Serious C&F issue/screw up

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273050
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:11 pm

So when I was 17 I snuck into an abandoned paper mill with a couple friends and we took a gas mask. We ended up getting charged with burglary They offered me a deferred prosecution and I completed the required community service and probation. I was told by my attorney that if I stayed out of trouble until I was 21 it would be like it never happened. She also told me that I did not have to answer yes on applications that asked about a conviction or charge because I was a juvenile and went through the deferment process.

Long story short I answered no on my law school application for the criminal background question. After reading more into it and hearing from other students I am regretting this decision and am afraid it may seriously come back to bite me. I am hoping that taking care of this as soon as possible will be my best option and is the best damage control for C&F. My questions are how screwed am I and what the hell should I do now?

User avatar
kiwi4president
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:09 pm

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby kiwi4president » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:27 pm

Ya blew it. Nah in all seriousness you should have disclosed in the beginning. The incident would likely have had little effect on your admissions because you were a minor. There is an easy way to fix it though, contact all of the offices and let them know you made a mistake and disclose the incident. Mention that an attorney advised you not to disclose the event but upon further thinking you decided that it would be worthwhile to let them know. It probably won't effect their decisions but you need to disclose now to prevent some later problems with your state's bar association.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273050
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:30 pm

OP Here

I just realized I didnt make it clear that i am a 1L.

LawIdiot86
Posts: 1159
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:21 pm

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby LawIdiot86 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP Here

I just realized I didnt make it clear that i am a 1L.

Most law schools let you amend your application even after you matriculate. It'll be noted as an amendment and may subject you to the school's disciplinary code if they think you did it on purpose, but it's better than having nothing there when the c+f look.

User avatar
thesealocust
Posts: 8441
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby thesealocust » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:04 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP Here

I just realized I didnt make it clear that i am a 1L.

Most law schools let you amend your application even after you matriculate. It'll be noted as an amendment and may subject you to the school's disciplinary code if they think you did it on purpose, but it's better than having nothing there when the c+f look.


This. Not a big deal.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273050
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:15 pm

thanks guys i was really freakin the f out after hearing some nightmare stories... I think i will set a meeting up with a dean afte break and pray for forgivness

pasteurizedmilk
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:12 pm

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:41 am

does the LS app ask about arrests or only convictions?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273050
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:47 am

pasteurizedmilk wrote:does the LS app ask about arrests or only convictions?


arrested, charged with, or convicted

I dont think there is anyway around saying it fell into this category...just made the dumb decision of relying on what a lawyer told me several years earlier without researching it further. TBH I didn't even think of it at all really b/c I had always answered no and it has never been an issue (including when applying for positions which required fed background checks).

Anonymous User
Posts: 273050
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:36 am

thesealocust wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP Here

I just realized I didnt make it clear that i am a 1L.

Most law schools let you amend your application even after you matriculate. It'll be noted as an amendment and may subject you to the school's disciplinary code if they think you did it on purpose, but it's better than having nothing there when the c+f look.


This. Not a big deal.


Yup. Let them know and you'll be fine. If you hide it until you graduate you're fucked. We actually had an orientation session that said, essentially, 'please just let us know about stuff you failed to report, we won't care, you just have to let use know before you finish 3L.'

Anonymous User
Posts: 273050
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP Here

I just realized I didnt make it clear that i am a 1L.

Most law schools let you amend your application even after you matriculate. It'll be noted as an amendment and may subject you to the school's disciplinary code if they think you did it on purpose, but it's better than having nothing there when the c+f look.


This. Not a big deal.


Yup. Let them know and you'll be fine. If you hide it until you graduate you're fucked. We actually had an orientation session that said, essentially, 'please just let us know about stuff you failed to report, we won't care, you just have to let use know before you finish 3L.'


Outstanding ya i figure it would look better to say something now also I heard the school can revoke your admission...I figure they will be less likely to do this if they can still get 2 1/2 of tuition out of me as apposed to when ive already graduated lol

User avatar
20160810
Posts: 19648
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:18 pm

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby 20160810 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:25 pm

I think reliance on the advice of counsel is a pretty good defense for you here. You're going to be fine. Just disclose it on C&F.

User avatar
Br3v
Posts: 4174
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:18 pm

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby Br3v » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:29 pm

SBL wrote:I think reliance on the advice of counsel is a pretty good defense for you here. You're going to be fine. Just disclose it on C&F.


OP disclose now and I think you will be good (at least better than not disclosing now). But SBL, I am hesitant to agree with you being that most schools question specifically state that regardless of what you may have been told by anyone including counsel you need to disclose.

But OP I'm not trying to scare you, own up now and you should be ok.

User avatar
20160810
Posts: 19648
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:18 pm

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby 20160810 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:34 pm

Br3v wrote:
SBL wrote:I think reliance on the advice of counsel is a pretty good defense for you here. You're going to be fine. Just disclose it on C&F.


OP disclose now and I think you will be good (at least better than not disclosing now). But SBL, I am hesitant to agree with you being that most schools question specifically state that regardless of what you may have been told by anyone including counsel you need to disclose.

But OP I'm not trying to scare you, own up now and you should be ok.

I mean, I'm not giving OP legal advice here, I'm just saying he'll probably be fine as long as he comes clean now.

uvabro
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:44 pm

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby uvabro » Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:40 pm

i was once handcuffed and given a ticket for disorderly conduct. i thought it was bullshit because i was just debating with the cop about pushing my gf at the time. they were breaking up a party.

i argued in my defense bec i didn't want my parents to find out, and the judge dismissed the case in about 2 minutes.

i disclosed only to schools that asked about convictions, and i feel it helped me at some schools with scholarship $, and hurt me slightly at others. i didn't disclose at my schools bec it only asked about convictions. been debating if i f'd up too.

NotMyRealName09
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:50 pm

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:10 pm

Disclose now via amendment, no one will care.

C&F might care, however, if you don't amend now but then tell C&F about it. They'll compare it to your law school application and ask you to explain the discrepancy between your LS app and your bar app.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273050
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:37 pm

Hey I have appreciated everyones help so far...I have been in contact with a prof who deals with C&F issues at my school he advised me to draft and amendment and was wondering what you guys thought of this

Dear Ms. (Registrar):

I am currently a 1L at XXX and wish to amend the application I submitted for fall of 2012.

Under the “Character and Fitness” section of the application I erroneously answered “no” to the question “have you ever been charged or convicted of a felony, misdemeanor, or other crime? It has come to my attention that my answer may be viewed as deceptive given my background.

When I was seventeen I broke into an abandoned paper mill with several friends. While in operation, the paper mill had its own fire department and most of the equipment was left there when the mill shut down. We found this equipment and took several gas masks. We were eventually caught with the gas masks and charged with burglary.

The prosecutor offered to defer prosecution since this was the first time I had been charged with a crime. I completed the required community service and probation and the charges were dismissed. I learned a great deal from this experience including personal responsibility and accountability, but my attorney, at the time, advised me that since I was a minor and completed all the requirements of deferred prosecution, I would not have to disclose the matter on future applications.

I have always answered no when asked on employment applications about a conviction and have passed several background checks, so I answered “no” on the school’s application, assuming that it would not be an issue. After learning more about the XXX State Bar Association’s character and fitness review process, and researching the matter further, I believe that amending my application and having this letter added to my file will alleviate any perception of impropriety.


Sincerely,
XXX

User avatar
TTH
Posts: 10376
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 1:14 am

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby TTH » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey I have appreciated everyones help so far...I have been in contact with a prof who deals with C&F issues at my school he advised me to draft and amendment and was wondering what you guys thought of this

The prosecutor offered to defer prosecution since this was the first time I had been charged with a crime. I completed the required community service and probation and the charges were dismissed. I learned a great deal from this experience including personal responsibility and accountability, but my attorney, at the time, advised me that since I was a minor and completed all the requirements of deferred prosecution, I would not have to disclose the matter on future applications.


Sincerely,
XXX


Overall, I think it looks good, although if you're talking to a professor about it, I'd go ahead and run it by him or her as well. My only revision would be to omit the bolded. Whenever I see this kind of statement in something C&F-related, I always think its insincere. Also, I would consider throwing in an apology of some sort for your oversight. You're on the right track. Good luck dood.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273050
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:51 pm

TTH wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hey I have appreciated everyones help so far...I have been in contact with a prof who deals with C&F issues at my school he advised me to draft and amendment and was wondering what you guys thought of this

The prosecutor offered to defer prosecution since this was the first time I had been charged with a crime. I completed the required community service and probation and the charges were dismissed. I learned a great deal from this experience including personal responsibility and accountability, but my attorney, at the time, advised me that since I was a minor and completed all the requirements of deferred prosecution, I would not have to disclose the matter on future applications.


Sincerely,
XXX


Overall, I think it looks good, although if you're talking to a professor about it, I'd go ahead and run it by him or her as well. My only revision would be to omit the bolded. Whenever I see this kind of statement in something C&F-related, I always think its insincere. Also, I would consider throwing in an apology of some sort for your oversight. You're on the right track. Good luck dood.


Ya I felt kinda cheesy adding that line. I am for sure going to send it to the prof, he has been very helpful so far and I wanted to make sure I had something solid to send him so I wasnt waisting his time.

So after the last paragraph would something like "I apologize for the omission and any inconvenience this has caused, but I truly appreciate your assistance with the matter" be enough?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273050
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:52 pm

OP, if it helps put your mind at ease, I did the same thing (failed to disclose a juvenile charge that was subject to deferment and dismissed). I literally didn't even think about it until my 2L year, when I happened to read the application again and noticed that it specifically required disclosure of "charges" -- my attorney had told me not to disclose this incident on anything, ever. But I think even she failed to take into account law school and bar applications when she gave me those instructions.

I went straight to the registrar/dean and they didn't care at all. They told me to submit an amendment, which is now in my file, and nothing ever came of it. The amendment I wrote reads like yours, except that I added the specific state statute that sealed/dismissed my case. I am on track to graduate in good standing.

For the Bar C&F, which you will have to deal with in a few years, you should goto the local courthouse and get a certificate of disposition, because they may want to see evidence that the case was resolved in your favor (dismissed without conviction).

HTH

User avatar
stillwater
Posts: 3811
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:59 pm

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby stillwater » Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:57 pm

Schools let murderers in

LawIdiot86
Posts: 1159
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:21 pm

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby LawIdiot86 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:17 pm

stillwater wrote:Schools let murderers in

Oddly, I suspect the bar examiners would be more concerned with a conviction for a crime related to deceit or fraud, like if you had been convicted of perjury or identity theft, than they would with a conviction for a physical assault.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22773
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:21 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:
stillwater wrote:Schools let murderers in

Oddly, I suspect the bar examiners would be more concerned with a conviction for a crime related to deceit or fraud, like if you had been convicted of perjury or identity theft, than they would with a conviction for a physical assault.

I think anything to do with embezzlement/otherwise stealing someone else's money is the biggest red flag. Assault? Eh.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273050
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:56 pm

So I was working on my bar application, and I had a ticket about a year ago for going on a wrong way road (I didn't even realize it! Sign was very hard to see). Anyways the ticket ended up being for $130. I was going to contest it, but then I have to teach during the times so I decided just to pay the fine and be done with it!

Well when I went to look up the details to record the information, I found the court docket that said I paid the fine. But then it says I was also convicted of a petty misdemeanor!!

Will this reflect badly on my character and fitness portion, considering it happened about 14 months ago? I only had one other thing to report, which was a speeding ticket about 6 years ago. I was looking up online how it is possible to petition to expunge, but I'm not sure if it is really worth the time and expense. FYI I have found a job and housing since the incident so I don't think it is that big of a deal. However, I would like some assurance!

User avatar
kuttlefish
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:29 pm

Re: Serious C&F issue/screw up

Postby kuttlefish » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:32 pm

uvabro wrote:i was once handcuffed and given a ticket for disorderly conduct. i thought it was bullshit because i was just debating with the cop about pushing my gf at the time. they were breaking up a party.


this made me lol. Sorry nothing to add to the thread.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.