McKinsey Forum

[Anonymous User]

What would one do at McK with a JD? Can someone elaborate?

[Anonymous User]

Do you mind sharing the offer rate for MBB at Columbia? I know there are some numbers floating around for HLS but I don't think I have come across Columbia numbers yet.

In 2009, 31 interviews, 1 offer. In 2010, 29 interviews, 2 offers.

[Anonymous User]

What would one do at McK with a JD? Can someone elaborate?

The same thing you'd do with an MBA. Management consulting - advise companies on their strategy and / or operations.

[Anonymous User]

What would one do at McK with a JD? Can someone elaborate?

The same thing you'd do with an MBA. Management consulting - advise companies on their strategy and / or operations.

And you apply via their website as a summer intern?

[Anonymous User]

What would one do at McK with a JD? Can someone elaborate?

The same thing you'd do with an MBA. Management consulting - advise companies on their strategy and / or operations.

And you apply via their website as a summer intern?

http://www.mckinsey.com/careers/your_ba ... al_degrees

[Anonymous User]

Are the exit options out of McK any better than as a V5-V10 corporate lawyer in terms of money, lifestyle, and probability of achieving said exit options?

[Anonymous User]

Also, I am clearly biased, but you should apply to all three firms (Bain, BCG, and McKinsey), and probably even some "secondary" firms like Booz, Deloitte, Oliver Wyman, LEK, etc. There's no need to limit yourself to only one or two firms.

How did you go about applying to the "secondary firms." They do not seem to have the summer programs that BCG and McKinsey (Deloitte too) have, nor an easy way for JDs to apply. Am i missing something on their websites, or do you mean to apply as a 3L?

[Anonymous User]

Are the exit options out of McK any better than as a JD in terms of money, lifestyle, and probability of achieving said exit options?

It depends on your career goals but IMO they're far superior.
Money: Biglaw starts high but from there raises/bonuses are pretty small. MBB start a little lower but have more generous raises and bonuses.
Opportunity: after 2 years at MBB you will be sought after by companies in pretty much every industry for roles that vary from general management to financial analyst. Also by nature business consulting has global mobility so you're not even limited in that regard.

Lifestyle: this depends and can be a deal breaker. There's almost constant travelling so if you're not ok with that, you shouldn't get into consulting. Hours go up and down a lot. You'll have more to do closer to project due dates and less earlier on. However the billing is less complicated than law and you pretty much bill all your day in one chunk to the same client most of the time. You also get very light Fridays, that can be good for some people. Overall hours (without considering travelling) are better than law.

Because you get so many different exit opportunities it's hard to predict lifestyle/money for those. I think the ceiling for earning potential and the probability of making partner within the firm or a great job outside are both higher.

[Anonymous User]

Also, I am clearly biased, but you should apply to all three firms (Bain, BCG, and McKinsey), and probably even some "secondary" firms like Booz, Deloitte, Oliver Wyman, LEK, etc. There's no need to limit yourself to only one or two firms.

How did you go about applying to the "secondary firms." They do not seem to have the summer programs that BCG and McKinsey (Deloitte too) have, nor an easy way for JDs to apply. Am i missing something on their websites, or do you mean to apply as a 3L?

Networking. Outside of McK and BCG, Bain and second tier firms don't hire JDs regularly and don't have established programs. Your best shot to get in is to hustle and network and get FT in 3L. They will not question your decision to do 2L SA but if you want to do something more relevant maybe you can inhouse at a business or a fund and split your summer.

Also note that compensation varies a lot between firms. MBB generally start at $120-135 + bonus but other firms can go as low as $80K.

[Anonymous User]

How did you go about applying to the "secondary firms." They do not seem to have the summer programs that BCG and McKinsey (Deloitte too) have, nor an easy way for JDs to apply. Am i missing something on their websites, or do you mean to apply as a 3L?

They all have summer programs. Bain actively recruits JDs, but less than McK and BCG. For the others, try to network your in. Failing that, just send an app through the website - it's much less likely to get picked up if you're not coming in through a networking referral, but it's better than nothing.

Also note that compensation varies a lot between firms. MBB generally start at $120-135 + bonus but other firms can go as low as $80K.

For comp, this is very accurate (I can verify it's accurate for McK and BCG's packages, except that signing bonuses just moved $5k higher) - JDs start on the post-MBA salary scale: http://managementconsulted.com/consulti ... -and-more/

[Anonymous User]

Are the exit options out of McK any better than as a JD in terms of money, lifestyle, and probability of achieving said exit options?

It depends on your career goals but IMO they're far superior.
Money: Biglaw starts high but from there raises/bonuses are pretty small. MBB start a little lower but have more generous raises and bonuses.
Opportunity: after 2 years at MBB you will be sought after by companies in pretty much every industry for roles that vary from general management to financial analyst. Also by nature business consulting has global mobility so you're not even limited in that regard.

Lifestyle: this depends and can be a deal breaker. There's almost constant travelling so if you're not ok with that, you shouldn't get into consulting. Hours go up and down a lot. You'll have more to do closer to project due dates and less earlier on. However the billing is less complicated than law and you pretty much bill all your day in one chunk to the same client most of the time. You also get very light Fridays, that can be good for some people. Overall hours (without considering travelling) are better than law.

Because you get so many different exit opportunities it's hard to predict lifestyle/money for those. I think the ceiling for earning potential and the probability of making partner within the firm or a great job outside are both higher.

This is pretty accurate. I'd emphasize it's really a question of whether you want to do business or law. Even if you're working slightly more in terms of hours in a legal job, if you like your job more, you'll be happier, and thus I would say your exit options are "better."

The travel is a big point to consider. However I found the hours in consulting to be more regular, if compact (meaning you work very hard during the week when you're at the client, but little on Fridays, and virtually not at all on weekends). Very typical schedule would be 9am-11pm (with breaks for dinner / gym) Mon-Wed, 9am - 7pm on Thursday, 9am-5pm on Friday, then little no work on weekends (seriously - in two years I worked maybe 3-4 weekends). It's also very predictable since you're on long term projects. You never have the phenomenon that occurs sometimes in transactional law where you're doing nothing until 4pm then a deal suddenly drops out of thin air and you pull an all nighter.

But the travel really gets to some people. If you have a spouse and/or kids, being away from home four days a week wears on you.

[Anonymous User]

What is MBB?

[Anonymous User]

What is MBB?

McKinsey, Boston Consulting, Bain Consulting...

[Anonymous User]

They will probably care more about your SAT math, or GRE math/GMAT if you have taken them. For what is worth, I was above 98% on math sections of those exams and on LSAT. I have a liberal arts background and relatively shitty work experience, so I cannot imagine anything but my test scores getting their attention. I thought (and still think) it was such a long shot that I did not even write a cover letter to my application. However, if you can network or have relevant work experience, I imagine they can look at 90%.

Edit: apologies for quotes coming up like this. Not sure what is up.

One Question, how did you put your test score on your resume? Under what section?

[Anonymous User]

One data point FWIW: I applied for interviews at MBB as a senior in college, 3.8 (top 15%) at a liberal arts college where they usually recruit, 1580 SAT, 1600 GRE, limited work experience. Didn't get any response from them. So scores are not necessarily enough to get your foot in the door if you have okay GPA but not much else going for you at that level.

[Anonymous User]

They will probably care more about your SAT math, or GRE math/GMAT if you have taken them. For what is worth, I was above 98% on math sections of those exams and on LSAT. I have a liberal arts background and relatively shitty work experience, so I cannot imagine anything but my test scores getting their attention. I thought (and still think) it was such a long shot that I did not even write a cover letter to my application. However, if you can network or have relevant work experience, I imagine they can look at 90%.

Edit: apologies for quotes coming up like this. Not sure what is up.

One Question, how did you put your test score on your resume? Under what section?

They ask on their web application...

[Anonymous User]

They will probably care more about your SAT math, or GRE math/GMAT if you have taken them. For what is worth, I was above 98% on math sections of those exams and on LSAT. I have a liberal arts background and relatively shitty work experience, so I cannot imagine anything but my test scores getting their attention. I thought (and still think) it was such a long shot that I did not even write a cover letter to my application. However, if you can network or have relevant work experience, I imagine they can look at 90%.

Edit: apologies for quotes coming up like this. Not sure what is up.

One Question, how did you put your test score on your resume? Under what section?

Add as a bullet point under your law school in Education part:

• LSAT score: xxx – GMAT score: xxx (Q:xx | V:xx)

[Anonymous User]

Is it too late to score a summer internship with MBB + secondary as a 2L?

[Anonymous User]

Is it too late to score a summer internship with MBB + secondary as a 2L?

Too late? No. Uphill battle because you are late? Yes.

MBA interviews for summer positions are happening right now. So they haven't filled their class yet. But they will have within the next couple of weeks.

[joedf]

I interviewed with and got offers from both McK and BCG (and I will be working at the latter starting this fall). As others have said, having the firms interview on campus is a big step up - at Columbia (where I am) McKinsey will interview pretty much anyone who wants to. Elsewhere, as others have mentioned, networking is key. Look at your law school's alumni database, scan your linkedin contacts, etc. It's not like you need someone pulling hard for you, you just need someone to slip your resume to the recruiters so it doesn't get lost in the online app pile.

As far as getting picked for an interview, the big thing you will have to demonstrate as a law student is quant aptitude, or at least indications that you would be good at quant. They will ask for SAT / ACT scores - if your math component is high, that's a big plus. Same if you had a quantitative major or a previous job involving lots of numbers. Any previous experience that is not quantitative or not business-related is largely irrelevant. The other typical weakness law students have is they are awkward / not personable, but this is assessed through the interview.

As others have said, once you have an interview (a real interview, not the screener, if any), it's all about performance on cases and the fit (which are really "structured stories" about past experience).

Also, I am clearly biased, but you should apply to all three firms (Bain, BCG, and McKinsey), and probably even some "secondary" firms like Booz, Deloitte, Oliver Wyman, LEK, etc. There's no need to limit yourself to only one or two firms.

Hey man, could you PM me? I have a couple questions about CLS and this.

[crazycanuck]

One data point FWIW: I applied for interviews at MBB as a senior in college, 3.8 (top 15%) at a liberal arts college where they usually recruit, 1580 SAT, 1600 GRE, limited work experience. Didn't get any response from them. So scores are not necessarily enough to get your foot in the door if you have okay GPA but not much else going for you at that level.

Did you attend any of their networking events/know anyone in the firm?

If you just submitted your application online, I'm not surprise you didn't hear back from them. They won't look at you if they don't know who you are unless you've done something awesome in the past.

Attending the networking/recruiting events and going out to coffee is essential to get them to look at your resume.

I have a friend with a B average in uni who got a job straight out of Uni at MBB. He impressed a couple partners/recruiters at recruiting events, had lunches+coffee with them, and did well on the case interviews.

Often these firms know who they are going to interview before resumes are even submitted.

[Anonymous User]

One data point FWIW: I applied for interviews at MBB as a senior in college, 3.8 (top 15%) at a liberal arts college where they usually recruit, 1580 SAT, 1600 GRE, limited work experience. Didn't get any response from them. So scores are not necessarily enough to get your foot in the door if you have okay GPA but not much else going for you at that level.

Did you attend any of their networking events/know anyone in the firm?

If you just submitted your application online, I'm not surprise you didn't hear back from them. They won't look at you if they don't know who you are unless you've done something awesome in the past.

Attending the networking/recruiting events and going out to coffee is essential to get them to look at your resume.

I have a friend with a B average in uni who got a job straight out of Uni at MBB. He impressed a couple partners/recruiters at recruiting events, had lunches+coffee with them, and did well on the case interviews.

Often these firms know who they are going to interview before resumes are even submitted.

I do not think this is true in relation to McKinsey. The whole point of their exam is to invite a large group of people, and then weed them out. The PST does most of that, and then two rounds of interviews.

BTW, does anyone know what the PST cut-off score is? Obviously McKinsey is not sharing this info, but anecdotally, can people that passed the PST round mention how they were doing on practice tests. I am at about 20/26 and I am afraid this is too low.

[choculamaviva]

Chiming in here as someone starting at MBB next year. My first year compensation -- all in -- is better than what I was going to get if I had taken my biglaw job. 140k base salary + 25k signing bonus plus bonus of up to 30% of base salary (though 20% is much more realistic) + 8,500 contributed to my 401k even if I contribute nothing = roughly 200k in compensation. I also think that the hotel points/flyer miles/meals are worth something. It's unfortunate how little information law students receive about consulting. It should be on their radar.

[Anonymous User]

Chiming in here as someone starting at MBB next year. My first year compensation -- all in -- is better than what I was going to get if I had taken my biglaw job. 140k base salary + 25k signing bonus plus bonus of up to 30% of base salary (though 20% is much more realistic) + 8,500 contributed to my 401k even if I contribute nothing = roughly 200k in compensation. I also think that the hotel points/flyer miles/meals are worth something. It's unfortunate how little information law students receive about consulting. It should be on their radar.

I'm one of these students who hadn't this on my radar AT ALL until recently...mostly bc I'm from the Midwest and no one here even considers it.

Wondering if I would be at all competitive (although unfortunately I have no connections in this area). 3.8 GPA in undergrad, large public, Physics and Economics degrees. 1530 SAT/34 ACT, 169 LSAT. 15% at my T25 law school.

[Anonymous User]

Chiming in here as someone starting at MBB next year. My first year compensation -- all in -- is better than what I was going to get if I had taken my biglaw job. 140k base salary + 25k signing bonus plus bonus of up to 30% of base salary (though 20% is much more realistic) + 8,500 contributed to my 401k even if I contribute nothing = roughly 200k in compensation. I also think that the hotel points/flyer miles/meals are worth something. It's unfortunate how little information law students receive about consulting. It should be on their radar.

I'm one of these students who hadn't this on my radar AT ALL until recently...mostly bc I'm from the Midwest and no one here even considers it.

Wondering if I would be at all competitive (although unfortunately I have no connections in this area). 3.8 GPA in undergrad, large public, Physics and Economics degrees. 1530 SAT/34 ACT, 169 LSAT. 15% at my T25 law school.

Different anon, but I think so! You lose nothing by applying...