Bet the Farm or Drop out

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Anonymous User
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Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:52 pm

So here is my position:
I currently attend a T20 school, am in the top 20% of my class, have a 3.6 GPA, and am on a secondary journal. I struck out at OCI and have nothing lined up for the summer, but at this point, I'm guessing PI will be what I will have to do. I have no interest in PI work and want a firm job. The question I'm wrangling with is if I should just fold now or hang on and hope for a clerkship since that seems like my best shot at this point. What do you guys think?

09042014
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby 09042014 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:55 pm

Friends don't let friends stay at WASHU. Drop it like's it a newborn.

Agent
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby Agent » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:00 pm

Need debt and fallback info

Anonymous User
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:03 pm

Are you insane? Keep grinding...its way too early to give up. People with lesser stats at similar schools are landing firm gigs.

I know you're frustrated, but don't make matters worse by taking an ill-advised decision. You have a long career ahead of you.

Anonymous User
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:04 pm

Lots of debt, was a finance major undergrad (at a decent business school) so could potentially land ~40k gig at a bank or in a corporate finance department.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:08 pm

How do you plan on getting a PI job if you can't get a firm job?

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2014
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby 2014 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:16 pm

Would you rather work in shit law or a bank?

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bk1
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby bk1 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Lots of debt, was a finance major undergrad (at a decent business school) so could potentially land ~40k gig at a bank or in a corporate finance department.


I'd probably drop out if you can get definitely get one of these. 100k debt (I'm assuming this is roughly your current figure) and a 40k job seems better than 200k debt and a 40-60k job as a lawyer at a small/midsize firm.

BeenDidThat
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby BeenDidThat » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:18 pm

I would "bet the farm" with those stats (even though you already did that).

kryptix
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby kryptix » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:38 pm

You occasionally still see people getting offers here so why not try mass mailing a few different markets right now, possibly even overseas? Also, 3L hiring isn't the end of the world. A non-traditional route I've seen a couple of people work successfully was a transfer into a part time program to get another shot at OCI, but you'd have to make sure you get a decent job (with the finance degree probably) to make that look like a good move.

Anonymous User
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:10 pm

Not to hijack this thread, but what about my situation?

Lower T-14, no journal, moot court, below median. No debt, but family taking out loans on mortgage to pay for the tuition. liberal arts major undergrad, but could potentially go back to job pre-law school in an industry that pays 50k/year entry.

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Br3v
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby Br3v » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:23 pm

My understanding is that 0L's can ask questions in employment threads (is that correct)?

My question: OP you act like IP is a back up, I was under the impression that one needed a strong science background for those and they were highly competitive?

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby ScottRiqui » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:30 pm

Br3v wrote:My understanding is that 0L's can ask questions in employment threads (is that correct)?

My question: OP you act like IP is a back up, I was under the impression that one needed a strong science background for those and they were highly competitive?


If I'm understanding correctly, he's talking about PI (Public Interest) work, not IP.

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Br3v
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby Br3v » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:34 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:
Br3v wrote:My understanding is that 0L's can ask questions in employment threads (is that correct)?

My question: OP you act like IP is a back up, I was under the impression that one needed a strong science background for those and they were highly competitive?


If I'm understanding correctly, he's talking about PI (Public Interest) work, not IP.


and this is why 0L's are not allowed to be in the legal employment section....i'll see my way to the door

Agent
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby Agent » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:48 pm

I'd discuss this with my family. Before speaking with them, I'd be sure to equip them with adequate information about debt and the legal job market. Sorry, this will probably be a pretty rough discussion.

Anonymous User wrote:Lower T-14, no journal, moot court, below median. No debt, but family taking out loans on mortgage to pay for the tuition. liberal arts major undergrad, but could potentially go back to job pre-law school in an industry that pays 50k/year entry.

Agent
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby Agent » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:53 pm

I'd study for exams. After that, I'd focus on the job hunt (all fronts). I probably would not drop out unless I'd locked down a non-legal job.

Anonymous User wrote:Lots of debt, was a finance major undergrad (at a decent business school) so could potentially land ~40k gig at a bank or in a corporate finance department.

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FlanAl
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby FlanAl » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:07 pm

Do you have PI work lined up already? Have you identified why OCI didn't work out for you? You had good enough grades. Personality/interview skills are really important for PI hiring, that and a demonstrated commitment. It seems like both of these might be a problem for you and you have a good fall back option with your finance degree.

Anonymous User
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:17 pm

Agent wrote:I'd discuss this with my family. Before speaking with them, I'd be sure to equip them with adequate information about debt and the legal job market. Sorry, this will probably be a pretty rough discussion.

Anonymous User wrote:Lower T-14, no journal, moot court, below median. No debt, but family taking out loans on mortgage to pay for the tuition. liberal arts major undergrad, but could potentially go back to job pre-law school in an industry that pays 50k/year entry.


I've already talked to my parents - they don't know what to make of things.

Anonymous User
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:29 pm

I wouldn't count on PI as a certain fallback if you don't have a relevant background/demonstrable interest to a particular area. There are literally thousands of median/below median T20 grads who look to PI, and in sorting wheat from chaff, PI orgs look for some sign of interest and/or commitment in their area.


Anonymous User wrote:
Agent wrote:I'd discuss this with my family. Before speaking with them, I'd be sure to equip them with adequate information about debt and the legal job market. Sorry, this will probably be a pretty rough discussion.

Anonymous User wrote:Lower T-14, no journal, moot court, below median. No debt, but family taking out loans on mortgage to pay for the tuition. liberal arts major undergrad, but could potentially go back to job pre-law school in an industry that pays 50k/year entry.


I've already talked to my parents - they don't know what to make of things.


First thing you need to figure out is the refund deadline for next semester--if you can get at least some of your grades back before you hit the point of no return, there's no reason not to stay in till at least then. If you have to make a decision before finding out grades, it's a much tougher call. If you do well, then you should give strong thought to staying in. If you stay around median or below, then you should probably drop out. Either way, if you continue, you need to take out your own loans and stop jeopardizing the asset that presumably represents most of your parents' savings. Assuming you even filed a FAFSA and are eligible for loans this year...

Agent
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby Agent » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:37 pm

Try doing a more thorough job of equipping them with information. Maybe give them a copy of Tamanaha's book (Failing Law Schools) or direct them to a few scamblogs or something like that. And keep in mind that they might remain unwilling to do anything besides deferring to your judgment while offering unconditional support. If that's the case, you will probably want to make a call on your own or with advice from a more objective party.

Anonymous User wrote:I've already talked to my parents - they don't know what to make of things.

BeenDidThat
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby BeenDidThat » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Not to hijack this thread, but what about my situation?

Lower T-14, no journal, moot court, below median. No debt, but family taking out loans on mortgage to pay for the tuition. liberal arts major undergrad, but could potentially go back to job pre-law school in an industry that pays 50k/year entry.


Financially it's probably a toss-up (though why your family is willing to take out a mortgage rather than make you pay back loans after the fact is far, far beyond me). If you want to be a lawyer/think it will be a good career path for you, I'd say stick it out. If you don't really like it and liked your previous job, maybe it's time to slide on out.

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jessuf
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby jessuf » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:17 pm

Have you tried gov't, in-house, COA judges, etc.? If you don't want PI ever, those might be better alternatives for you. A lot of gov't summer programs have deadlines coming up soon, and COA judges will get a flood of 1L resumes in a few days.

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dingbat
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby dingbat » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:24 pm

No one seems to have asked the big question:

How badly do you want to be a lawyer?

Anonymous User
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So here is my position:
I currently attend a T20 school, am in the top 20% of my class, have a 3.6 GPA, and am on a secondary journal. I struck out at OCI and have nothing lined up for the summer, but at this point, I'm guessing PI will be what I will have to do. I have no interest in PI work and want a firm job. The question I'm wrangling with is if I should just fold now or hang on and hope for a clerkship since that seems like my best shot at this point. What do you guys think?


Not sure I get this. You should have a reasonable shot at a firm job, maybe smaller firm, with those credentials. Interview issues or lack of other resume expectations? Trying to get into a market that you have no ties?

kryptix
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Re: Bet the Farm or Drop out

Postby kryptix » Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:44 pm

It comes down to how well you think you can do in 3L OCI/mass mailing. With your grades at UCLA/USC/UT you should have a good shot at LA or TX firms. Where you run into trouble is if your at Vanderbilt/MN/GW because your home markets are so small that if you don't get NYC etc, your local firms likely don't pay like biglaw. Basically if I were you at one of the first three I wouldn't worry, one of the last three and I'd have to decide how much I want to be a lawyer...

EDIT:

Wanted to clarify on GW, DC is so competitive that they don't actually seem to place as well as their rankings would indicate which would be my source of worry.




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