McKinsey Forum

[Anonymous User]

Chiming in here as someone starting at MBB next year. My first year compensation -- all in -- is better than what I was going to get if I had taken my biglaw job. 140k base salary + 25k signing bonus plus bonus of up to 30% of base salary (though 20% is much more realistic) + 8,500 contributed to my 401k even if I contribute nothing = roughly 200k in compensation. I also think that the hotel points/flyer miles/meals are worth something. It's unfortunate how little information law students receive about consulting. It should be on their radar.

I'm one of these students who hadn't this on my radar AT ALL until recently...mostly bc I'm from the Midwest and no one here even considers it.

Wondering if I would be at all competitive (although unfortunately I have no connections in this area). 3.8 GPA in undergrad, large public, Physics and Economics degrees. 1530 SAT/34 ACT, 169 LSAT. 15% at my T25 law school.

Different anon, but I think so! You lose nothing by applying...

Are you kidding me? MBB only hires from a select few law schools -- the rest are funneled in through the same application process that includes MBAs.

[Anonymous User]

Chiming in here as someone starting at MBB next year. My first year compensation -- all in -- is better than what I was going to get if I had taken my biglaw job. 140k base salary + 25k signing bonus plus bonus of up to 30% of base salary (though 20% is much more realistic) + 8,500 contributed to my 401k even if I contribute nothing = roughly 200k in compensation. I also think that the hotel points/flyer miles/meals are worth something. It's unfortunate how little information law students receive about consulting. It should be on their radar.

I'm one of these students who hadn't this on my radar AT ALL until recently...mostly bc I'm from the Midwest and no one here even considers it.

Wondering if I would be at all competitive (although unfortunately I have no connections in this area). 3.8 GPA in undergrad, large public, Physics and Economics degrees. 1530 SAT/34 ACT, 169 LSAT. 15% at my T25 law school.

Different anon, but I think so! You lose nothing by applying...

Are you kidding me? MBB only hires from a select few law schools -- the rest are funneled in through the same application process that includes MBAs.

MBB does not hire you for your law skills. They hire you for raw intellect. 1530 SAT signals that to them, 3.8 GPA in hard courses signals that to them, 169 LSAT not as much, but is not bad either.

Btw, does anyone know about PST cut offs on the basis of how they did in practice tests... would appreciate it.

[imchuckbass58]

I do not think this is true in relation to McKinsey. The whole point of their exam is to invite a large group of people, and then weed them out. The PST does most of that, and then two rounds of interviews.

BTW, does anyone know what the PST cut-off score is? Obviously McKinsey is not sharing this info, but anecdotally, can people that passed the PST round mention how they were doing on practice tests. I am at about 20/26 and I am afraid this is too low.

I did not take practice tests so I have no idea firsthand, but secondhand I have heard the cutoff is actually quite low (like 50-60% correct). Are you taking it under timed conditions? The PST questions themselves are not meant to be terribly hard - it's mean to be hard because it's deliberately designed so that most people won't finish in the time allotted.

[Anonymous User]

I do not think this is true in relation to McKinsey. The whole point of their exam is to invite a large group of people, and then weed them out. The PST does most of that, and then two rounds of interviews.

BTW, does anyone know what the PST cut-off score is? Obviously McKinsey is not sharing this info, but anecdotally, can people that passed the PST round mention how they were doing on practice tests. I am at about 20/26 and I am afraid this is too low.

I did not take practice tests so I have no idea firsthand, but secondhand I have heard the cutoff is actually quite low (like 50-60% correct). Are you taking it under timed conditions? The PST questions themselves are not meant to be terribly hard - it's mean to be hard because it's deliberately designed so that most people won't finish in the time allotted.

Taking them under timed conditions as real exam. That makes me feel better about my chances. I thought their expected cut off was something like 90%.

[choculamaviva]

Chiming in here as someone starting at MBB next year. My first year compensation -- all in -- is better than what I was going to get if I had taken my biglaw job. 140k base salary + 25k signing bonus plus bonus of up to 30% of base salary (though 20% is much more realistic) + 8,500 contributed to my 401k even if I contribute nothing = roughly 200k in compensation. I also think that the hotel points/flyer miles/meals are worth something. It's unfortunate how little information law students receive about consulting. It should be on their radar.

I'm one of these students who hadn't this on my radar AT ALL until recently...mostly bc I'm from the Midwest and no one here even considers it.

Wondering if I would be at all competitive (although unfortunately I have no connections in this area). 3.8 GPA in undergrad, large public, Physics and Economics degrees. 1530 SAT/34 ACT, 169 LSAT. 15% at my T25 law school.

I would say it's unlikely purely because of your school, but always worth a shot. All the MBAs and non-MBAs who were hired this year at my office except 1 (and it's a big office with a lot of new hires each year) were hired out of the usual suspects, i.e. HSY, Chicago, Wharton, Kellogg/Northwestern, etc...Put in context, I think MBB are substantially more school-centric, if you want to call it that, than biglaw. But again, always worth a shot. On the flip side, I would say it's much LESS of a lock for law students at top schools than big law, i.e. maybe 1 offer for every 20 or so applicants from HSYCCN (just an anecdotal estimate on my part). But that's because it's law school, not B school Also, in your case, some consulting firms no longer care about ACT scores once you get beyond grad/law school and will instead look at the LSAT.

[Anonymous User]

Chiming in here as someone starting at MBB next year. My first year compensation -- all in -- is better than what I was going to get if I had taken my biglaw job. 140k base salary + 25k signing bonus plus bonus of up to 30% of base salary (though 20% is much more realistic) + 8,500 contributed to my 401k even if I contribute nothing = roughly 200k in compensation. I also think that the hotel points/flyer miles/meals are worth something. It's unfortunate how little information law students receive about consulting. It should be on their radar.

I'm one of these students who hadn't this on my radar AT ALL until recently...mostly bc I'm from the Midwest and no one here even considers it.

Wondering if I would be at all competitive (although unfortunately I have no connections in this area). 3.8 GPA in undergrad, large public, Physics and Economics degrees. 1530 SAT/34 ACT, 169 LSAT. 15% at my T25 law school.

I would say it's unlikely purely because of your school, but always worth a shot. All the MBAs and non-MBAs who were hired this year at my office except 1 (and it's a big office with a lot of new hires each year) were hired out of the usual suspects, i.e. HSY, Chicago, Wharton, Kellogg/Northwestern, etc...Put in context, I think MBB are substantially more school-centric, if you want to call it that, than biglaw. But again, always worth a shot. On the flip side, I would say it's much LESS of a lock for law students at top schools than big law, i.e. maybe 1 offer for every 20 or so applicants from HSYCCN (just an anecdotal estimate on my part). But that's because it's law school, not B school Also, in your case, some consulting firms no longer care about ACT scores once you get beyond grad/law school and will instead look at the LSAT.

Just joining thread, by school centric does that encompass Vandy, USC, Notre Dame, etc. or are these seen as lesser because of the non-ivy claim?

[imchuckbass58]

I would say it's unlikely purely because of your school, but always worth a shot. All the MBAs and non-MBAs who were hired this year at my office except 1 (and it's a big office with a lot of new hires each year) were hired out of the usual suspects, i.e. HSY, Chicago, Wharton, Kellogg/Northwestern, etc...Put in context, I think MBB are substantially more school-centric, if you want to call it that, than biglaw. But again, always worth a shot. On the flip side, I would say it's much LESS of a lock for law students at top schools than big law, i.e. maybe 1 offer for every 20 or so applicants from HSYCCN (just an anecdotal estimate on my part). But that's because it's law school, not B school Also, in your case, some consulting firms no longer care about ACT scores once you get beyond grad/law school and will instead look at the LSAT.

Just joining thread, by school centric does that encompass Vandy, USC, Notre Dame, etc. or are these seen as lesser because of the non-ivy claim?

Very narrow group of schools. I would say of JDs at these firms, 90%+ are from HYSCCN. Maybe you'll get a Virginia or a Duke here or there, but that's about it.

[Anonymous User]

Not to hijack this thread, but for consulting recruiting, what outside course should I be taking? I am a T-14 JD with a political science background from undergrad. I'm currently taking financial accounting at the business school and either operations management or managerial finance. Which would consulting firms look more favorable upon? Ops management seems more directly related to consulting, and it employs lots of case studies for homework, but managerial finance sounds more quantitative.

[Anonymous User]

Not to hijack this thread, but for consulting recruiting, what outside course should I be taking? I am a T-14 JD with a political science background from undergrad. I'm currently taking financial accounting at the business school and either operations management or managerial finance. Which would consulting firms look more favorable upon? Ops management seems more directly related to consulting, and it employs lots of case studies for homework, but managerial finance sounds more quantitative.

I think those are good classes, especially if they help you with the interview process. The case interview process is the biggest hurdle for non-MBAs. MBAs have consulting clubs and classes that are all geared towards prepping them for this process. They know what to expect. Law students don't. Buy Case In Point. Try to contact your MBA program's Consulting Club and get some of their practice cases (if you go to a school that has one of the MBA programs that is heavily recruited by MBB). Prepare for the interviews. This is nothing like OCI and it is very unlikely you will do well if you don't prepare.

[bdubs]

Not to hijack this thread, but for consulting recruiting, what outside course should I be taking? I am a T-14 JD with a political science background from undergrad. I'm currently taking financial accounting at the business school and either operations management or managerial finance. Which would consulting firms look more favorable upon? Ops management seems more directly related to consulting, and it employs lots of case studies for homework, but managerial finance sounds more quantitative.

Take an intro strategy class if you can, it will be the most on point.

[Anonymous User]

Not to hijack this thread, but for consulting recruiting, what outside course should I be taking? I am a T-14 JD with a political science background from undergrad. I'm currently taking financial accounting at the business school and either operations management or managerial finance. Which would consulting firms look more favorable upon? Ops management seems more directly related to consulting, and it employs lots of case studies for homework, but managerial finance sounds more quantitative.

They could not care less about what shows up on your transcript, however, those classes would be favorable during interviews. Try to take any business class with a lot of math and strategy... also corporate finance.

[Anonymous User]

One data point FWIW: I applied for interviews at MBB as a senior in college, 3.8 (top 15%) at a liberal arts college where they usually recruit, 1580 SAT, 1600 GRE, limited work experience. Didn't get any response from them. So scores are not necessarily enough to get your foot in the door if you have okay GPA but not much else going for you at that level.

Did you attend any of their networking events/know anyone in the firm?

If you just submitted your application online, I'm not surprise you didn't hear back from them. They won't look at you if they don't know who you are unless you've done something awesome in the past.

Attending the networking/recruiting events and going out to coffee is essential to get them to look at your resume.

I have a friend with a B average in uni who got a job straight out of Uni at MBB. He impressed a couple partners/recruiters at recruiting events, had lunches+coffee with them, and did well on the case interviews.

Often these firms know who they are going to interview before resumes are even submitted.

Hm, good to know. I didn't do any of these things, and probably wouldn't have been able to make a good impression at the time--maybe would fare better now. I'll keep this in mind.

[pbfoot]

How does the hiring process work for BigConsulting? I'm at a T1 (non T14) at which all three of the big guys recruit, but from what I've seen APD and MBA applications/hiring doesn't happen until November/December. How does this mesh with fall OCI? Do they hire earlier for JD students, or do you basically have to gamble on not taking legal offers from OCI and hope that you get a shot from MBB down the road?

[Anonymous User]

How does the hiring process work for BigConsulting? I'm at a T1 (non T14) at which all three of the big guys recruit, but from what I've seen APD and MBA applications/hiring doesn't happen until November/December. How does this mesh with fall OCI? Do they hire earlier for JD students, or do you basically have to gamble on not taking legal offers from OCI and hope that you get a shot from MBB down the road?

Do it as a 3L or do it if you do not get anything from OCI. Do not assume however it is easier than BigLaw... it is way more difficult and you have to compete with PhDs (the other ADP are PhD, not masters, usually) on quant (GMAT level) problems. Not easy for most law students.

[Anonymous User]

How does the hiring process work for BigConsulting? I'm at a T1 (non T14) at which all three of the big guys recruit, but from what I've seen APD and MBA applications/hiring doesn't happen until November/December. How does this mesh with fall OCI? Do they hire earlier for JD students, or do you basically have to gamble on not taking legal offers from OCI and hope that you get a shot from MBB down the road?

Do it as a 3L or do it if you do not get anything from OCI. Do not assume however it is easier than BigLaw... it is way more difficult and you have to compete with PhDs (the other ADP are PhD, not masters, usually) on quant (GMAT level) problems. Not easy for most law students.

Absolutely do NOT forego OCI and roll the dice. First of all, it's unnecessary: you can apply as a 3L. Second, it is very unlikely you will get a job at MBB and to do it instead of OCI would be foolish. At my CCN school, McKinsey took 1, BCG took 1, Bain took 0. I would say there were around 20 JD applicants from my school for each, but that's a guess. That said, there are problems with applying as a 3L as well. Offers for BCG are usually made around Nov 1st, for McK it's about a month sooner. So if you have an offer from your summer firm, you will have a response deadline of Nov 1 and they will likely really begin to wonder what's up if you go right up to the deadline.

[kimtran]

Somebody asked about the cut-off score of the McKinsey PST.

Here is a helpful link:
--LinkRemoved--

[Anonymous User]

who else is taking the McK pst next week?

[Anonymous User]

Tried the McKinsey thing last year. I think almost everyone past a certain LSAT range gets too take the test. McK does most of its selection during the 2nd interview. Good luck.
Ps, does anyone know a good site with deadlines for consulting/accounting firm application deadlines. Some firms, like BCG have really convoluted websites...

[Anonymous User]

Tried the McKinsey thing last year. I think almost everyone past a certain LSAT range gets too take the test. McK does most of its selection during the 2nd interview. Good luck.
Ps, does anyone know a good site with deadlines for consulting/accounting firm application deadlines. Some firms, like BCG have really convoluted websites...

BCG runs on a later schedule. They won't be accepting apps for a little bit (talked to the recruiting person.)

[AllTheLawz]

I'm one of these students who hadn't this on my radar AT ALL until recently...mostly bc I'm from the Midwest and no one here even considers it.

Wondering if I would be at all competitive (although unfortunately I have no connections in this area). 3.8 GPA in undergrad, large public, Physics and Economics degrees. 1530 SAT/34 ACT, 169 LSAT. 15% at my T25 law school.

I would say it's unlikely purely because of your school, but always worth a shot. All the MBAs and non-MBAs who were hired this year at my office except 1 (and it's a big office with a lot of new hires each year) were hired out of the usual suspects, i.e. HSY, Chicago, Wharton, Kellogg/Northwestern, etc...Put in context, I think MBB are substantially more school-centric, if you want to call it that, than biglaw. But again, always worth a shot. On the flip side, I would say it's much LESS of a lock for law students at top schools than big law, i.e. maybe 1 offer for every 20 or so applicants from HSYCCN (just an anecdotal estimate on my part). But that's because it's law school, not B school Also, in your case, some consulting firms no longer care about ACT scores once you get beyond grad/law school and will instead look at the LSAT.

Just joining thread, by school centric does that encompass Vandy, USC, Notre Dame, etc. or are these seen as lesser because of the non-ivy claim?

I believe target schools for MBB JD recruiting are H, Y, Columbia and NYU (Not sure about S). McKinsey does the most JD recruiting and the most frequently hired are H students.

[randal01]

.

[bdubs]

I thought the conventional wisdom was that law school students' chances at MBB correlate to their university's business school's ranking, more or less. Do NYU students really have an advantage over Penn students at MBB?

Are you stupid?

[Anonymous User]

I have really been looking at consulting careers, so far unsuccessfully I must admit, and I do not think MBB places H students at a higher pedestal than let's say NU students.
I think they have some bare requirements: high lsat score, high sat, top law school.
If you pass those requirements, you take their test. Their test is basic math, relatively easy I think for anyone that has scored over 700 on math sat.
If you pass the test, then you are interviewed two different times.

First time, you are interviewed at the office near your school. Here most applicants fail. Their interviews are tough, tougher than anything on OCI. Two interviewers, two types of questions each. First type of question is math/analytics/problem-solving oriented. It requires you to be fast, to know how to read graphs, to know how to ask questions, in a few words, it requires you to be smart in a consulting sense, not in a legal sense. I think a lot of law students, no matter their school or GPA do not do so well here. This is like the ideal place for people who like mental math, can think out of the box, can come up with a decent answer to a question like this "what do you think is the revenue from the parking meters in NYC?". They wonder here how you will approach the problem... how structured you are... how logical the steps and the assumptions you take are?
Personally, I love those type of questions, and also like logic games on the LSAT, you can train yourself to answer them.

The even harder part in my opinion is when they ask you about leadership skills, or about conflict management. If you have been in the military and investment banking, great... you will have good stories. But most of us, simply do not have much in relation to this. We had situations of silly conflict management, not real. Additionally, you cannot bullshit it... they grill you at it, grill you I say. They ask what did the other person respond, what did you think then, what did they do then... kind of like a deposition.

Additionally, even if you have good stories, they might not necessarily like what you say.

After this ordeal, yes that is how it felt to me, you are invited to an even tougher interview at the office where you will be working. Same format, I believe (did not make it this far), but partners thrown in the mix.


PS, to understand why they go through such lengths. Look at it from their perspective. Biglaw partners cover their associates because biglaw partners are the one dealing with the clients. As an associate you have time to prepare your info. and it goes first to partner. So as long as partner can live with you, you are good enough for the firm.
MBB guys are sent to their clients offices, on a small group. They want to make sure that if CEO passes by your office and asks you something, you will not sound like an idiot. Or if some department head is pissed off at you and your advice, you will know how to deal with it.

[Anonymous User]

who else is taking the McK pst next week?

are you at one of nyu/cls?

has anyone who applied on-line (so not from nyu/cls/hls/yls) heard back? I'm at P and am really starting to freak out bc I haven't heard anything ...

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know how many weeks there usually are between each of the 3 rounds? Same question for BCG and Bain's 2/3(?) rounds.

Also, to anon 2 posts above. That was helpful, thanks a lot.