Do Gunners Ever Get There?

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:17 pm

There is no there there.

Anonymous User
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:18 pm

Maybe it works for some people, but the pursuit of career glory has always seemed like a black hole to me. Even after you finish #1, clerk SCOTUS, hell, sit on SCOTUS-- then what? What's the point of your shit? Who's going to stand by your death bed? Just my 2 cents but I think wondering about things like how you're going to surprise your girlfriend on valentines day or whether or not you've given enough support to your friend after his dad died, etc. will do much more for your long term happiness than wondering why you didn't finish #1 instead of top 1%. You have already obliterated the law school game, now go out there and crush the meaningful life game.

Also, you're definitely not out of the running to become a federal judge. I have heard from reliable sources that the process is extremely political. There are definitely plenty of federal judges running around that have credentials below what you already have. Don't sweat yourself, you're in the top .5% of law graduates out there.

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LeDique
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby LeDique » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:29 pm

fatduck wrote:question: could Obama appoint himself to the Supreme Court?


I would like to see further discussion on this.

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cinephile
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby cinephile » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:35 pm

This is just life. It's not law specific and quite frankly, I'm surprised it's taken you this long to figure this out about yourself. Forgive the cliche, but it's not the destination, it's the journey that matters. If you enjoy the things you're doing when you're gunning then great, enjoy them. But if you're just trying to tick off boxes to reach some kind of end goal, then let it go because it'll never make you happy, even if you end up as Chief Justice.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:37 pm

LeDique wrote:
fatduck wrote:question: could Obama appoint himself to the Supreme Court?


I would like to see further discussion on this.


Yes, he can.

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/02/barack-o ... eme-court/

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fatduck
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby fatduck » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:39 pm

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
LeDique wrote:
fatduck wrote:question: could Obama appoint himself to the Supreme Court?


I would like to see further discussion on this.


Yes, he can.

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/02/barack-o ... eme-court/

i read that article but didn't see any legal analysis. would he administer the oath of office to himself?

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Shammis
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby Shammis » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:40 pm

this is what happens when you live your life the way other people tell you to. You're not satisfied b/c these goals, although admirable that you accomplished them, dont really have that much meaning to you (and you know it). My getting there is owning my own business and not having anyone tell me what to do. What's yours? I've spoken to way too many attorneys who have settled for a prestigious path, just not one they, themselves, are satisfied with. Don't be afraid to scratch the itch. Lawyers are followers by definition.

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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:42 pm

Shammis wrote:this is what happens when you live your life the way other people tell you to. You're not satisfied b/c these goals, although admirable that you accomplished them, dont really have that much meaning to you (and you know it). My getting there is owning my own business and not having anyone tell me what to do. What's yours? I've spoken to way too many attorneys who have settled for a prestigious path, just not one they, themselves, are satisfied with. Don't be afraid to scratch the itch. Lawyers are followers by definition.


This is very insightful.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:52 pm

fatduck wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
LeDique wrote:
fatduck wrote:question: could Obama appoint himself to the Supreme Court?


I would like to see further discussion on this.


Yes, he can.

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/02/barack-o ... eme-court/

i read that article but didn't see any legal analysis. would he administer the oath of office to himself?


He can nominate himself but the chances of confirmation by the Senate would be zero. Separation of powers, blah blah.

But if he were to be confirmed, I think Biden (lol) would administer the Oath of Office to him. Maybe Biden, Boehner, and Clinton together as the three in line? Idk.

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stillwater
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby stillwater » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:54 pm

i accomplished everything, so i turned to crystal meth.

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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:16 pm

Hey friend, I feel you. I've been in the same place as you in the past, but I think I'm beginning to get it a little more now.

First of all, it's just physics that if you ever want something, there will be stress about it. Having goals means that you aren't what you want to be right now. That's uncomfortable. You want to be a judge, but you aren't right now, so you need to do things. You're not sure you can do those things, or that even if you do, you'll become a judge.

But don't forget that there's another side to yourself: one day you're going to die; all your current experience is is your current experience; making yourself stoked is a different goal than making yourself #1 in your law school class. Once you become a judge, what then? Same. If you don't become a judge, what then? Same. This part of life is always going to be the same: you have a smile on your face right now, or you don't. Deal with it on your own.

I'd love to meet somebody like you in real life, by the way. I feel like many of us have this same sentiment, but not too many of us say it out loud.

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gdane
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby gdane » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:18 pm

Your life is as good as you make it out to be. It sounds like you have a good future ahead of you. Think about the fact that you're in a much better position than most people in this country and most law students.

If you don't clerk for a Supreme Court justice, oh well. Whatever. Things happen for a reason. Just live your life, make the best of it, and keep moving.

Munson
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby Munson » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey friend, I feel you. I've been in the same place as you in the past, but I think I'm beginning to get it a little more now.

First of all, it's just physics that if you ever want something, there will be stress about it. Having goals means that you aren't what you want to be right now. That's uncomfortable. You want to be a judge, but you aren't right now, so you need to do things. You're not sure you can do those things, or that even if you do, you'll become a judge.

But don't forget that there's another side to yourself: one day you're going to die; all your current experience is is your current experience; making yourself stoked is a different goal than making yourself #1 in your law school class. Once you become a judge, what then? Same. If you don't become a judge, what then? Same. This part of life is always going to be the same: you have a smile on your face right now, or you don't. Deal with it on your own.

I'd love to meet somebody like you in real life, by the way. I feel like many of us have this same sentiment, but not too many of us say it out loud.


You have a wise perspective. I appreciate the kind words. Thanks for the response.

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tfer2222
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby tfer2222 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:14 pm

i get what OP is saying but it still just comes across as one big humble brag.

Its hard to get perspective when you're always surrounded by other successful people. As others said above, go read the jobless threads. Or read any newspaper / magazine / atl article on law school published in the last couple of years.

turkeysub
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby turkeysub » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:27 pm

"the job will not save you, it won't make you whole, and it won't fill your ass up"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b54EEpdv9q8

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romothesavior
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby romothesavior » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:28 pm

You sound awful in every way. Go drink a beer or ten and stop being a buttmunch.

adonai
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby adonai » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:35 pm

romothesavior wrote:You sound awful in every way. Go drink a beer or ten and stop being a buttmunch.

Munson
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby Munson » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:50 pm

adonai wrote:
romothesavior wrote:You sound awful in every way. Go drink a beer or ten and stop being a buttmunch.


But will I be able to drink ten of the "best" beers? That's the question.

Scrambles84
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby Scrambles84 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:54 pm

Munson wrote:I am a 3L at a top school. I'm ranked in the top 1%, published, clerking on the Court of Appeals in a major area and circuit, and then working at a prestigious litigation boutique. All of that should make me feel great, yet I am unsatisfied. It seems like a person can never do enough in this profession. There are always others that have done more, done better, gotten ahead in some way.

Personally, my dream is to be a judge one day. That seems like an incredible quality of life, and I'd love to have the opportunity to serve the public in that role. But when you look at the resumes of virtually every federal judge, it's a real eye-opener. Every one of them had all the credentials I have at this point in their careers, plus more in spades. They were Editor-in-Chief of the Law Review, or won three national moot competitions, or cured cancer. They weren't just top 1%--they were number one. They didn't just clerk in a good circuit in a great city--they clerked for Posner or Kozinski or the like. And then they clerked on the Supreme Court. They had been published six times by 3L year. These people are ridiculous. Who are these people?

Looking at these resumes makes me think, despite the significant success I've had, that I've really fallen short of the glory. Any time I do well at something, but not superbly, I am reminded of my shortcoming. I wonder if this phenomenon isn't endemic of the whole damn profession. Does the gunner mentality ever end in this career? Or is the legal profession a never-ending sink hole that spins until you die? Does anyone else have this feeling that there is no end, that more more more will always be expected no matter how well you do?


You haven't fallen short of the glory at all, you have achieved the glory of being in the top 1% of TLS douchebags.

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ph14
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby ph14 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:55 pm

Scrambles84 wrote:
Munson wrote:I am a 3L at a top school. I'm ranked in the top 1%, published, clerking on the Court of Appeals in a major area and circuit, and then working at a prestigious litigation boutique. All of that should make me feel great, yet I am unsatisfied. It seems like a person can never do enough in this profession. There are always others that have done more, done better, gotten ahead in some way.

Personally, my dream is to be a judge one day. That seems like an incredible quality of life, and I'd love to have the opportunity to serve the public in that role. But when you look at the resumes of virtually every federal judge, it's a real eye-opener. Every one of them had all the credentials I have at this point in their careers, plus more in spades. They were Editor-in-Chief of the Law Review, or won three national moot competitions, or cured cancer. They weren't just top 1%--they were number one. They didn't just clerk in a good circuit in a great city--they clerked for Posner or Kozinski or the like. And then they clerked on the Supreme Court. They had been published six times by 3L year. These people are ridiculous. Who are these people?

Looking at these resumes makes me think, despite the significant success I've had, that I've really fallen short of the glory. Any time I do well at something, but not superbly, I am reminded of my shortcoming. I wonder if this phenomenon isn't endemic of the whole damn profession. Does the gunner mentality ever end in this career? Or is the legal profession a never-ending sink hole that spins until you die? Does anyone else have this feeling that there is no end, that more more more will always be expected no matter how well you do?


You haven't fallen short of the glory at all, you have achieved the glory of being in the top 1% of TLS douchebags.


It's not necessary to attack the OP here. It's a legitimate post.

adonai
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby adonai » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:05 pm

Munson wrote:
adonai wrote:
romothesavior wrote:You sound awful in every way. Go drink a beer or ten and stop being a buttmunch.


But will I be able to drink ten of the "best" beers? That's the question.

:lol:

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domino
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby domino » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:07 pm

fatduck wrote:sounds like you need to crush this problem - with your A.S.S.


:lol: perfect reference

ETA OP I sympathize with you (though I really doubt I'll ever be as high achieving as you). Feel good about who you are. I bet there's a lot of great stuff you should value about yourself.

Munson
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby Munson » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:14 pm

Scrambles84 wrote:
You haven't fallen short of the glory at all, you have achieved the glory of being in the top 1% of TLS douchebags.


You totally missed my point. It's not enough to be in the top 1% of TLS douchebags; it's got to be top 1% of douchebags nationwide. But even that won't be enough. Then it will have to be the top douchebag in the world, or possibly the greatest douchebag ever. All the other great douches in history did so much so early. How is a douchebag coming up today supposed to make his mark?

DreamShake
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby DreamShake » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:25 pm

I think OP hits on a big source of law student problems--the ease of access to information that make superficially valid comparisons abnormally easy. I mean, we can generally guess GPA/LSAT ballparks based on schools, grades based on firms/law review, etc. Because the underlying criteria are all based on relative performance, any comparison is implicitly laden with how much better/worse someone is than others. If you're from a family that puts a primacy on academic ability, intellect, achievement, etc., you're not going to feel great after drawing the conclusion that others are better than you. And that conclusion is inevitable for essentially everybody. What OP and a lot of students don't realize is that those comparisons aren't really valid. Law school grades capture certain abilities, but not nearly all those important to being a smart person and good lawyer. And frankly, being a good lawyer has very little to do with being a good person. Ideally, the goal in life is to be a good, happy person--not a good lawyer. The latter might contribute to the former, but seeing as how only a minute fraction of people are lawyers, it seems rather unlikely to be a necessity. OP just needs to find something that reminds him what life is really about. Maybe it's a boyfriend/girlfriend, maybe it's a leisurely walk, maybe it's playing with a puppy that gives zero f***s about how many A's you have--the important thing is to find a mooring to what really counts, one which is strong enough to keep him grounded when the temptation of bad comparisons (frequently) arise.

Sidebar: Judge I worked for wasn't nearly as qualified as you seem to think is necessary, nor did s/he have the lifestyle you envision. S/he had connections to POTUS and decent qualifications (not magna, not EIC, no COA clerkship, etc.). This judge sits in one of the most "competitive" districts/circuits in the country.

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bruinfan10
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Re: Do Gunners Ever Get There?

Postby bruinfan10 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:30 pm

at the risk of taking flack from the humblebrag einsatzgruppen, i think you're just wrestling with a question all ambitious people face. to quote hans gruber from die hard (misquoting plutarch), "when Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer." i think snape was trying to say that ambitious people are restless until they've achieved their goals, but they're also restless when they don't have a goal to achieve. shockingly, the TLS consensus of "you gotta do you bro" might actually be the best answer you're going to get.

and yeah, law is unquestionably full of strivers chasing artificial, prestige-driven objectives (you may enjoy this Harvard Business Review article on the BS that is prestige and why it makes life miserable for you). An insane amount of people in this profession need serious therapy.




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