during my time there I had no sense of this, only takeaway was that this office didn't really hire out of LS)


Mock trial champ?

Batting practice stars rarely make the Majors based soley on what they did in the batting cage.


Wow. You're a moron.


Look, I don't want to start a flame war with you because you're obviously posting here looking for advice.

So, if you will be so kind, let me give you some. If you have the same attitude going into any ADA interview that you seem to exude in your post, you'll get shot down quicker than you can say, "But I was mock trial champ at my school!"

It's great that you did well in mock trial competitions at your school, it's also great that you did several DUI trials, but please do not go into an interview leading with those credentials. It would be like leading with the proverbial chin.

First, no one really cares that you did well in a mock trial competition. Put it on your resume, and if someone asks you about it, certainly discuss it and explain how it makes you a qualified candidate. But do not go into an interview with the attitude of "hey, you know, I was mock trial champ at my school and I am now totally ready to be an ADA in your office."

Second, misdemeanor DUI trials aren't really trials. I've seen enough of them and have had several friends who were city prosecutors handle DUI "trials" to know basically they're glorified detention hearings, if that. Facts aren't really in dispute, you have one witness, usu. the cop, and the breathalyzer sample. If you can't do a DUI trial in under an hour, and get a conviction, then evolution has passed you by. That's just a long way of saying that if you go around touting your "trial experience" based on DUI trials to a seasoned prosecutor at the DAs office you'll get laughed out of the interview.

Save yourself the grief. Put all of your experience -- mock trials, DUI trials, etc -- on your resume and let them speak for themselves. Don't talk about them unless someone brings them up and never characterize your "mock trial championship" as a "portable talent" because it's neither a talent, nor very portable.


What city was this in? I've tried DUI's in 3 different states (thank you student practice statutes/ post law school employment) and none of them looked like a glorified detention hearings. I'm genuinely curious, because the 3 states I've been have been wildly different.

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Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:10 pm

anon168 wrote:
Look, I don't want to start a flame war with you because you're obviously posting here looking for advice.


LOL. No one is buying that.

anon168 wrote:So, if you will be so kind, let me give you some. If you have the same attitude going into any ADA interview that you seem to exude in your post, you'll get shot down quicker than you can say, "But I was mock trial champ at my school!"


Again, you're a moron. As I've already said, I'm here posting anon because I'm aware of social contructs and the benefits of humility. You sound like a loser. Also, I didn't say they were mock trial tournaments at my school. They were both NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS. Yes, people in the trial world take notice of those, or at least the DA and US ATT office I interned at certainly did. Not going to brag about this in an interview-- try holding to competing ideas in your head at the same time-- but mock-trial wins at external competitions means you beat tons of others schools. You have no idea what you are talking about.

anon168 wrote:Second, misdemeanor DUI trials aren't really trials. I've seen enough of them and have had several friends who were city prosecutors handle DUI "trials" to know basically they're glorified detention hearings, if that. Facts aren't really in dispute, you have one witness, usu. the cop, and the breathalyzer sample. If you can't do a DUI trial in under an hour, and get a conviction, then evolution has passed you by. That's just a long way of saying that if you go around touting your "trial experience" based on DUI trials to a seasoned prosecutor at the DAs office you'll get laughed out of the interview.


As others have said, you have no idea what you are talking about. DUI trials are always refusals. There is no physical evidence. You direct the cop and the jail person and get out behavior, then you cross the dude and the wife and make them look like shitty liars. They are no bull-shit real trials.

anon168 wrote:Save yourself the grief. Put all of your experience -- mock trials, DUI trials, etc -- on your resume and let them speak for themselves. Don't talk about them unless someone brings them up and never characterize your "mock trial championship" as a "portable talent" because it's neither a talent, nor very portable.


You've obviously either never done mock-trial/real trials or you did mock trial during 1L and everyone laughed at you. I'm not at all sorry about this because you are a dick. You end your rant by saying I'm not talented or portable, but no where did you explain why not. That was the whole point of my post. Having people who actually know about trial lit tell me whether being good at trials (for a law student) would make me portable at DA offices. You clearly know nothing about this.

Jeremyl
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:47 am

Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby Jeremyl » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:23 pm

You sound like some annoying girl asking if something makes her look fat, knowing full well that it doesn't. Then you get mad when someone doesn't give you the compliment you were fishing for.

anon168
Posts: 920
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:36 pm

Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby anon168 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
anon168 wrote:
Look, I don't want to start a flame war with you because you're obviously posting here looking for advice.


LOL. No one is buying that.

anon168 wrote:So, if you will be so kind, let me give you some. If you have the same attitude going into any ADA interview that you seem to exude in your post, you'll get shot down quicker than you can say, "But I was mock trial champ at my school!"


Again, you're a moron. As I've already said, I'm here posting anon because I'm aware of social contructs and the benefits of humility. You sound like a loser. Also, I didn't say they were mock trial tournaments at my school. They were both NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS. Yes, people in the trial world take notice of those, or at least the DA and US ATT office I interned at certainly did. Not going to brag about this in an interview-- try holding to competing ideas in your head at the same time-- but mock-trial wins at external competitions means you beat tons of others schools. You have no idea what you are talking about.

anon168 wrote:Second, misdemeanor DUI trials aren't really trials. I've seen enough of them and have had several friends who were city prosecutors handle DUI "trials" to know basically they're glorified detention hearings, if that. Facts aren't really in dispute, you have one witness, usu. the cop, and the breathalyzer sample. If you can't do a DUI trial in under an hour, and get a conviction, then evolution has passed you by. That's just a long way of saying that if you go around touting your "trial experience" based on DUI trials to a seasoned prosecutor at the DAs office you'll get laughed out of the interview.


As others have said, you have no idea what you are talking about. DUI trials are always refusals. There is no physical evidence. You direct the cop and the jail person and get out behavior, then you cross the dude and the wife and make them look like shitty liars. They are no bull-shit real trials.

anon168 wrote:Save yourself the grief. Put all of your experience -- mock trials, DUI trials, etc -- on your resume and let them speak for themselves. Don't talk about them unless someone brings them up and never characterize your "mock trial championship" as a "portable talent" because it's neither a talent, nor very portable.


You've obviously either never done mock-trial/real trials or you did mock trial during 1L and everyone laughed at you. I'm not at all sorry about this because you are a dick. You end your rant by saying I'm not talented or portable, but no where did you explain why not. That was the whole point of my post. Having people who actually know about trial lit tell me whether being good at trials (for a law student) would make me portable at DA offices. You clearly know nothing about this.


You obviously know what you are doing, and what you are talking about. I've now seen the error in my ways, and advice.

Best of luck to you in law school and in your legal career.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22845
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:28 pm

It's a shame the OP doesn't realize s/he's talking to someone who's done trial lit at both biglaw the USAO.

Lord Randolph McDuff
Posts: 1587
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:37 pm

Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:32 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:It's a shame the OP doesn't realize s/he's talking to someone who's done trial lit at both biglaw the USAO.


Sounds like this person wouldn't know about DA hiring/how portable mock-trial would be.

I think OP's point is to only get feedback from people who know about this. Shes being a bitch back, but mr. biglawl bigshot came into this thread with nothing to add.

User was outed for anon abuse.

User avatar
iShotFirst
Posts: 460
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:13 am

Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby iShotFirst » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:36 pm

At the minimum, these accomplishments can put you ahead of other applicants, so I dont think they are anything to scoff at. Actual internship/externship in a DA's office will likely trump it, however.

I think this question really depends on the office. I have had several DA interviews, and I had two that specifically asked me about mock trial, why didnt you do it etc. Other offices didnt care when they saw my other experiences, including working in a DA's office.

But the ones that were really interested discounted my work experience because I hadn't done any trials at that point in time, and saw Mock Trial as legitimate, honest-to-goodness trial experience.

Of course, the attitude towards this and interview experiences in offices can vary wildly. I never had any question like that Miami crossexam question in the Miami interview, it was all hypos.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273348
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Mock-Trial Champ... Portable DA Opportunities??

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:46 am

I'll add in my 2 cents for what its worth. I'm a prosecutor in one of the bigger offices in the US. I don't know much about our hiring process, but in the class that started with me. All of us had some trial experience or mock trial experience. There's even a guy in my office who was like Mr. Mock trial, tons of awards and shit. He's told me that he thinks his mock trial experience helped him with structure, but really provided no true benefit into actually knowing how to try a case. It's a completely different world when you're given a nice neat packet with a bunch of witness statements and have lunch with your witness everyday; as opposed to having 200+ open cases and witnesses who don't answer phone calls and come to court high.




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