Easiest bar exams

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overbroad99
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Easiest bar exams

Postby overbroad99 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:42 pm

Is there any source of wisdom about the bar exams that require the least preparation? If I just want to get through the test but I'm going to have a busy summer with limited time to prepare.

Anonymous User
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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:14 pm

overbroad99 wrote:Is there any source of wisdom about the bar exams that require the least preparation? If I just want to get through the test but I'm going to have a busy summer with limited time to prepare.


Maybe states using the Uniform Bar Exam (UBE) since there's no state specific law to learn in addition to common law you need to learn for the Multistate Bar Exam (MBE). States using the UBE include Alabama, Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Utah, Washington, and Wyoming.

Take this with a grain of salt since I didn't take the bar in a UBE state, but studied alongside friends who did and they had less material to cover in general. Also, just curious but what are you doing this summer that you can't prioritize studying for the bar??

bbmic45
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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby bbmic45 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:22 pm

Define limited. For example, if you're planning on working full-time or have similar commitments, I think it'd be very tough to pass any bar exam, even the "easiest" ones.

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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:59 pm

bbmic45 wrote:Define limited. For example, if you're planning on working full-time or have similar commitments, I think it'd be very tough to pass any bar exam, even the "easiest" ones.


Curious about everyone's thoughts on this, I've worked for a bulge bracket bank throughout lawschool but I don't want to endanger my big law potential offer after my summer so I was wondering how much you actually need to study beyond barbri... I would probably take off for 2-3 weeks for the exam but do you guys think that's sufficient? I historically do well on exams with shorter than average prep times. It'd be pretty challengting to have to quit early to take the exam as several months pay is pretty significant when you have a significant other plus kids at home... That said, no debt etc. so I can probably survive if I had to take off but I'd prefer to keep working through the prep financially...

This would be NY bar with a 50+ hour a week job.

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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
bbmic45 wrote:Define limited. For example, if you're planning on working full-time or have similar commitments, I think it'd be very tough to pass any bar exam, even the "easiest" ones.


Curious about everyone's thoughts on this, I've worked for a bulge bracket bank throughout lawschool but I don't want to endanger my big law potential offer after my summer so I was wondering how much you actually need to study beyond barbri... I would probably take off for 2-3 weeks for the exam but do you guys think that's sufficient? I historically do well on exams with shorter than average prep times. It'd be pretty challengting to have to quit early to take the exam as several months pay is pretty significant when you have a significant other plus kids at home... That said, no debt etc. so I can probably survive if I had to take off but I'd prefer to keep working through the prep financially...

This would be NY bar with a 50+ hour a week job.


LOL nope. Going into the NY bar with that little preparation would be folly. Took NY this summer and passed, but I worked my ass off, especially because there are a shit ton of NY distinctions and they test on any 1 of 19 different subjects.

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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:37 pm

Jersey is supposed to be easier than NY (and the barbri course is cheaper).

Of the DC area, Maryland is supposedly the easiest, followed by VA, then D.C.

In New England, most people speak highly of "Passachusetts" and you can take NY/MA during the same test period if that's desirable.

But unless you are working for the Feds, I'm not sure why you wouldn't take the bar where you'll be practicing.

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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
bbmic45 wrote:Define limited. For example, if you're planning on working full-time or have similar commitments, I think it'd be very tough to pass any bar exam, even the "easiest" ones.


Curious about everyone's thoughts on this, I've worked for a bulge bracket bank throughout lawschool but I don't want to endanger my big law potential offer after my summer so I was wondering how much you actually need to study beyond barbri... I would probably take off for 2-3 weeks for the exam but do you guys think that's sufficient? I historically do well on exams with shorter than average prep times. It'd be pretty challengting to have to quit early to take the exam as several months pay is pretty significant when you have a significant other plus kids at home... That said, no debt etc. so I can probably survive if I had to take off but I'd prefer to keep working through the prep financially...

This would be NY bar with a 50+ hour a week job.


LOL nope. Going into the NY bar with that little preparation would be folly. Took NY this summer and passed, but I worked my ass off, especially because there are a shit ton of NY distinctions and they test on any 1 of 19 different subjects.


Same anon, I had heard that you can pass NY without knowing any of its distinctions if you ace the multistage topics and just use general rules for the rest... Is that true?

I mean even though I go to an NY school, we still end up learning Delaware corporate law etc so that won't help so much will it...

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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:04 pm

Solo i work for spent a week studying for the va bar and passed.

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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
bbmic45 wrote:Define limited. For example, if you're planning on working full-time or have similar commitments, I think it'd be very tough to pass any bar exam, even the "easiest" ones.


Curious about everyone's thoughts on this, I've worked for a bulge bracket bank throughout lawschool but I don't want to endanger my big law potential offer after my summer so I was wondering how much you actually need to study beyond barbri... I would probably take off for 2-3 weeks for the exam but do you guys think that's sufficient? I historically do well on exams with shorter than average prep times. It'd be pretty challengting to have to quit early to take the exam as several months pay is pretty significant when you have a significant other plus kids at home... That said, no debt etc. so I can probably survive if I had to take off but I'd prefer to keep working through the prep financially...

This would be NY bar with a 50+ hour a week job.


LOL nope. Going into the NY bar with that little preparation would be folly. Took NY this summer and passed, but I worked my ass off, especially because there are a shit ton of NY distinctions and they test on any 1 of 19 different subjects.


Same anon, I had heard that you can pass NY without knowing any of its distinctions if you ace the multistage topics and just use general rules for the rest... Is that true?

I mean even though I go to an NY school, we still end up learning Delaware corporate law etc so that won't help so much will it...


Ehhh there are only 6 multistate topics and NY tests on 19 topics or can anyway. Furthermore, the MBE is only worth 40% in NY. So even if you learn the multistate topics really well, that won't get you anywhere with the other 13 topics or with the 50 NY-specific multiple choice questions. And even for the essays, while you can bs some of the law and still get credit, they're going to be testing on way more than the multistate topics.

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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
bbmic45 wrote:Define limited. For example, if you're planning on working full-time or have similar commitments, I think it'd be very tough to pass any bar exam, even the "easiest" ones.


Curious about everyone's thoughts on this, I've worked for a bulge bracket bank throughout lawschool but I don't want to endanger my big law potential offer after my summer so I was wondering how much you actually need to study beyond barbri... I would probably take off for 2-3 weeks for the exam but do you guys think that's sufficient? I historically do well on exams with shorter than average prep times. It'd be pretty challengting to have to quit early to take the exam as several months pay is pretty significant when you have a significant other plus kids at home... That said, no debt etc. so I can probably survive if I had to take off but I'd prefer to keep working through the prep financially...

This would be NY bar with a 50+ hour a week job.


LOL nope. Going into the NY bar with that little preparation would be folly. Took NY this summer and passed, but I worked my ass off, especially because there are a shit ton of NY distinctions and they test on any 1 of 19 different subjects.


Same anon, I had heard that you can pass NY without knowing any of its distinctions if you ace the multistage topics and just use general rules for the rest... Is that true?

I mean even though I go to an NY school, we still end up learning Delaware corporate law etc so that won't help so much will it...


Also, just another thought about the NY bar: depending on which department you're apply to for admission, you can't submit anything for character and fitness until after you know you've passed the bar and the admission process itself takes months even after you've applied. So if you're still looking for employment, you should do everything in your power to make sure you pass the first time around. If you fail and retake in February 2014, you won't get your results till that June and it'll take you that much longer to get admitted, which could really stall your job search.

Anonymous User
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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Curious about everyone's thoughts on this, I've worked for a bulge bracket bank throughout lawschool but I don't want to endanger my big law potential offer after my summer so I was wondering how much you actually need to study beyond barbri... I would probably take off for 2-3 weeks for the exam but do you guys think that's sufficient? I historically do well on exams with shorter than average prep times. It'd be pretty challengting to have to quit early to take the exam as several months pay is pretty significant when you have a significant other plus kids at home... That said, no debt etc. so I can probably survive if I had to take off but I'd prefer to keep working through the prep financially...

This would be NY bar with a 50+ hour a week job.


LOL nope. Going into the NY bar with that little preparation would be folly. Took NY this summer and passed, but I worked my ass off, especially because there are a shit ton of NY distinctions and they test on any 1 of 19 different subjects.


Same anon, I had heard that you can pass NY without knowing any of its distinctions if you ace the multistage topics and just use general rules for the rest... Is that true?

I mean even though I go to an NY school, we still end up learning Delaware corporate law etc so that won't help so much will it...


Also, just another thought about the NY bar: depending on which department you're apply to for admission, you can't submit anything for character and fitness until after you know you've passed the bar and the admission process itself takes months even after you've applied. So if you're still looking for employment, you should do everything in your power to make sure you pass the first time around. If you fail and retake in February 2014, you won't get your results till that June and it'll take you that much longer to get admitted, which could really stall your job search.


Hopefully I'm not the first no offer at the firm I'm planning to go to in a long time then...

How long does it take to get admitted? My friend took the July test and got admitted at the end of November, early December I think.

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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Hopefully I'm not the first no offer at the firm I'm planning to go to in a long time then...

How long does it take to get admitted? My friend took the July test and got admitted at the end of November, early December I think.


Haha I hope not. That would really suck.

It takes a few months because of all the affidavits you need to gather and have notarized, the interview, and take a CLE you need to take. So I'm not sure what to make of your friend already being admitted, at least in NY. We only got our results the first week of November so that seems awfully quick considering that in 3 of the 4 departments for admission you can't even submit your character and fitness application until after it's been certified that you've passed the bar.

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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Hopefully I'm not the first no offer at the firm I'm planning to go to in a long time then...

How long does it take to get admitted? My friend took the July test and got admitted at the end of November, early December I think.


Haha I hope not. That would really suck.

It takes a few months because of all the affidavits you need to gather and have notarized, the interview, and take a CLE you need to take. So I'm not sure what to make of your friend already being admitted, at least in NY. We only got our results the first week of November so that seems awfully quick considering that in 3 of the 4 departments for admission you can't even submit your character and fitness application until after it's been certified that you've passed the bar.


Yep just checked with him, he got confirmed 12/4 but he's working in DC currently.

bbmic45
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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby bbmic45 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
bbmic45 wrote:Define limited. For example, if you're planning on working full-time or have similar commitments, I think it'd be very tough to pass any bar exam, even the "easiest" ones.


Curious about everyone's thoughts on this, I've worked for a bulge bracket bank throughout lawschool but I don't want to endanger my big law potential offer after my summer so I was wondering how much you actually need to study beyond barbri... I would probably take off for 2-3 weeks for the exam but do you guys think that's sufficient? I historically do well on exams with shorter than average prep times. It'd be pretty challengting to have to quit early to take the exam as several months pay is pretty significant when you have a significant other plus kids at home... That said, no debt etc. so I can probably survive if I had to take off but I'd prefer to keep working through the prep financially...

This would be NY bar with a 50+ hour a week job.


I'm sure it's been done, which doesn't mean that it should be. The bar exam isn't hard in that the concepts are not all that hard and you only have to get roughly two-thirds right to be fine on most of them. However, the sheer amount of information you have to memorize makes cramming very very difficult. Bar prep companies recommend around 6 hours a day of study (that's 6 hours of actual quality studying, not 6 hours in front of your books) for 8 weeks. You can get away with a bit less than that, but not much less. This isn't like undergrad where you can cram before finals.

I'm a good test-taker and have always done well on standardized tests with moderate preparation. I passed on my first try in NY. I did 6 hrs a day (usu took Sunday off) for 8 weeks and still felt like there was not enough time. 50 hour work week while bar studying, even if you could take 2 weeks off, seems to be highly inadvisable. I wouldn't feel comfortable pulling more than a 20-30 hour work week and even that would be dicey.

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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:46 pm

bbmic45 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
bbmic45 wrote:Define limited. For example, if you're planning on working full-time or have similar commitments, I think it'd be very tough to pass any bar exam, even the "easiest" ones.


Curious about everyone's thoughts on this, I've worked for a bulge bracket bank throughout lawschool but I don't want to endanger my big law potential offer after my summer so I was wondering how much you actually need to study beyond barbri... I would probably take off for 2-3 weeks for the exam but do you guys think that's sufficient? I historically do well on exams with shorter than average prep times. It'd be pretty challengting to have to quit early to take the exam as several months pay is pretty significant when you have a significant other plus kids at home... That said, no debt etc. so I can probably survive if I had to take off but I'd prefer to keep working through the prep financially...

This would be NY bar with a 50+ hour a week job.


I'm sure it's been done, which doesn't mean that it should be. The bar exam isn't hard in that the concepts are not all that hard and you only have to get roughly two-thirds right to be fine on most of them. However, the sheer amount of information you have to memorize makes cramming very very difficult. Bar prep companies recommend around 6 hours a day of study (that's 6 hours of actual quality studying, not 6 hours in front of your books) for 8 weeks. You can get away with a bit less than that, but not much less. This isn't like undergrad where you can cram before finals.

I'm a good test-taker and have always done well on standardized tests with moderate preparation. I passed on my first try in NY. I did 6 hrs a day (usu took Sunday off) for 8 weeks and still felt like there was not enough time. 50 hour work week while bar studying, even if you could take 2 weeks off, seems to be highly inadvisable. I wouldn't feel comfortable pulling more than a 20-30 hour work week and even that would be dicey.


Thanks for the breakdown, man, not really happy about that news... I've never studied that much for anything in my life, I took the MCAT with just a prep course (didn't do the homework) and like 2 practice tests and ended up like 98 percentile, but I guess there's a lot of topics on the bar. I hope I'll remember enough from law school to not need too much review on the major subjects but I don't think I'll have taken half of the small topics on the NY test.

I just can't imagine studying for 6 hours a day... By the way, Barbri does offer night classes in NY right?

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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby dood » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
bbmic45 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
bbmic45 wrote:Define limited. For example, if you're planning on working full-time or have similar commitments, I think it'd be very tough to pass any bar exam, even the "easiest" ones.


Curious about everyone's thoughts on this, I've worked for a bulge bracket bank throughout lawschool but I don't want to endanger my big law potential offer after my summer so I was wondering how much you actually need to study beyond barbri... I would probably take off for 2-3 weeks for the exam but do you guys think that's sufficient? I historically do well on exams with shorter than average prep times. It'd be pretty challengting to have to quit early to take the exam as several months pay is pretty significant when you have a significant other plus kids at home... That said, no debt etc. so I can probably survive if I had to take off but I'd prefer to keep working through the prep financially...

This would be NY bar with a 50+ hour a week job.


I'm sure it's been done, which doesn't mean that it should be. The bar exam isn't hard in that the concepts are not all that hard and you only have to get roughly two-thirds right to be fine on most of them. However, the sheer amount of information you have to memorize makes cramming very very difficult. Bar prep companies recommend around 6 hours a day of study (that's 6 hours of actual quality studying, not 6 hours in front of your books) for 8 weeks. You can get away with a bit less than that, but not much less. This isn't like undergrad where you can cram before finals.

I'm a good test-taker and have always done well on standardized tests with moderate preparation. I passed on my first try in NY. I did 6 hrs a day (usu took Sunday off) for 8 weeks and still felt like there was not enough time. 50 hour work week while bar studying, even if you could take 2 weeks off, seems to be highly inadvisable. I wouldn't feel comfortable pulling more than a 20-30 hour work week and even that would be dicey.


Thanks for the breakdown, man, not really happy about that news... I've never studied that much for anything in my life, I took the MCAT with just a prep course (didn't do the homework) and like 2 practice tests and ended up like 98 percentile, but I guess there's a lot of topics on the bar. I hope I'll remember enough from law school to not need too much review on the major subjects but I don't think I'll have taken half of the small topics on the NY test.

I just can't imagine studying for 6 hours a day... By the way, Barbri does offer night classes in NY right?



barbri classes are all recorded, can watch at ur leisure. protip: download and watch at 2x speed.

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dood
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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby dood » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Same anon, I had heard that you can pass NY without knowing any of its distinctions if you ace the multistage topics and just use general rules for the rest... Is that true?

I mean even though I go to an NY school, we still end up learning Delaware corporate law etc so that won't help so much will it...


in theory yes. barbri instructor said above X score on MBE and they dont even grade ur essays or performance test sections. even if u dont reach X score, yeah, common law and common sense will take u pretty far.

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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:11 pm

Is working ~20 hours/week doable while studying for the CA bar? As much as I'd like to pass, studying full time will be harder without food or shelter.

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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:01 pm

GEORGIA

merlin
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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby merlin » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:31 am

I passed the NY Bar recently. I had taken and passed the bar in another jurisdiction straight out of law school and sat for the NY/NJ bar the following February.

I studied pretty much 10-5, M-F for my first bar exam. I don't consider myself a particuarly great test taker, but I put in the time (without overdoing it) and it all turned out fine. By the time Feb. came around, most of the materials from the first bar exam were still relatively fresh in my head. I put in minimal time for the NY/NJ bar exam - probably a total of 2 weeks, a couple of hours a day. I spent about two days on NY distinctions. By the time the exam came around, I couldn't remember any of those distinctions. I literally did not mention one single NY distinction on the essay portion of the exam. I applied all the basic rules from the MBE and went with that.

Also, I knew the answer to maybe 3-5 multiple choice answers in in the NY Multiple Choice section. I guessed on the rest of them. Yes, I completely guessed on about 45 multiple choice answers. (I'm not exaggerating). I'm told that the NY Multiple Choice section makes for a small percentage of the total score (I don't know if that's actually true). As long as your MBE score is respectable, I really don't think you need to spend (waste) that much time on the distinctions.

I think studying with the time you have is certainly doable. My suspicion is that top reason people fail the bar exam is because of nerves. Everyone psyches themselves out by telling themselves it's the "hardest exam you'll ever take." It really isn't. It's graded on a curve. It's a minimum competence test. Thousands of really dumb people pass the bar exam every year.

You'll be fine.

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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:22 pm

merlin wrote:I passed the NY Bar recently. I had taken and passed the bar in another jurisdiction straight out of law school and sat for the NY/NJ bar the following February.

I studied pretty much 10-5, M-F for my first bar exam. I don't consider myself a particuarly great test taker, but I put in the time (without overdoing it) and it all turned out fine. By the time Feb. came around, most of the materials from the first bar exam were still relatively fresh in my head. I put in minimal time for the NY/NJ bar exam - probably a total of 2 weeks, a couple of hours a day. I spent about two days on NY distinctions. By the time the exam came around, I couldn't remember any of those distinctions. I literally did not mention one single NY distinction on the essay portion of the exam. I applied all the basic rules from the MBE and went with that.

Also, I knew the answer to maybe 3-5 multiple choice answers in in the NY Multiple Choice section. I guessed on the rest of them. Yes, I completely guessed on about 45 multiple choice answers. (I'm not exaggerating). I'm told that the NY Multiple Choice section makes for a small percentage of the total score (I don't know if that's actually true). As long as your MBE score is respectable, I really don't think you need to spend (waste) that much time on the distinctions.

I think studying with the time you have is certainly doable. My suspicion is that top reason people fail the bar exam is because of nerves. Everyone psyches themselves out by telling themselves it's the "hardest exam you'll ever take." It really isn't. It's graded on a curve. It's a minimum competence test. Thousands of really dumb people pass the bar exam every year.

You'll be fine.


Haha thanks, I was going to say, the passage rates on the bar are pretty high for it to be the hardest exam you ever take, glad to see someone optimistic :)

I'll try some barbri stuff early over winter break before the bar and see where I am to help me decide.

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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:53 pm

How much time you need to study will depend on how many bar courses you took in law school. I took a lot so most of my bar prep was refresher. My friends who didn't take bar classes, in general, seemed to not pass at higher rates than those who did.

Also, keep in mind that the people here who passed, don't know how much they passed by. It's possible it was just by the skin of their teeth. I feel, in hindsight, like I overstudied (for the CA exam), but at the time, I was still a little worried I hadn't covered enough. I would have been too stressed out to hold down a job while studying. Would have not studied as well, and probably would have driven my coworkers mad.

Oh yeah. Easiest: Passachusetts, or so I've heard.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:58 pm

California is suppose to be a breeze......

More seriously, I have heard Mass and the DC area bar exams are suppose to be easier.

I was under the impression that NYC was one of the harder exams/??

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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How much time you need to study will depend on how many bar courses you took in law school. I took a lot so most of my bar prep was refresher. My friends who didn't take bar classes, in general, seemed to not pass at higher rates than those who did.

Also, keep in mind that the people here who passed, don't know how much they passed by. It's possible it was just by the skin of their teeth. I feel, in hindsight, like I overstudied, but at the time, I was still a little worried I hadn't covered enough. I would have been too stressed out to hold down a job while studying. Would have not studied as well, and probably would have driven my coworkers mad.

Actually, a lot of some jurisdictions [I don't know how many] release your scores, and also show what the passing score is, so you can tell how much you passed by. By that measure, I overstudied, but it's stressful enough, I don't think I would have been able to handle studying less, if that makes any sense. (I didn't take a lot of bar courses, and while learning the stuff I'd taken courses on was easier, it's not necessary.)

My experience was that trying to do anything else the last 3 weeks before the exam would have been hell on earth - you're so sucked into the bar exam vortex you can't think about anything else. But I think working, say, up to 20 hours a week before that would probably have been doable (if you accept that a lot of your free time/weekends will go to bar study). I didn't work, and am glad I didn't, but I also spent probably more time than I should have trying to make myself study. In some ways, if I'd had a little less unstructured time, I might have focused more.

(Not CA, NY, or any other east coast bar.)

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Re: Easiest bar exams

Postby stratocophic » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:GEORGIA
Elaborate




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