Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

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Anonymous User
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:49 pm

Physical appearance matters. It would have been different if this was a technical degree, and your friend was a PhD, where she could have used her specific knowledge for the particular skill-set required in the job.
However, most of law job interviews are behavioral, not technical, that means a ton of discretion on the hiring person, that means appearance matters.

BeautifulSW
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby BeautifulSW » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:10 pm

I have been involved with public sector hiring for years and I wish I could tell you that appearance doesn't matter. But it does. In fact, it can matter a lot depending on the needs of the employer and the level of unattractiveness the applicant possesses. This applies to male as well as female applicants, too.

It's not so much whether the applicant conforms to a given societal standard so much as that attractive people, particularly attractive young people, tend to know that they are attractive and are more confident during interviews. Confidence inspires confidence. Unattractive young people often seem to expect rejection and behave accordingly.

"Attractive", by the way, seems to have more to do with "fit and active" than bone structure or a perfect skin or artful use of makeup. But not entirely.

This is (of course) only my own opinion based on my own subjective experiences and speculations.

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thelawyler
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby thelawyler » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:28 am

BeautifulSW wrote:I have been involved with public sector hiring for years and I wish I could tell you that appearance doesn't matter. But it does. In fact, it can matter a lot depending on the needs of the employer and the level of unattractiveness the applicant possesses. This applies to male as well as female applicants, too.

It's not so much whether the applicant conforms to a given societal standard so much as that attractive people, particularly attractive young people, tend to know that they are attractive and are more confident during interviews. Confidence inspires confidence. Unattractive young people often seem to expect rejection and behave accordingly.

"Attractive", by the way, seems to have more to do with "fit and active" than bone structure or a perfect skin or artful use of makeup. But not entirely.

This is (of course) only my own opinion based on my own subjective experiences and speculations.


Thanks beautiful.

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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:41 am

What are the top deal breakers for males during interviews?

cgw
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby cgw » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:46 am

BeautifulSW wrote:It's not so much whether the applicant conforms to a given societal standard so much as that attractive people, particularly attractive young people, tend to know that they are attractive and are more confident during interviews. Confidence inspires confidence. Unattractive young people often seem to expect rejection and behave accordingly.

"Attractive", by the way, seems to have more to do with "fit and active" than bone structure or a perfect skin or artful use of makeup. But not entirely.

This is (of course) only my own opinion based on my own subjective experiences and speculations.


Hm. I think this is certainly a common stereotype that seems logical and thus people tend to expect a certain correlation between attractiveness and confidence, but I'm not sure it's actually true. It certainly hasn't been the case in my personal experience that attractive individuals are more confident and vice versa. But I've never been an interviewer and I don't have any evidence either way.

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thelawyler
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby thelawyler » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:47 am

cgw wrote:
BeautifulSW wrote:It's not so much whether the applicant conforms to a given societal standard so much as that attractive people, particularly attractive young people, tend to know that they are attractive and are more confident during interviews. Confidence inspires confidence. Unattractive young people often seem to expect rejection and behave accordingly.

"Attractive", by the way, seems to have more to do with "fit and active" than bone structure or a perfect skin or artful use of makeup. But not entirely.

This is (of course) only my own opinion based on my own subjective experiences and speculations.


Hm. I think this is certainly a common stereotype that seems logical and thus people tend to expect a certain correlation between attractiveness and confidence, but I'm not sure it's actually true. It certainly hasn't been the case in my personal experience that attractive individuals are more confident and vice versa. But I've never been an interviewer and I don't have any evidence either way.


Well, confidence is attractive, so perhaps the causation is reversed in a lot of cases.

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dingbat
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby dingbat » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:59 am

BeautifulSW wrote:"Attractive", by the way, seems to have more to do with "fit and active" than bone structure or a perfect skin or artful use of makeup. But not entirely.

what the fuck? Of course physical fitness has a lot to do with attractiveness. In the dark all people are beautiful, but fat is still fat

deliriousxix
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby deliriousxix » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:42 am

I don't think an unattractive face will necessarily put her out of the running, unless she looks unkempt or like she doesn't take care of herself. I see it more so as a bump for attractive people (unless you are a female, in some cases) rather than a disadvantage for those less attractive.

However, I think being super heavy could definitely work against your friend. Is she not making any effort to lose that weight? If I were an interviewer I would assume somebody that heavy is lazy and/or doesn't care about how others perceive her. I know that sounds callous and some people just have bad genetics, but she should really try to get in the gym/change her eating habits for not just the sake of her potential career prospects, but also her health.

meliketoparty
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby meliketoparty » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:42 pm

Unfortunately, appearance does matter. As we all know, there are great health benefits to being physically fit, not to mention not having to worry quite as much while you're interviewing.

That being said, even if your friend carries some weight in her face, she can polish her appearance as much as possible: styling her hair, even if it's short, will help. There a lots of good demonstration videos on youtube for hairstyles. If it's still too short, start growing it out. Also, makeup application. If makeup isn't her thing, see a professional for a professional application. Go see them before the interviews & find someone who does it well with a not-too-heavy hand. You can also have a makeup artist give you an application lesson. Nails - polished. A good suit that is tailored. Projecting a pulled-together, polished image can really assist in getting people to overcome judgements about weight. Even when a candidate is fit and attractive, people who come in with uncombed hair, ill-fitting clothes, etc. won't be helping their cause. All of this costs money, of course, but it is for a very good cause - future employment.


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BarcaCrossesTheAlps
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby BarcaCrossesTheAlps » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:14 pm

.... I'm a 0L and have no experience in this whatsoever, however, from the people I know who attend law school and the bio pics on the firm websites I've seen I can hardly believe appearance, as in "good looks," can possibly matter. The overwhelming majority of women I've seen in law are bland, "meh," looking at best, and hideous at worst. I'm no Romeo, but I feel "handsome" compared to most of the men I've seen in law.

So, is this "appearance" thing relative to the legal meat market, as it were? Or are there firms with Kathy Irelands and Brad Pitts running around...?

Oh, and post more pics of fat chicks, please... :shock:

PMan99
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby PMan99 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What are the top deal breakers for males during interviews?


The TLS consensus would be not wearing Allen Edmonds.

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Lasers
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby Lasers » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:15 am

PMan99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What are the top deal breakers for males during interviews?


The TLS consensus would be not wearing Allen Edmonds.

and wearing a black suit during an interview.

KidStuddi
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby KidStuddi » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:34 pm

Lasers wrote:
PMan99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What are the top deal breakers for males during interviews?


The TLS consensus would be not wearing Allen Edmonds.

and wearing a black suit during an interview.


The black suit one still baffles me. I honestly thought it was an inside joke I just didn't get for like 3 months, and then I slowly realized people here actually thought this matters.

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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby IAFG » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:15 am

KidStuddi wrote:
Lasers wrote:
PMan99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What are the top deal breakers for males during interviews?


The TLS consensus would be not wearing Allen Edmonds.

and wearing a black suit during an interview.


The black suit one still baffles me. I honestly thought it was an inside joke I just didn't get for like 3 months, and then I slowly realized people here actually thought this matters.

It's not just people here.

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Lasers
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby Lasers » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:49 am

KidStuddi wrote:
Lasers wrote:
PMan99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What are the top deal breakers for males during interviews?


The TLS consensus would be not wearing Allen Edmonds.

and wearing a black suit during an interview.


The black suit one still baffles me. I honestly thought it was an inside joke I just didn't get for like 3 months, and then I slowly realized people here actually thought this matters.

i gotta say, while i often see working professionals and even interviewees wearing black suits (YES BLACK, NOT CHARCOAL OR DARK NAVY; I USED A MAGNIFYING GLASS UNDER NATURAL SUNLIGHT), i think tls is generally right in advising someone not to wear black.

but in the real world, not nearly as many people actually give a fuck as we may often think.

KidStuddi
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby KidStuddi » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:09 am

IAFG wrote:i gotta say, while i often see working professionals and even interviewees wearing black suits (YES BLACK, NOT CHARCOAL OR DARK NAVY; I USED A MAGNIFYING GLASS UNDER NATURAL SUNLIGHT), i think tls is generally right in advising someone not to wear black.

but in the real world, not nearly as many people actually give a fuck as we may often think.


It's more the way people talk about it as being a hard and fast rule. From the people around here you'd think it was written in fashion or business gospel somewhere and that wearing a black suit is being as clueless as showing up to your interview in sneakers or a suit that's 4 sizes too big. It's not. Avoiding black during the day is a style suggestion for pasty white guys because pasty white guys don't generally look very good in black during the daytime.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby Scotusnerd » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:32 am

Man, there are some assholes in this thread. :? Fat is NOT just fat.

If she wants to work on anything besides weight (and grades), clothes choice, makeup and accessories are essential. As someone who has a sister something like OP, I can tell you that you can hide a LOT with good taste and careful clothes choice. Don't get things with horizontal stripes, get things with vertical stripes, clothes that put attention away from your middle, that sort of thing. It depends on your shape.

There is ZERO excuse for looking like a fat slob. Not when you can be stylish.

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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby Lwoods » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:03 am

KidStuddi wrote:
Lasers wrote:i gotta say, while i often see working professionals and even interviewees wearing black suits (YES BLACK, NOT CHARCOAL OR DARK NAVY; I USED A MAGNIFYING GLASS UNDER NATURAL SUNLIGHT), i think tls is generally right in advising someone not to wear black.

but in the real world, not nearly as many people actually give a fuck as we may often think.


It's more the way people talk about it as being a hard and fast rule. From the people around here you'd think it was written in fashion or business gospel somewhere and that wearing a black suit is being as clueless as showing up to your interview in sneakers or a suit that's 4 sizes too big. It's not. Avoiding black during the day is a style suggestion for pasty white guys because pasty white guys don't generally look very good in black during the daytime.


It was fashion gospel at one point, a point many senior partners still think is now. Black suits on men (according to the old school rule) are for the servants and the dead. Now, it may have been invented by pasty white guys because it's an unflattering look, but we endorse it because it's an easy rule to play on the safe side.

Anyway, I think looks can play a role, but personality will probably matter more. If she has credentials they like, they'll be looking to see if she's someone they'd like to work with. Maybe some people prefer working with attractive people, subconsciously that may be the case for most people, I don't know. However, she shouldn't fret as much about her appearance (make an effort, but don't go crazy) as about making connections that make her the most attractive candidate overall.

luv2luvmyalf
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby luv2luvmyalf » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:08 pm

Some of the things people have said here make me sick, although the fact that most of them are true is the most sickening of all.

I am a 3L at a T30 school, ranked 5th in the class. I'm male, 5'9 and roughly 270 lbs. I weigh less today than I did in high school. My doctor says I am in the normal range for cholesterol, blood sugar, all the other lipids, and basically everything.

I got no-offered after summering at a big-law firm and I realized they wanted "beautiful people" who will be the high society of their city in 10 years. I'm also already 36, so I wouldn't be in that group no matter what I looked like.

My note is about to come out in the law review; it's on weight discrimination, and it's fairly personal. I realize nobody will hire me and I just don't care anymore. I've spent my whole life trying to lose weight, and I guarantee you I eat less than the average person here. Google Jeffrey Friedman, and if you know anything about genetics, look at his heritability research. Weight is about as heritable as height and is moreso than lots of things we think of as genetic conditions -- cancer, heart disease, schizophrenia.

This doesn't mean there aren't people who are fat because they sit on their ass and eat jelly donuts, I know there are, though its possible they sit on their ass and eat jelly donuts because of society's treatment of their predisposition to be fat. But to assume that a person is lazy because they are fat is no better than to assume that based on their race, nationality, gender, or any other characteristic.

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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby Pokemon » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:22 pm

KidStuddi wrote:
Lasers wrote:
PMan99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What are the top deal breakers for males during interviews?


The TLS consensus would be not wearing Allen Edmonds.

and wearing a black suit during an interview.


The black suit one still baffles me. I honestly thought it was an inside joke I just didn't get for like 3 months, and then I slowly realized people here actually thought this matters.


Nobody in Suits wears a black suit, except the annoying one.

luv2luvmyalf
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby luv2luvmyalf » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:42 pm

Also, if you think it's okay for appearance to be given the central role it is, read Stanford Prof Deborah Rhode's brilliant law review article "The Injustice of Appearance." It demonstrates how much this ridiculous bias costs society.

http://www.stanfordlawreview.org/sites/ ... /Rhode.pdf

Myself
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.

Postby Myself » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:15 pm

.
Last edited by Myself on Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

luv2luvmyalf
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby luv2luvmyalf » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:51 pm

I don't think anything in my post suggested that I thought it didn't exist or planned on ignoring it. Quite the contrary, in fact. However, I don't plan to accept it either. And, as I stated, I've spent my life trying to adjust accordingly and it's never going to work, so it's time to fight back.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Does physical appearance play a role in the hiring process?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:09 am

luv2luvmyalf wrote:I don't think anything in my post suggested that I thought it didn't exist or planned on ignoring it. Quite the contrary, in fact. However, I don't plan to accept it either. And, as I stated, I've spent my life trying to adjust accordingly and it's never going to work, so it's time to fight back.


This is really terrible. I hope you are able to rebound from this, and continue to apply. Given your grades you should get more chances.

Btw, I don't know if you've considered this, but you might want to correspond with Paul campos since his two areas of expertise are myths about obesity and the law.




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