Is 3L OCI worth it if you have an offer?

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Is 3L OCI worth it if you have an offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:56 am

Assuming that you have a V30 offer (no one no offered in a long time), is there any major difference in future prospects to try to upgrade to a V10 etc in 3L OCI? What if your grades weren't stellar in the first place? Are firms more or less grade selective in 3L OCI?

Do you have enough time to accept your offer if you do do OCI and don't get anything?

Is any possible difference in prestige going to make it worth going through the process again?

What about firms that don't go to your school's OCI? When would you try to do a bit of discreet targeted mailing?

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Re: Is 3L OCI worth it if you have an offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Assuming that you have a V30 offer (no one no offered in a long time), is there any major difference in future prospects to try to upgrade to a V10 etc in 3L OCI? What if your grades weren't stellar in the first place? Are firms more or less grade selective in 3L OCI?

Do you have enough time to accept your offer if you do do OCI and don't get anything?

Is any possible difference in prestige going to make it worth going through the process again?

What about firms that don't go to your school's OCI? When would you try to do a bit of discreet targeted mailing?


it's probably not worth it for only the prestige bonus.

1) its kinda awkward w/r/t your old firm. you can say you are "pursuing a clerkship" to explain the delay, but its still a little weird. on the last day your fellow SA's and the attorneys will be talking about whether you will accept etc.

2) you spent the summer making connections and establishing a foothold at your SA firm. unless you dislike the people, that is a pretty good way to start your career. think about it before you toss it out. there are of course cases when the ppl suck or you hate the practice areas, but for the most part its just not worth a switch.

#3) oci sucks. you will have to do it again: interviews, nervous 2L's flocking around, stress. not to mention you will be wasting prime vacation/adventure time. i know plenty of people that took a trip somewhere interesting between their SA and starting 3L (you will have like a month of free time). that will probably only happen one more time (bar trip) from this point out...for the next 5-10 years. you will have plenty of money and not enough time in a couple years so you might as well take advantage of the time now.

FWIW, 3L that went through 3L OCI and thought not worth it

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Re: Is 3L OCI worth it if you have an offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Assuming that you have a V30 offer (no one no offered in a long time), is there any major difference in future prospects to try to upgrade to a V10 etc in 3L OCI? What if your grades weren't stellar in the first place? Are firms more or less grade selective in 3L OCI?

Do you have enough time to accept your offer if you do do OCI and don't get anything?

Is any possible difference in prestige going to make it worth going through the process again?

What about firms that don't go to your school's OCI? When would you try to do a bit of discreet targeted mailing?


it's probably not worth it for only the prestige bonus.

1) its kinda awkward w/r/t your old firm. you can say you are "pursuing a clerkship" to explain the delay, but its still a little weird. on the last day your fellow SA's and the attorneys will be talking about whether you will accept etc.

2) you spent the summer making connections and establishing a foothold at your SA firm. unless you dislike the people, that is a pretty good way to start your career. think about it before you toss it out. there are of course cases when the ppl suck or you hate the practice areas, but for the most part its just not worth a switch.

#3) oci sucks. you will have to do it again: interviews, nervous 2L's flocking around, stress. not to mention you will be wasting prime vacation/adventure time. i know plenty of people that took a trip somewhere interesting between their SA and starting 3L (you will have like a month of free time). that will probably only happen one more time (bar trip) from this point out...for the next 5-10 years. you will have plenty of money and not enough time in a couple years so you might as well take advantage of the time now.

FWIW, 3L that went through 3L OCI and thought not worth it


OP Here,

From what I've seen here I think I'd really like the team I'd be going into. I'm a night student so assuming I can actually swing a leave with my current employer I wouldn't have a chance to take a trip after the summer but that is a nice thought :). I think there's just the thought in the back of my mind, what if, you know? I didn't really apply to most of the V10 due to advice from Career Services so no exposure to what they're like culturally, and there are a couple of other firms that I would probably pick over my current firm if I had a choice (IE Boies etc that pay well above market because even though I don't have student loans I probably have more expenditures than most law students).

I'm already really looking forward to a nice vacation after the bar though, enough so that I will probably actually leave whatever job I'm working at early in order to take the family away for a while even at the cost of having income for a couple of months :).

I do really dread the whole OCI mess one more time and needing to literally use vacation days to do it (days that will look really bad considering my taking a leave of absence right before)...

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thesealocust
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Re: Is 3L OCI worth it if you have an offer?

Postby thesealocust » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:22 pm

3L OCI is primarily about people trying to "upgrade" firms. It's much easier to get another job offer once you already have one.

The cost/benefit depends on three main factors: Geography, firm financial stability, and practice area. There are tons of individual circumstances that would make switching firms prudent if one or more of those factors were in play. Say you spend the summer trying practices at your V30 and come to realize you love M&A. At that point getting into a V10/V5 type firm in NYC would actually be a tangibly career enhancing move (though not enough of one that it's an obvious choice, just enough of one for it to not be crazy). And if the firm has rumors or rumblings or a bad history of layoffs or something, taking the offer you have but trying to land somewhere more stable could make sense. Or maybe you enjoy your V30 but realize it's not the right location to start your career as a lawyer - then God Speed.

But if you just have an amorphous fear that your lifetime VAULT RANKING PRESTIGE POINT BALANCE might be too low, and that when you get to the pearly gates St. Peter will be all "lol prole you only worked at a V30 we don't have room for you and your kind here" then, well, work on getting your head out of your ass and don't worry about it.

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Re: Is 3L OCI worth it if you have an offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:37 pm

thesealocust wrote:3L OCI is primarily about people trying to "upgrade" firms. It's much easier to get another job offer once you already have one.

The cost/benefit depends on three main factors: Geography, firm financial stability, and practice area. There are tons of individual circumstances that would make switching firms prudent if one or more of those factors were in play. Say you spend the summer trying practices at your V30 and come to realize you love M&A. At that point getting into a V10/V5 type firm in NYC would actually be a tangibly career enhancing move (though not enough of one that it's an obvious choice, just enough of one for it to not be crazy). And if the firm has rumors or rumblings or a bad history of layoffs or something, taking the offer you have but trying to land somewhere more stable could make sense. Or maybe you enjoy your V30 but realize it's not the right location to start your career as a lawyer - then God Speed.

But if you just have an amorphous fear that your lifetime VAULT RANKING PRESTIGE POINT BALANCE might be too low, and that when you get to the pearly gates St. Peter will be all "lol prole you only worked at a V30 we don't have room for you and your kind here" then, well, work on getting your head out of your ass and don't worry about it.


Love your posts as usual, and yes this is NYC, but would wanting a 1 tier partnership over 2 tier be worth considering? I'm under the impression that making partner requires a healthy dose of luck on top of everything else so is it even worth making a decision based on something like that?

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thesealocust
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Re: Is 3L OCI worth it if you have an offer?

Postby thesealocust » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Love your posts as usual, and yes this is NYC, but would wanting a 1 tier partnership over 2 tier be worth considering? I'm under the impression that making partner requires a healthy dose of luck on top of everything else so is it even worth making a decision based on something like that?


Never heard the terms 1 tier partnership or 2 tier partnership. You mean firm's like Kirkland that do ranks of non-equity partners as a matter of course vs. firms that basically just have equity partners and maybe some counsel positions?

It is probably far too early for partnership structure to be a primary consideration. It's not irrelevant to a firm's culture or your prospects, but I think you're right that luck and circumstance are so important that it shouldn't be a driving consideration at this point.

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Re: Is 3L OCI worth it if you have an offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:05 pm

How long do they give you until your offer expires? If you actually are exploring clerkships would they give you longer?

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englawyer
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Re: Is 3L OCI worth it if you have an offer?

Postby englawyer » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How long do they give you until your offer expires? If you actually are exploring clerkships would they give you longer?


nalp guidelines say til Nov 1 of 3L year. the longer you delay the more awkward it can get. clerkship season (on plan at least) ends in mid September so there is plenty of time.

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Re: Is 3L OCI worth it if you have an offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:00 pm

Thanks




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