School-term Internship to Post-Grad Clerkship

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School-term Internship to Post-Grad Clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:39 pm

Does anyone have any success stories (or failure stories) about law students who interned with a judge while in school, then went on to Clerk for the same Judge? It would seem like this would happen somewhat often, since the Judge (and/or her clerks) get first-hand experience of the quality of the intern's work, but I don't know that I've heard of it happening much.

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Detrox
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Re: School-term Internship to Post-Grad Clerkship

Postby Detrox » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone have any success stories (or failure stories) about law students who interned with a judge while in school, then went on to Clerk for the same Judge? It would seem like this would happen somewhat often, since the Judge (and/or her clerks) get first-hand experience of the quality of the intern's work, but I don't know that I've heard of it happening much.


This has been asked many times and it has been found to be judge-dependent. Some judges take their interns for clerkships somewhat often, others apparently refuse to consider interns for post-grad clerkships. It seems likely that grades/law review/etc. will matter more on average, so if you're considering interning for the increased prospect of clerking you will certainly want to ask a judges current or former clerks about his/her respective policy.

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LeDique
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Re: School-term Internship to Post-Grad Clerkship

Postby LeDique » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:44 pm

Detrox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone have any success stories (or failure stories) about law students who interned with a judge while in school, then went on to Clerk for the same Judge? It would seem like this would happen somewhat often, since the Judge (and/or her clerks) get first-hand experience of the quality of the intern's work, but I don't know that I've heard of it happening much.


This has been asked many times and it has been found to be judge-dependent. Some judges take their interns for clerkships somewhat often, others apparently refuse to consider interns for post-grad clerkships. It seems likely that grades/law review/etc. will matter more on average, so if you're considering interning for the increased prospect of clerking you will certainly want to ask a judges current or former clerks about his/her respective policy.


Yup - you can talk to folks who know and that's the only way to find out. Some have a ban on it.

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Re: School-term Internship to Post-Grad Clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:59 pm

I interned for a COA judge during school who seemed impressed by my work, but who also prefers to hire clerks with work experience. When I asked about a clerkship straight out, he said to try to get another clerkship first and then apply. I now have a two-year district court clerkship locked up, and the clerk who served as my supervisor (who still keeps in touch with the judge) said that my name has come up in discussions for clerk hiring a couple of years down the road.

Long story short: not a success story yet, but I hope it will become one. Even if it doesn't result in another clerkship, though, interning with a judge is an awesome experience that you should do no matter what.

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Re: School-term Internship to Post-Grad Clerkship

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:04 pm

LeDique wrote:
Detrox wrote:This has been asked many times and it has been found to be judge-dependent. Some judges take their interns for clerkships somewhat often, others apparently refuse to consider interns for post-grad clerkships. It seems likely that grades/law review/etc. will matter more on average, so if you're considering interning for the increased prospect of clerking you will certainly want to ask a judges current or former clerks about his/her respective policy.


Yup - you can talk to folks who know and that's the only way to find out. Some have a ban on it.

Exactly. I know two judges who hire former interns as clerks, and one who won't. Plus, interns don't always get much, if any, substantive contact with the judge (as opposed to with the clerks), so that's something worth asking about, too. You might be better off interning with a judge who's very hands-on and involved with the interns but doesn't hire them as clerks, than with one who might hire interns as clerks but never talks to them while they're interns, because the former is more likely to get a good impression of you, and can at least call up other judges for you and give a better recommendation.

(Also, don't piss off/blow off the clerks. I've seen too many interns do this.)

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Re: School-term Internship to Post-Grad Clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:48 am

I externed in a COA chambers where former internship with the judge was a plus. However, in the end, it was always the top 10% T14 + LR who always got the clerkship; that is, if you actually made it out of the stack of the other thousands of apps. I personally shredded about 1000+ clerkship apps that were not even read and the LORs still sealed. Flipping through them and reading some of the resumes I was just blown away with how amazing these applicants were. Amazing enough to make me just want to quit at life. There is just no way a former internship and a good impression in 3 months is going to make you competitive enough to beat all those guys in the end. The only time the former internship bump would help is if you were as competitive academically/on paper with everyone else. There may be some judges who don't care about all the bureaucracy and hire you anyway though, although I think that is very, very rare and I have never heard of it happening at the federal level. I agree hiring former externs is how it should be, though generally it's just not how it is.

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Re: School-term Internship to Post-Grad Clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:I externed in a COA chambers where former internship with the judge was a plus. However, in the end, it was always the top 10% T14 + LR who always got the clerkship; that is, if you actually made it out of the stack of the other thousands of apps. I personally shredded about 1000+ clerkship apps that were not even read and the LORs still sealed. Flipping through them and reading some of the resumes I was just blown away with how amazing these applicants were. Amazing enough to make me just want to quit at life. There is just no way a former internship and a good impression in 3 months is going to make you competitive enough to beat all those guys in the end. The only time the former internship bump would help is if you were as competitive academically/on paper with everyone else. There may be some judges who don't care about all the bureaucracy and hire you anyway though, although I think that is very, very rare and I have never heard of it happening at the federal level. I agree hiring former externs is how it should be, though generally it's just not how it is.


I know for certain this is not the case with all federal judges. I know of at least one Article III Federal Judge who prioritizes hiring former externs over more academically qualified candidates.

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Re: School-term Internship to Post-Grad Clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I externed in a COA chambers where former internship with the judge was a plus. However, in the end, it was always the top 10% T14 + LR who always got the clerkship; that is, if you actually made it out of the stack of the other thousands of apps. I personally shredded about 1000+ clerkship apps that were not even read and the LORs still sealed. Flipping through them and reading some of the resumes I was just blown away with how amazing these applicants were. Amazing enough to make me just want to quit at life. There is just no way a former internship and a good impression in 3 months is going to make you competitive enough to beat all those guys in the end. The only time the former internship bump would help is if you were as competitive academically/on paper with everyone else. There may be some judges who don't care about all the bureaucracy and hire you anyway though, although I think that is very, very rare and I have never heard of it happening at the federal level. I agree hiring former externs is how it should be, though generally it's just not how it is.


I know for certain this is not the case with all federal judges. I know of at least one Article III Federal Judge who prioritizes hiring former externs over more academically qualified candidates.

Yeah, I know those judges might exist, but no one really knows about them cause they probably want to hide the fact they hire that way. Otherwise everyone and their moms would rush to work for that judge.

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Re: School-term Internship to Post-Grad Clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
I know for certain this is not the case with all federal judges. I know of at least one Article III Federal Judge who prioritizes hiring former externs over more academically qualified candidates.

Yeah, I know those judges might exist, but no one really knows about them cause they probably want to hide the fact they hire that way. Otherwise everyone and their moms would rush to work for that judge.


+1. I think that is pretty consistent among judges who do like to hire externs. Giving out that info makes the work experience a little more stressful, can create competition among co-externs, and attracts more applications from people who don't want the internship experience as much as they want to clerk.

I will clerk for a judge next year who tends to hire externs (I am an exception) and when the judge hired me the judge specifically ask that I avoid divulging that preference to any current law students. (So nope, won't be saying in this thread who it is.)

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TTH
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Re: School-term Internship to Post-Grad Clerkship

Postby TTH » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:07 pm

Since this seems to be the current clerking discussion, I'll ask: is there anything that's replaced law clerk addict? I went there this morning to look for something and saw that it's gone.

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Re: School-term Internship to Post-Grad Clerkship

Postby Citizen Genet » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:09 pm

TTH wrote:Since this seems to be the current clerking discussion, I'll ask: is there anything that's replaced law clerk addict? I went there this morning to look for something and saw that it's gone.


Wayback Machine is your best bet for recovering the data from it or Clerkship Scramble. (WBM is at http://archive.org/web/web.php .) Other than that, nope. We're all screwed.

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Re: School-term Internship to Post-Grad Clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:48 pm

I also externed for a summer with the district judge who I now clerk for.

Based on my experience and others I know in similar situations, this is much more likely to happen if the judge has a long term career clerk who you work closely with and who gives her highest recommendation of you to the judge.




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