Possible to get a 3L internship in NY while skippin classes?

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Possible to get a 3L internship in NY while skippin classes?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:28 pm

SO is a 2L and goes to HY, has done well, believes 3L education is a general waste of time relative to other potential opportunities. I'm a 3L at the same school and can attest to this conclusion. She wants to get an internship in NY next year while living with me and skipping the majority of her classes, studying for them via outlines and notes.

Is this a possibility? Has anyone heard of anyone doing something similar? Anyone heard of interning for the same firm they summered at during the school year -- either for free or reduced pay? What about other jobs?

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Possible to get a 3L internship in NY while skippin classes?

Postby somewhatwayward » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:38 pm

Yes, it is possible as in some people stay on at their firms during the school year and there are a plethora of internships available in NYC. If she goes to Yale, there is a special Yale-only program where Goldman Sachs hires one (maybe more?) Yale 3L as an intern. You are at Yale for your classes three days a week or whatever and then come to NYC on the other two days to work at Goldman. I know the person doing it this year. Besides that there are also other internships. I am doing an in-house internship right now with a big company in the city, but I go to CLS so I am still able to go to classes.

I get where you are coming from about 3L year but I still personally think the idea of completely leaving the school for 95% of the semester is kinda stupid. If she could make it so she is there for part of the time and put all her classes in then and then comes to the NYC for the other days of the week, that seems better, especially if this is Yale since it isn't that far to commute. I have heard stories about people who spent their entire 3L year traveling or whatever, but as useless as it is, I still think you should try to be around for most of it.

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bk1
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Re: Possible to get a 3L internship in NY while skippin classes?

Postby bk1 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:39 pm

Some schools offer intensive semester practicums where you work full time at an intership in another city while getting a full semester's worth of credits.

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Re: Possible to get a 3L internship in NY while skippin classes?

Postby Pokemon » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:45 pm

Also, why does she not do that whole 3-rd year in another school thing. Go to a NYC school, go to classes, and work. The idea of missing classes just like that seems to me an unnecessary invitation for trouble. The degree will still be from HY.

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Re: Possible to get a 3L internship in NY while skippin classes?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:45 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:Yes, it is possible as in some people stay on at their firms during the school year and there are a plethora of internships available in NYC. If she goes to Yale, there is a special Yale-only program where Goldman Sachs hires one (maybe more?) Yale 3L as an intern. You are at Yale for your classes three days a week or whatever and then come to NYC on the other two days to work at Goldman. I know the person doing it this year. Besides that there are also other internships. I am doing an in-house internship right now with a big company in the city, but I go to CLS so I am still able to go to classes.

I get where you are coming from about 3L year but I still personally think the idea of completely leaving the school for 95% of the semester is kinda stupid. If she could make it so she is there for part of the time and put all her classes in then and then comes to the NYC for the other days of the week, that seems better, especially if this is Yale since it isn't that far to commute. I have heard stories about people who spent their entire 3L year traveling or whatever, but as useless as it is, I still think you should try to be around for most of it.


Great info -- thanks. I've honestly been able to skip the vast majority of my classes and learn all the necessary material in 2 intensive weeks via excellent outline and notes, so I definitely think class time is a waste. She is beginning to see this as well. This is doubly true if all I/she cares for is a P. YMMV, of course.

How'd you end up getting the internship? Just reaching out via school organizations? Are employers fine with you interning at their firm while in school? I assume these are all not-for-pay type gigs, right?

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Re: Possible to get a 3L internship in NY while skippin classes?

Postby somewhatwayward » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
somewhatwayward wrote:Yes, it is possible as in some people stay on at their firms during the school year and there are a plethora of internships available in NYC. If she goes to Yale, there is a special Yale-only program where Goldman Sachs hires one (maybe more?) Yale 3L as an intern. You are at Yale for your classes three days a week or whatever and then come to NYC on the other two days to work at Goldman. I know the person doing it this year. Besides that there are also other internships. I am doing an in-house internship right now with a big company in the city, but I go to CLS so I am still able to go to classes.

I get where you are coming from about 3L year but I still personally think the idea of completely leaving the school for 95% of the semester is kinda stupid. If she could make it so she is there for part of the time and put all her classes in then and then comes to the NYC for the other days of the week, that seems better, especially if this is Yale since it isn't that far to commute. I have heard stories about people who spent their entire 3L year traveling or whatever, but as useless as it is, I still think you should try to be around for most of it.


Great info -- thanks. I've honestly been able to skip the vast majority of my classes and learn all the necessary material in 2 intensive weeks via excellent outline and notes, so I definitely think class time is a waste. She is beginning to see this as well. This is doubly true if all I/she cares for is a P. YMMV, of course.

How'd you end up getting the internship? Just reaching out via school organizations? Are employers fine with you interning at their firm while in school? I assume these are all not-for-pay type gigs, right?


I got my internship through a post on my school's symplicity. Mine is actually paid in the $40/hour range....I am very happy with it. I didn't see any others like it posted, but you could just email the GC's offices of all the public companies in NYC and see if they take interns. If you are at Y you can look at the Goldman opportunity. Career Services might be able to hook you up with some other in-house opportunities. Neither my school nor my employer had a problem with me doing school and the job at the same time. If your GF already has an SA, she can check with the firm to see if they would keep her on during the year.

Sure, you can learn everything you need to know to get a decent grade in a short period (less than 2 weeks, IMO....maybe like three or four days). I personally just think it is a waste to never go to class unless you have extenuating circumstances like you are an unemployed 3L who has to focus on working a bunch of internships in the hopes of turning one into a permanent position or something. Also, your post makes it sound like you are forcing this view on your GF ("she is beginning to see this as well"), maybe because you want her to be in NYC next year with you? I don't know. But try to keep her best interests at heart, too...

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Re: Possible to get a 3L internship in NY while skippin classes?

Postby Renzo » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:56 pm

I did exactly what your SO is considering. I took a part-time job, and worked the hours I was supposed to be in a lecture. I got a couple old outlines, read the casebook cover-to-cover, and did about as well as I probably would have done had I gone to class.

I felt a bit bad and was a bit embarrassed about running into the professor, who was a genuinely awesome person. But otherwise, it was 100% the right decision. I learned far more from working than I missed out on learning by skipping class.

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Re: Possible to get a 3L internship in NY while skippin classes?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:36 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
somewhatwayward wrote:Yes, it is possible as in some people stay on at their firms during the school year and there are a plethora of internships available in NYC. If she goes to Yale, there is a special Yale-only program where Goldman Sachs hires one (maybe more?) Yale 3L as an intern. You are at Yale for your classes three days a week or whatever and then come to NYC on the other two days to work at Goldman. I know the person doing it this year. Besides that there are also other internships. I am doing an in-house internship right now with a big company in the city, but I go to CLS so I am still able to go to classes.

I get where you are coming from about 3L year but I still personally think the idea of completely leaving the school for 95% of the semester is kinda stupid. If she could make it so she is there for part of the time and put all her classes in then and then comes to the NYC for the other days of the week, that seems better, especially if this is Yale since it isn't that far to commute. I have heard stories about people who spent their entire 3L year traveling or whatever, but as useless as it is, I still think you should try to be around for most of it.


Great info -- thanks. I've honestly been able to skip the vast majority of my classes and learn all the necessary material in 2 intensive weeks via excellent outline and notes, so I definitely think class time is a waste. She is beginning to see this as well. This is doubly true if all I/she cares for is a P. YMMV, of course.

How'd you end up getting the internship? Just reaching out via school organizations? Are employers fine with you interning at their firm while in school? I assume these are all not-for-pay type gigs, right?


I got my internship through a post on my school's symplicity. Mine is actually paid in the $40/hour range....I am very happy with it. I didn't see any others like it posted, but you could just email the GC's offices of all the public companies in NYC and see if they take interns. If you are at Y you can look at the Goldman opportunity. Career Services might be able to hook you up with some other in-house opportunities. Neither my school nor my employer had a problem with me doing school and the job at the same time. If your GF already has an SA, she can check with the firm to see if they would keep her on during the year.

Sure, you can learn everything you need to know to get a decent grade in a short period (less than 2 weeks, IMO....maybe like three or four days). I personally just think it is a waste to never go to class unless you have extenuating circumstances like you are an unemployed 3L who has to focus on working a bunch of internships in the hopes of turning one into a permanent position or something. Also, your post makes it sound like you are forcing this view on your GF ("she is beginning to see this as well"), maybe because you want her to be in NYC next year with you? I don't know. But try to keep her best interests at heart, too...


Great information again -- thanks! She has a SA lined up, and will check with them to see if there is a chance she can stay on during the year in some capacity.

As for the wisdom of class attendance, I suppose we diverge then on its merits vis-a-vis other opportunities. While I can't speak for her (although I assume she shares a similar opinion), attending class is designed primarily to better understand the subject matter around which the course revolves. If this goal can be fully achieved instead through rapid studying of well-designed outlines and notes corresponding to the class, then the primarily goal of attending class is rendered moot -- and thus attending class becomes unnecessary. Even if it wasn't rendered moot, there is a cost to attending class that does not extend to studying through outlines and notes: the costs of 1) time spent in the classroom and 2) traveling there. Working in NY provides significant benefits for her -- both in potential money earned and definitely experience gained. Although working in NY may not be mutually exclusive with classroom attendance, the problems of distance and time make it difficult to succeed at both. As such, it makes sense to take a relatively good, you may say imperfect, substitute for classroom learning -- studying via well-designed outlines and notes -- to eliminate the aforementioned costs and retain the benefits of working in NY.

Given the numerous articles emerging in the NYT on how 3L is being increasingly seen as a waste of time and tuition, I don't think my view is anomalous or dangerous; many of my peers share this view, and so do the educators at NYU. On the contrary, I think getting a head start doing relevant legal work is a vast improvement compared to in-class learning.

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Re: Possible to get a 3L internship in NY while skippin classes?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:54 pm

I know a lot of people at YLS who do this, although most of them don't skip classes and instead do the M-W or T-Th schedule. This is totally doable and these students are active on campus. I imagine that Harvard is an entirely different beast because there's no commuter rail and I can't imagine that moving to NY from there is a good idea.

Also, nobody I know who is doing this is interning at their biglaw firm (why would somebody do that? She's going to be there anyway after graduation, why not use the time to build meaningful connections in other fields/interests? It's not like working part time for a few semesters is going to give her a leg up on the partnership track - or make a huge dent in her loans).

Classes at YLS (and I presume HLS) might be largely useless, but there are still unparalleled networking opportunities that she is unlikely to connect with if she's in New York all the time. It's also difficult to understate the extent to which our classmates will be our colleagues in the future - there's a real advantage to spending another year having fun and socializing with them.

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Re: Possible to get a 3L internship in NY while skippin classes?

Postby Pokemon » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:51 am

Btw, is this not allowed due to ABA regulations. I thought they had recently made rules about attendance.

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Re: Possible to get a 3L internship in NY while skippin classes?

Postby Borhas » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:16 am

A school without a full time clinic is TTT as hell

Seriously though, why not? 3l is a huge waste of time for everyone everywhere

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Re: Possible to get a 3L internship in NY while skippin classes?

Postby LawIdiot86 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:01 am

I wouldn't recommend she pursue the internship. She's already "won" law school by going to H/Y. At this point, her danger is more about messing up her golden ticket than it is about finding a way not to be bored. Even if you assume there are no fulltime clinics, what about an RA position? Or teaching LSAT review classes. Or working for a local DA/PD. There has to be something she can do locally without messing up her grades, networking, or other opportunities.

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Re: Possible to get a 3L internship in NY while skippin classes?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:05 am

Regarding skipping classes: I have the worst class attendance of anyone I know, to the point where I ended up getting an informal warning from two professors about an ABA requirement to attend a minimum number of classes in order to get credit for the course. Yet my attendance wasn't as bad as what you're thinking of doing.

Pokemon wrote:Also, why does she not do that whole 3-rd year in another school thing. Go to a NYC school, go to classes, and work. The idea of missing classes just like that seems to me an unnecessary invitation for trouble. The degree will still be from HY.

I am surprised this excellent advise is being ignored. I know a couple of people who did exactly that, mostly to be with their SOs. Apply to be a visiting student at an NYC school for your third year. As noted above, your degree will remain from HY.

Also, nobody I know who is doing this is interning at their biglaw firm (why would somebody do that? She's going to be there anyway after graduation, why not use the time to build meaningful connections in other fields/interests? It's not like working part time for a few semesters is going to give her a leg up on the partnership track - or make a huge dent in her loans).

Actually, it might. Being a student associate at my SA firm gets credited toward partnership: a year of work for half a year's credit.

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Re: Possible to get a 3L internship in NY while skippin classes?

Postby IAFG » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:20 am

I suppose it would vary from professor to professor but I think you could get away with this at NU pretty easily. I assume she hasn't done well enough to be concerned about latin honors. At that point, experience is going to be worth more than another semester of striving.

Some firms let former summers work at an hourly rate. I know two people personally who did that as 3Ls.

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Re: Possible to get a 3L internship in NY while skippin classes?

Postby somewhatwayward » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
somewhatwayward wrote:I got my internship through a post on my school's symplicity. Mine is actually paid in the $40/hour range....I am very happy with it. I didn't see any others like it posted, but you could just email the GC's offices of all the public companies in NYC and see if they take interns. If you are at Y you can look at the Goldman opportunity. Career Services might be able to hook you up with some other in-house opportunities. Neither my school nor my employer had a problem with me doing school and the job at the same time. If your GF already has an SA, she can check with the firm to see if they would keep her on during the year.

Sure, you can learn everything you need to know to get a decent grade in a short period (less than 2 weeks, IMO....maybe like three or four days). I personally just think it is a waste to never go to class unless you have extenuating circumstances like you are an unemployed 3L who has to focus on working a bunch of internships in the hopes of turning one into a permanent position or something. Also, your post makes it sound like you are forcing this view on your GF ("she is beginning to see this as well"), maybe because you want her to be in NYC next year with you? I don't know. But try to keep her best interests at heart, too...


Great information again -- thanks! She has a SA lined up, and will check with them to see if there is a chance she can stay on during the year in some capacity.

As for the wisdom of class attendance, I suppose we diverge then on its merits vis-a-vis other opportunities. While I can't speak for her (although I assume she shares a similar opinion), attending class is designed primarily to better understand the subject matter around which the course revolves. If this goal can be fully achieved instead through rapid studying of well-designed outlines and notes corresponding to the class, then the primarily goal of attending class is rendered moot -- and thus attending class becomes unnecessary. Even if it wasn't rendered moot, there is a cost to attending class that does not extend to studying through outlines and notes: the costs of 1) time spent in the classroom and 2) traveling there. Working in NY provides significant benefits for her -- both in potential money earned and definitely experience gained. Although working in NY may not be mutually exclusive with classroom attendance, the problems of distance and time make it difficult to succeed at both. As such, it makes sense to take a relatively good, you may say imperfect, substitute for classroom learning -- studying via well-designed outlines and notes -- to eliminate the aforementioned costs and retain the benefits of working in NY.

Given the numerous articles emerging in the NYT on how 3L is being increasingly seen as a waste of time and tuition, I don't think my view is anomalous or dangerous; many of my peers share this view, and so do the educators at NYU. On the contrary, I think getting a head start doing relevant legal work is a vast improvement compared to in-class learning.


One other thing regarding working at her firm (if this isn't already obvious): I would wait until after I got an offer to ask to work during the school year. It is kinda putting the cart before the horse and could seem presumptuous. In some ways I wish i had asked my firm if I could work there during the year but I am also happy with what I am doing now especially since it gives me some in-house experience, which is what I may end up doing after I leave my firm.




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