Those lucky few

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Those lucky few

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:53 pm

I read TLS religiously, and I truly commiserate with all of the law students who are unemployed, got no-offered, struck out at OCI, etc. I read ITLSS everyday and boil with anger about the bullshit that goes on everyday at most law schools...but I can't help but feel guilty that I am one of the lucky few.

I went to a top 25 UG university and had a GPA in the top quartile of every law school, even Yale, for admissions standards. My LSAT wasn't so great (around 80th percentile) and I am not URM, but thankfully, I had a particularly great connection that got me through when I may not have otherwise. I got into a great T14 as a K-JD.

I tried pretty hard during 1L, but was amazed by a lot of the incredibly intelligent and hard-working people I met there; not only did they have a passion for the classes more than me, they did every reading and were prepared for every class...something I definitely didn't have the motivation to do...i didnt really even read anything but outlines after the first half of the first semester 1L, and i really focused on gaming the law school exam system. I finished 1L below median...I would say around 70% or so, with a 3.15 or so...i networked like crazy for OCI and interviewed extremely well, and i got more than 3 great biglaw offers in my top market, and chose a job at the perfect fit for me, a V25 in my ideal market....now i am enjoying 2L and coasting, and looking forward to the summer. I also have pretty limited loans (around 50k when all is said and done) thanks to parent help.

I guess what I mean by this whole thing is that I don't quite feel like I "deserve" all of this, when I see and read all of the stories on here everyday of people doing 10x the work that I did with similar stats but just less connections and interviewing skills, coming from worse ranked schools. I do have the skills and I will work relentlessly once my biglaw job actually starts, but I have made it this far without the LSAT nor the 1L effort/grades to do so.

Does anyone else feel like I do...like they are working in biglaw (or another prestigious job) but don't quite "deserve" it?

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Uncle.Joe
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Re: Those lucky few

Postby Uncle.Joe » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:59 pm

I found a troll!

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stillwater
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Re: Those lucky few

Postby stillwater » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:59 pm

TROLLOLOLOLOL

Anonymous User
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Re: Those lucky few

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:12 pm

haha OP here...why is this a troll? i was trying to be as genuine as possible, and not at all braggy. sorry if it came off that way

truevines
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Re: Those lucky few

Postby truevines » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:27 pm

My trust fund friend partied through his college and graduated the bottom of the class. He never goes to law school and he is a director of his dad's company and of several corps owned by his dad's friends. He literally works one or two hours a day and earns more than 160k.

In the mean time, I struggle every day to bill 9 or 10 billables to make 160k a year. Surely he does not deserve to have a good dad.

Cut the craps out.

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Re: Those lucky few

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:28 pm

I can sorta relate to OP. But I don't really feel bad about it. I worked hard to get here and I was fortunate enough to have some help along the way. I recognize that most other people don't. But that doesn't mean you have to feel guilty for taking advantage of what you have been given.

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Re: Those lucky few

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I can sorta relate to OP. But I don't really feel bad about it. I worked hard to get here and I was fortunate enough to have some help along the way. I recognize that most other people don't. But that doesn't mean you have to feel guilty for taking advantage of what you have been given.


its not guilt as much as its just that i feel like i am really good at knowing the bare minimum i need to do to succeed, plus I am very excellent at representing it (to employers, on exams, etc.) as having done the hard work to begin with. I know that law school is one big game, and perhaps I have just figured out how to master it with limited work, but I cant help but feel bad for the t25-50 kids who are missing thanksgiving dinner to outline so that they can get in the top 10% of the class to duke it out for a chance at a biglaw job during OCI.

nyg22
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Re: Those lucky few

Postby nyg22 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:40 pm

Don't worry about them. They will make their own luck and continue to work hard and grind until they succeed.

If nothing else, you come off arrogant, disingenuous by "feeling bad" since you are lazy and still got a job.

Finally, working in the private sector is certainly a game of convincing peers, bosses, clients that you are an invaluable asset. You have the part of shmoozing, portraying the proper picture, etc down. But can you actually suck it up when times are tough and pull all-nighters or work weekends? I'm not sure, you sound kind of soft.

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Re: Those lucky few

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:44 pm

nyg22 wrote:Don't worry about them. They will make their own luck and continue to work hard and grind until they succeed.

If nothing else, you come off arrogant, disingenuous by "feeling bad" since you are lazy and still got a job.

Finally, working in the private sector is certainly a game of convincing peers, bosses, clients that you are an invaluable asset. You have the part of shmoozing, portraying the proper picture, etc down. But can you actually suck it up when times are tough and pull all-nighters or work weekends? I'm not sure, you sound kind of soft.


i wouldnt call it lazy, i would call it expertly adept at putting in the minimum output required to get the desired goal. and i can understand where you see me coming off as arrogant, disingenuous, or soft, but i assure you that it is out of self-preservation above all else, rather than any sort of comparative disdain for those at lesser schools working harder....when push comes to shove, i will do whatever i need to to be successful...just as I feel I have done now.

nyg22
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Re: Those lucky few

Postby nyg22 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:56 pm

It's funny. I have a life-long friend, who was an expert at gaming every institution. When he was in HS, he copied other student's tests. When he was in college, he only took professors that he knew gave final exams that were similar to prior exams (and he would proceed to get the prior exams). Like you, he professed that he would be able to cut his teeth once he entered the working world.

The lesson that he (and I believe you) is missing is the value in the experience of working incredibly hard in high stress environments, while keeping an even temper. Thus, when you are getting crushed in your investment banking/corporate lawyer/mgmt consultanting role, you can remember the hardest moments and how you pushed through and succeeded. Similar lessons are learned in sports or any activity where you are not taking the easy road.

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Re: Those lucky few

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:00 pm

nyg22 wrote:It's funny. I have a life-long friend, who was an expert at gaming every institution. When he was in HS, he copied other student's tests. When he was in college, he only took professors that he knew gave final exams that were similar to prior exams (and he would proceed to get the prior exams). Like you, he professed that he would be able to cut his teeth once he entered the working world.

The lesson that he (and I believe you) is missing is the value in the experience of working incredibly hard in high stress environments, while keeping an even temper. Thus, when you are getting crushed in your investment banking/corporate lawyer/mgmt consultanting role, you can remember the hardest moments and how you pushed through and succeeded. Similar lessons are learned in sports or any activity where you are not taking the easy road.


well, i have never cheated or anything like that, and i never would, if that's what you're insinuating. my only point is that i recognize, at whatever level i am at, what i need to do to be successful and get to the next level, and then i make it happen. i did work incredibly hard in high stress environments, just to the level that i had to in order to get where i wanted. its just about minimizing the level of stress/burden you take on when you truly dont have to. working in big law is going to be hard enough...you don't have to kill yourself unnecessarily in law school to boot.

nyg22
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Re: Those lucky few

Postby nyg22 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:05 pm

If the thrust of your topic is minimizing work load to maximize success, I agree with you to an extent. But have you really done this?

This is not meant as an offense: But you didn't do great on the LSAT or in 1L year, so you were essentially betting that your connections and networking skills were SO good that it would overcome any academic deficiencies.

If you came out ahead (depending on your goals), i think you were more lucky than "skilled in managing your time/workload" or however you want to phrase it.

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Re: Those lucky few

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:19 pm

nyg22 wrote:If the thrust of your topic is minimizing work load to maximize success, I agree with you to an extent. But have you really done this?

This is not meant as an offense: But you didn't do great on the LSAT or in 1L year, so you were essentially betting that your connections and networking skills were SO good that it would overcome any academic deficiencies.

If you came out ahead (depending on your goals), i think you were more lucky than "skilled in managing your time/workload" or however you want to phrase it.


well, i would simply say that our definitions of "maximizing success" are different. i did what i had to do to get to the next level, and nothing more. the lsat that i got was just enough to get me into where i wanted to go with my connections. the 1l grades were just high enough that combined with my school and my interviewing skills and softs, i was able to get my dream job. now that the law school nonsense is out of the way, the next step is to learn as much as i can and do my job to the best of my abilities, working long nights on difficult tasks. i just think that i am coming through as well-rested and relaxed as possible in order to handle the difficult and long tasks that lie ahead.

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Re: Those lucky few

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:28 pm

My dad gave me 300k for law school tuition/food/boarding. I don't have any student loan. He is also buying a house for me after I graduate in whichever city I will be working in.

I am so lucky.

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BullShitWithBravado
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Re: Those lucky few

Postby BullShitWithBravado » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:35 pm

It's not your fault that things worked out for you with less-than-average effort, so you don't need to feel bad. However, I'm sure that if you donate your time to doing pro bono and giving back to the community you'll feel better.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Those lucky few

Postby BruceWayne » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:44 pm

You do realize that the people who "deserve" their biglaw jobs (i.e. those with high law school GPAs) just got better grades on 3-4 hour opaque typing race exams at the very end of the semester right? I mean, to be honest, if you really want to get right down to the core of it, people don't "deserve" 6 figure jobs just for that either. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Some people are just skilled at taking law school exams and some aren't. That's really not the sort of thing to feel one way or the other about in terms of work ethic or having "earned" anything. It's not like college, med school, engineering, and most other forms of academia/higher ed where success is highly correlated with accomplishing multiple goals over an extended period of time.

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Re: Those lucky few

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:06 am

BruceWayne wrote:You do realize that the people who "deserve" their biglaw jobs (i.e. those with high law school GPAs) just got better grades on 3-4 hour opaque typing race exams at the very end of the semester right? I mean, to be honest, if you really want to get right down to the core of it, people don't "deserve" 6 figure jobs just for that either. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Some people are just skilled at taking law school exams and some aren't. That's really not the sort of thing to feel one way or the other about in terms of work ethic or having "earned" anything. It's not like college, med school, engineering, and most other forms of academia/higher ed where success is highly correlated with accomplishing multiple goals over an extended period of time.


i guess its just that conventional wisdom says the more you prepare and the harder you work, the better you will fare on those 4 hour "opaque" exams....but yeah ur right i agree, it's really a testament to the arbitrary nature of law grades in general

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Re: Those lucky few

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:39 am

i go to a T 40-50, was around top 35% after my first year. mostly good grades, one bad grade. had around 9 interviews at OCI, no callbacks. got a 10th interview through a friend that was an associate in a v20. my work background complimented this particular office of the firm. i got a callback, and somehow got an offer in october. it's now 2nd semester 2L, and the main thing motivating me to try to some degree is a sense of appreciation and obligation, and also a desire to graduate with latin honors. i worked hard 1L and did reasonably well, but by no means was spending gunner hours in the library. got barely above median fall 2L, mainly due to stress and anxiety in OCI. i feel like i won the lottery, and am happy of course, but it crushes my soul to know that many of my friends face unemployment while doing better and trying harder than me. looking forward, it helps a bit to promise to myself that i will take my job seriously and do my best in order to be truly appreciate for the opportunity i have been given (let's hope i do it....lol)

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Re: Those lucky few

Postby Kronk » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:45 am

Gotta agree with the above. OP sounds super soft; gonna get his top fucking spun in the private sector a few times and he'll quiet down.

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Re: Those lucky few

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:25 am

Kronk wrote:Gotta agree with the above. OP sounds super soft; gonna get his top fucking spun in the private sector a few times and he'll quiet down.


still don't get what you mean by "soft"...you overly competitive, masculine guys make this sound like its a football game or something...i'm soft because you dont see me as having an overt gunner mentality....perhaps i am just tactically smarter than all of you, putting in the effort where it counts and disregarding the rest. toil away and bust your ass when it doesnt matter and then when you finally start working and you see that you know just as much as everyone else about being a biglaw attorney, that it didnt matter if you got an A or a B+ in that class, and that the 100 extra hours of studying throughout the semester really weren't important, or that spending 100 hours writing that comment that was/wasnt published (for transactional work who cares really?) didnt matter....i just think I know what is important and I got it done. now i devote my time to my significant other, my friends, family, and other interests, and a little bit of school. and im enjoying my life much more because of it

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Re: Those lucky few

Postby francesfarmer » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Kronk wrote:Gotta agree with the above. OP sounds super soft; gonna get his top fucking spun in the private sector a few times and he'll quiet down.


still don't get what you mean by "soft"...you overly competitive, masculine guys make this sound like its a football game or something...i'm soft because you dont see me as having an overt gunner mentality....perhaps i am just tactically smarter than all of you, putting in the effort where it counts and disregarding the rest. toil away and bust your ass when it doesnt matter and then when you finally start working and you see that you know just as much as everyone else about being a biglaw attorney, that it didnt matter if you got an A or a B+ in that class, and that the 100 extra hours of studying throughout the semester really weren't important, or that spending 100 hours writing that comment that was/wasnt published (for transactional work who cares really?) didnt matter....i just think I know what is important and I got it done. now i devote my time to my significant other, my friends, family, and other interests, and a little bit of school. and im enjoying my life much more because of it

lolololol

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fatduck
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Re: Those lucky few

Postby fatduck » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:45 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Kronk wrote:Gotta agree with the above. OP sounds super soft; gonna get his top fucking spun in the private sector a few times and he'll quiet down.


still don't get what you mean by "soft"...you overly competitive, masculine guys make this sound like its a football game or something...i'm soft because you dont see me as having an overt gunner mentality....perhaps i am just tactically smarter than all of you, putting in the effort where it counts and disregarding the rest. toil away and bust your ass when it doesnt matter and then when you finally start working and you see that you know just as much as everyone else about being a biglaw attorney, that it didnt matter if you got an A or a B+ in that class, and that the 100 extra hours of studying throughout the semester really weren't important, or that spending 100 hours writing that comment that was/wasnt published (for transactional work who cares really?) didnt matter....i just think I know what is important and I got it done. now i devote my time to my significant other, my friends, family, and other interests, and a little bit of school. and im enjoying my life much more because of it

are you also trained in gorilla warfare?

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Re: Those lucky few

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:52 am

OP --

Congratulations on all your success so far. I'm sorry to burst your bubble but getting a job in biglaw is not some holy grail. You haven't made it yet.

You may know that most biglaw associates do not remain at their firm for more than a few years and do not make partner. Many end up getting laid off or pushed out the door after a short period. Others that remain with their firm find themselves miserably unhappy, working ridiculous hours, unable to spend much time with their family, and unlikely to advance in the ranks of the firm. All of the above are people you now group under the label "the lucky few."

Getting the job is only the first step, and getting the SA is akin to getting your shoes laced up for the journey. You have been very fortunate and successful so far, but past results are no guarantee of future success. You'll never know what opportunities you might have had if you had only applied yourself. And you can only hope that one day you aren't telling yourself "If only..."

A stranger's advice: put your intellect to good use and apply yourself. You have put yourself in a terrific position to be successful, but your work habits will catch up to you. Your firm overlords will not look kindly on them, to begin, which makes you very likely to end up in the sub-category of the "lucky few" that fall on their ass at some point. If you continue to do only the minimum, eventually you'll come up short. And you'll feel an awful lot of guilt at that point about the opportunities you squandered.

Good luck to you.

Torney12
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Re: Those lucky few

Postby Torney12 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:52 am

I must have misread the original post because it seems to me that the grand accomplishment that you're boasting about is being a 2L with the opportunity to summer at a firm and not even a top firm at that. You don't have a permanent offer for post-graduation employment and you have yet to even get through the summer. I'm probably showing my age here, but back in my day, people trolled by sharing truly amazing and rare accomplishments, not middling opportunities that thousands of others also have access to. Your accomplishment is noteworthy only because the economy is bad, not because you've done anything remarkable.

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Re: Those lucky few

Postby vinnnyvincenzo » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:02 pm

What is the point of this thread, to see if there are other spoiled rich kids with mediocre ability and minimal drive who get jobs that they dont really deserve?




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