DOJ EOIR OCIJ Class of 2013 Forum

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have a sense of what the consequences might be of pulling out of the clerkship in order to accept a later-received offer elsewhere? I've signed and submitted all the paperwork to EOIR, but have an interview for my dream job in a couple weeks. Obviously this is NOT the ideal situation, and I'd like to burn as few bridges as possible. If I am offered the dream job, it's going to be a very hard call... Thoughts?

The typical response is to take it as a personal affront and be as vindictive as possible. They might call your law school, the bar, and threaten lawsuits. If you have any contacts in EOIR that they learn about, they will tell them to have no further contact with you in light of the possibility of legal action.

That all might not amount to much, but you can forget about not burning any bridges. If you pull out, they'll see to it that the bridge is burned, then they'll tear out the bridge supports and blow the dam upstream to make the river impassable.

Do you have an experience with this that you'd care to reference? It strikes me as very unlikely that EOIR or anyone else in the federal government has enough time/energy to get that invested in and dramatic about burning one former potential hire...

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have a sense of what the consequences might be of pulling out of the clerkship in order to accept a later-received offer elsewhere? I've signed and submitted all the paperwork to EOIR, but have an interview for my dream job in a couple weeks. Obviously this is NOT the ideal situation, and I'd like to burn as few bridges as possible. If I am offered the dream job, it's going to be a very hard call... Thoughts?

The typical response is to take it as a personal affront and be as vindictive as possible. They might call your law school, the bar, and threaten lawsuits. If you have any contacts in EOIR that they learn about, they will tell them to have no further contact with you in light of the possibility of legal action.

That all might not amount to much, but you can forget about not burning any bridges. If you pull out, they'll see to it that the bridge is burned, then they'll tear out the bridge supports and blow the dam upstream to make the river impassable.

Do you have an experience with this that you'd care to reference? It strikes me as very unlikely that EOIR or anyone else in the federal government has enough time/energy to get that invested in and dramatic about burning one former potential hire...

My statement is based on witnessing one individual pull out of an offer late in the hiring process, witnessing two individuals leaving their clerkships before finishing their two-year terms, and general knowledge gathered while being employed by the agency. People dropping out because they get a better offer is endemic among EOIR Honors hires, so they have made it a point to have the time, energy, and inclination to be that dramatic in the hope that the word spreads to those who are inclined to treat EOIR as a backup plan or not take the two-year term thing seriously.

In the past, they've had over a dozen JLCs—from a class of only two or three dozen to begin with—ditching either before they show up or before their two years is up. That's a big problem because they can't replace JLCs until their term is up, regardless of whether they're there or not. Thus, they don't see a person dropping out as being "one former potential hire"; they see him or her as a contributor to the single largest issue facing their largest administrative headache every year (there is virtually no turnover in EOIR aside from the fact that half the JLC corps refreshes every year; the entire HR and security departments basically exist to deal with JLC and intern hiring, and the interview and hiring process is a big operation for an agency as small as EOIR), and a contributor to the agency's issues with meeting the statutory deadlines and managing its caseload (the stuff that tends to make the papers).

Many other federal agencies probably wouldn't care very much, but they are not EOIR.

[Anonymous User]

I did get told very very seriously when I interviewed that I needed to be prepared to make a two year commitment, because it really really screwed them up when someone left before their term was up; that they couldn't replace someone until the term was done, whether the person was there or not, and they really need the JLCs. So what the above anon says makes sense to me.

[Anonymous User]

I know that OCIJ has retained alternates at this point, so there's that...

[Anonymous User]

OK - my understanding from the interview was definitely that they would take it very hard if someone left the clerkship early, given the difficulty of replacing clerks partway through the term. But I wasn't sure if that same difficulty (and resulting frustration) would result if someone pulled out before ever starting -- perhaps giving notice as early as April, five months before the normal September start date.

Thanks so much for your insight. Any additional thoughts welcome at any point.

[Anonymous User]

My typical tendency to fret about this process is starting to kick in again: has anyone heard that their e-QIP has been processed or that their FBI investigation has begun? Does anyone with past experience know what happens when the FBI finds out something they don't like (and whether applicants have a chance to explain themselves in that event)?

[Anonymous User]

My typical tendency to fret about this process is starting to kick in again: has anyone heard that their e-QIP has been processed or that their FBI investigation has begun? Does anyone with past experience know what happens when the FBI finds out something they don't like (and whether applicants have a chance to explain themselves in that event)?

I'm not in EOIR, but I also have to do the e-QIP etc. I had follow-up questions from the hiring component (I have foreign relatives and dual citizenship, I had to do additional forms), and I had my drug test scheduled (and done and sent). Haven't heard anything else.

[Anonymous User]

I did get told very very seriously when I interviewed that I needed to be prepared to make a two year commitment, because it really really screwed them up when someone left before their term was up; that they couldn't replace someone until the term was done, whether the person was there or not, and they really need the JLCs. So what the above anon says makes sense to me.

During my interview the judge made it very clear than unless you pull out or leave for a very special circumstance (as in, you have cancer), you could face some pretty serious professional consequences. Seems like something they take extremely seriously.

[Anonymous User]

Hi Guys,

I submitted all of my forms (e-qip and the like) towards the end of January, and I haven't heard anything since. Does anyone know what the next steps are?



Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

The checks seem to take a long time and you don't really hear anything while they're going on. I submitted my forms at the end of November/beginning of December; I have foreign relatives, so they asked me to complete some more forms, and then nothing. Then near the end of January I got an appointment for a drug test. Earlier today, a friend of mine sent me a message that she'd just talked to an FBI agent about me. So I'm sure it's just ongoing and you'll hear something more eventually.

[Anonymous User]

I was contacted by the FBI agent doing my clearance sometime in June and didn't actually get my clearance until a few months into the job (you're on an intern-like clearance waiver for your first few months). Aside from the interview with the FBI guy, I heard nothing at all about the clearance process.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if our jobs will be affected by sequestration? I know DOJ (IJs included) got their furlough notices recently, and I'm wondering if our jobs are safe...

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if our jobs will be affected by sequestration? I know DOJ (IJs included) got their furlough notices recently, and I'm wondering if our jobs are safe...

I am interested in this as well, and I also have a question for everyone who has done their forms and such. Did all the HP people complete the SF-85P or one of the other forms? I was told that in previous years JLCs were asked to complete the SF-86. I was asked to complete the SF-85P this year and not the SF-86. Is that the same for everyone? Thank you!

Edit: So that you don't have to look it up, the difference is that the SF-86 is a lot longer and asks for seven to ten years of detailed drug use history (such as the number of times you have used a drug and the circumstances around each use) as well as for a list of all foreign contacts and detailed mental health history. The SF-85P only asks whether you have done drugs in the past year and does not have the detailed foreign contact section.

[anon5]

A couple of questions for you all (particularly current/past JLCs/AAs)

1) Should I be concerned if I have yet to hear anything about my background check? As far as I know, none of the people I listed in my paperwork have heard anything either.

2) Is there anything I should be doing in the months leading up to our start date??

[Anonymous User]

A couple of questions for you all (particularly current/past JLCs/AAs)

1) Should I be concerned if I have yet to hear anything about my background check? As far as I know, none of the people I listed in my paperwork have heard anything either.

2) Is there anything I should be doing in the months leading up to our start date??

1) I think it was late June before I or anyone on my paperwork was interviewed by the FBI, so nothing to worry about.

2) Talk to whoever you're replacing. There's a fair bit of variation in how different courts use their clerks, so whomever is there now will give you the best info. There's really no advice that would be applicable everywhere aside from the obvious, "Learn everything you can about immigration law in the circuit where you'll be." There's no administrative stuff you need to do at this point.

[Anonymous User]

For what it's worth (if anyone is still wondering what to expect regarding background investigation timing), I received a phone call today from an FBI investigator who had just begun my investigation and wanted "summer" phone numbers for a few of my professors.

[crysmissmichelle]

I would love to hear any application tips and advice any of you wouldn't mind sharing. EOIR is VERY HIGH on my list and the application window opens very soon.

Thanks in advance.