Graduated, jobless, need advice

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Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Graduated, jobless, need advice

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:52 pm

I graduated last spring & passed the bar. I am getting a lot of interviews and no decent offers. I have had a few big law interviews, several middle market interviews, and some shit law interviews and am getting rejected left and right. I don't think I am doing anything wrong in interviews, I just think I tend to be boring and unable to leave much of an impression.

After bar results came out, I got a bunch of interviews. I got a shit law offer right away, but because I had lined up some other much better interviews and had some contacts at those firms, I was optimistic that I could get a better job. The other two firms pay literally twice as much and the interviews were scheduled for after the date the shit law firm wanted me to start. As you can imagine, I didn't get either job and now I'm beginning to wonder if declining the offer was a huge mistake. I have no interviews lined up at this point. Is it just slow because of the holidays, or did I miss the boat?

Any advice? Should I just take the next offer I get, no matter what, or should I hold out for a job I will really enjoy? Will such a job ever come?

Details

Market: Atlanta
School: University of Georgia (ranked 34)
Class standing: top 25%
Journal: Yes, but not LR
-Decent internships
-Bar admitted

Gorki
Posts: 772
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Graduated, jobless, need advice

Postby Gorki » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:55 pm

Personally I would just take the next offer you get unless it is a total deadend, like Doc Review, and even then I would be weary of not taking it.

Do you have a ton of loans? Can you in any way also do some volunteer or pro bono work to at least get some more/continuing legal experience?

Did you have any jobs during LS that were legal related, and if so any way you can at least reach out to those bosses/employers to get some advice?

Sorry for just giving you more questions, and have been in a string of bad luck like this before. Keep your head up dude!

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: Graduated, jobless, need advice

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:16 pm

Beggars can't be choosers, especially not in this profession.

Agent
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:03 pm

Re: Graduated, jobless, need advice

Postby Agent » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:32 pm

Sorry to hear this. I wonder about your networking game. Shoot me a PM if you care to chat a bit.

Void
Posts: 857
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:56 am

Re: Graduated, jobless, need advice

Postby Void » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:34 am

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:Beggars can't be choosers, especially not in this profession.


I don't want to sound like a dick, but I have to agree. I winced while reading that OP turned down an offer. I feel like post-graduation Job searching can't really afford the luxury of shopping around.

merlin
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:15 pm

Re: Graduated, jobless, need advice

Postby merlin » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:07 pm

I agree with all the above posts. Just because you accept a position, doesn't meant you can't keep looking for other, better things. As they say, it's easier to find a job when you have a job. And it'll be more difficult the longer that gap in your resume gets.

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stuckinthemiddle
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Re: Graduated, jobless, need advice

Postby stuckinthemiddle » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:44 am

Could someone define "shitlaw" for me please.

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Wholigan
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Re: Graduated, jobless, need advice

Postby Wholigan » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:26 am

stuckinthemiddle wrote:Could someone define "shitlaw" for me please.


I don't know if everybody means the same thing when they use the term, but in general when people refer to "shitlaw" they are referring to small firms whose pay is in the lower peak in the bimodal salary range; e.g. around $35-50k. There's a lot of overlap, but it often is also used to refer to firms that handle matters which are relatively low stakes, like DUIs, personal injury, small criminal matters, wills, etc. In reality the partners at some of these firms can do quite well, but the perception is that these aren't the kind of places where you get on a "partnership track".

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Sheffield
Posts: 411
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Re: Graduated, jobless, need advice

Postby Sheffield » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:52 am

stuckinthemiddle wrote:Could someone define "shitlaw" for me please.

Not always, but mainly about $$. Since the OP may have been waiting on a potentially $160K offer, $90K could be shitlaw.

A related question. . .don’t firms normally hold an offer open for a few weeks before the candidate has to decide ― is that [rule] just for offers coming through OCI, or regulated to those still in school? I imagine that in the real world that it is possible the time limit is solely up to the firm, but I would not know. . . maybe you do!

Aqualibrium
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Re: Graduated, jobless, need advice

Postby Aqualibrium » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:12 pm

Take the next offer you get, keep interviewing, don't do contract work.

Lord Randolph McDuff
Posts: 1587
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Re: Graduated, jobless, need advice

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:38 pm

Sheffield wrote:
stuckinthemiddle wrote:Could someone define "shitlaw" for me please.

Not always, but mainly about $$. Since the OP may have been waiting on a potentially $160K offer, $90K could be shitlaw.

A related question. . .don’t firms normally hold an offer open for a few weeks before the candidate has to decide ― is that [rule] just for offers coming through OCI, or regulated to those still in school? I imagine that in the real world that it is possible the time limit is solely up to the firm, but I would not know. . . maybe you do!


I guess shit-law really is a varied term. Out here 90k is biglaw!

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Graduated, jobless, need advice

Postby BarbellDreams » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:23 pm

To me "shitlaw" is under 50K pay, no partnership track, close to biglaw hours. Everyone describes it differently. Some of the definitions on TLS get a little out of control. I would love to work a 40 hour a week criminal defense 50K non-partnership track job where I can come home at 5:30, have a family life, get my random 5K raise every couple of years, and enjoy my work. Many people on TLS define that job as shitlaw.

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Sheffield
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Re: Graduated, jobless, need advice

Postby Sheffield » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:02 pm

BarbellDreams wrote: I would love to work a 40 hour a week criminal defense 50K non-partnership track job where I can come home at 5:30, have a family life, get my random 5K raise every couple of years, and enjoy my work.

+1. I would love to do that too (and have the opportunity to make it happen), unfortunately there is the matter of tuition debt. The enticement of $140K over $70K in itself is hard enough to overlook but when debt is tagged onto the decision, how does one get out of that trick bag? I am looking into what considerations are afforded those selecting public service work. . . it probably will not work out, checking anyway.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Graduated, jobless, need advice

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:12 pm

Sheffield wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote: I would love to work a 40 hour a week criminal defense 50K non-partnership track job where I can come home at 5:30, have a family life, get my random 5K raise every couple of years, and enjoy my work.

+1. I would love to do that too (and have the opportunity to make it happen), unfortunately there is the matter of tuition debt. The enticement of $140K over $70K in itself is hard enough to overlook but when debt is tagged onto the decision, how does one get out of that trick bag? I am looking into what considerations are afforded those selecting public service work. . . it probably will not work out, checking anyway.


DA Office? If its too late to get signed on now-- i.e., you missed the intern boat-- then get a job in shit-criminal-defense-law and make the minimum payments on your LRAP. As soon as you can, try to get on with a DA office and you can switch over to PLRAP. 120 pay periods and your debt is gone, no tax bomb at the end of PLRAP. You can work in the DA office and if you are super duper ambitious you can try to get on at the AG or some fed prosecutorial role.

All easier said than done, but maybe worth a shot.

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Sheffield
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Re: Graduated, jobless, need advice

Postby Sheffield » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:10 pm

The opportunity is with the state AG. Although my stint is limited to a few days a month, I enjoy it. No rush since 2L means the long winding second half LS adventure is still ahead.

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typ3
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Re: Graduated, jobless, need advice

Postby typ3 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I graduated last spring & passed the bar. I am getting a lot of interviews and no decent offers. I have had a few big law interviews, several middle market interviews, and some shit law interviews and am getting rejected left and right. I don't think I am doing anything wrong in interviews, I just think I tend to be boring and unable to leave much of an impression.

After bar results came out, I got a bunch of interviews. I got a shit law offer right away, but because I had lined up some other much better interviews and had some contacts at those firms, I was optimistic that I could get a better job. The other two firms pay literally twice as much and the interviews were scheduled for after the date the shit law firm wanted me to start. As you can imagine, I didn't get either job and now I'm beginning to wonder if declining the offer was a huge mistake. I have no interviews lined up at this point. Is it just slow because of the holidays, or did I miss the boat?

Any advice? Should I just take the next offer I get, no matter what, or should I hold out for a job I will really enjoy? Will such a job ever come?

Details

Market: Atlanta
School: University of Georgia (ranked 34)
Class standing: top 25%
Journal: Yes, but not LR
-Decent internships
-Bar admitted


Move to North Dakota.

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BarbellDreams
Posts: 2256
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:10 pm

Re: Graduated, jobless, need advice

Postby BarbellDreams » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:46 am

typ3 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I graduated last spring & passed the bar. I am getting a lot of interviews and no decent offers. I have had a few big law interviews, several middle market interviews, and some shit law interviews and am getting rejected left and right. I don't think I am doing anything wrong in interviews, I just think I tend to be boring and unable to leave much of an impression.

After bar results came out, I got a bunch of interviews. I got a shit law offer right away, but because I had lined up some other much better interviews and had some contacts at those firms, I was optimistic that I could get a better job. The other two firms pay literally twice as much and the interviews were scheduled for after the date the shit law firm wanted me to start. As you can imagine, I didn't get either job and now I'm beginning to wonder if declining the offer was a huge mistake. I have no interviews lined up at this point. Is it just slow because of the holidays, or did I miss the boat?

Any advice? Should I just take the next offer I get, no matter what, or should I hold out for a job I will really enjoy? Will such a job ever come?

Details

Market: Atlanta
School: University of Georgia (ranked 34)
Class standing: top 25%
Journal: Yes, but not LR
-Decent internships
-Bar admitted


Move to North Dakota.


I thought it was South Dakota that had the best per-capita legal market in the nation, though I imagine North Dakota is close. Most of the states that have the least lawyers are largely rural states with 1 or no law schools. If you're cool with living there, you may find SOME job within 3 months of looking, especially in rural PD/DA work. Even ITE it seems like if you pick the middle of nowhere and send some apps to PD/DA offices you get bites to at least interview.

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typ3
Posts: 1362
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:04 am

Re: Graduated, jobless, need advice

Postby typ3 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:52 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
typ3 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I graduated last spring & passed the bar. I am getting a lot of interviews and no decent offers. I have had a few big law interviews, several middle market interviews, and some shit law interviews and am getting rejected left and right. I don't think I am doing anything wrong in interviews, I just think I tend to be boring and unable to leave much of an impression.

After bar results came out, I got a bunch of interviews. I got a shit law offer right away, but because I had lined up some other much better interviews and had some contacts at those firms, I was optimistic that I could get a better job. The other two firms pay literally twice as much and the interviews were scheduled for after the date the shit law firm wanted me to start. As you can imagine, I didn't get either job and now I'm beginning to wonder if declining the offer was a huge mistake. I have no interviews lined up at this point. Is it just slow because of the holidays, or did I miss the boat?

Any advice? Should I just take the next offer I get, no matter what, or should I hold out for a job I will really enjoy? Will such a job ever come?

Details

Market: Atlanta
School: University of Georgia (ranked 34)
Class standing: top 25%
Journal: Yes, but not LR
-Decent internships
-Bar admitted


Move to North Dakota.


I thought it was South Dakota that had the best per-capita legal market in the nation, though I imagine North Dakota is close. Most of the states that have the least lawyers are largely rural states with 1 or no law schools. If you're cool with living there, you may find SOME job within 3 months of looking, especially in rural PD/DA work. Even ITE it seems like if you pick the middle of nowhere and send some apps to PD/DA offices you get bites to at least interview.


Nah it's ND. I'm from SD. Although the market is still good for rural pd/prosecutor in SD. ND and SD have a lot of 40 hr week 60-65k inhouse banking legal jobs and health care tort / compliance depts. since all the credit card and bank processing is in the state. There are some rural lawyers doing farm trusts that make 100-200k a year that want people to take over their practice but cannot find succession plans. FWIW a 300k house will get you around 1/2 acre + 5 bed 3/4 bath and 4,000+ sq. ft. granite / stainless steel in the city here. Easily doable with two working people at these interest rates. It is actually surprising the number of new plants we have from NY / the coasts ITE. On a two professional salary in the state you can acquire / own stuff that would run you a few million on the coasts. The places continually looking for legal help are Raven, Poet, Sanford-Meritcare, Tyson Foods, Meta Bank, John Morrell. I would say Meta, Raven, and Poet are your best bets for landing something quickly. It's not like lawyers slum it here either. There are a handful of plaintiff "shitlaw" lawyers who make 7 figures in the state both in Rapid and Sioux Falls doing auto accident, farm accident product liability, and insurance bad faith. There are a few that are nationally recognized plaintiff lawyers, inner circle of advocates / law dragon 500. I would say if you are somewhat competent in legal marketing you can break 6 figures in the state within a few years especially since the old guard is leaving the profession soon and you're not going to encounter any severely complex legal issues. FWIW I know some attorneys to the south in Sioux City, IA who make mid 6 - 7 figures in shitlaw. IA laws are a lot more favorable to plaintiffs for recovery in worker's compensation suits. Since Sioux City does a lot of the meat and consumable manufacturing for the country there are quite a few employment injuries that you can scoop up and cash out for a big settlement.




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