Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

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SuperCerealBrah
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby SuperCerealBrah » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:20 pm

anon168 wrote:
ResJudicata738 wrote:I am looking for some advice about an internship at a law firm I have been working at part time for approximately the past 5 months. The situation is a little complicated, so bear with me while I explain it.

First off, I am a 3L. The firm I work at is very small; the only permanent employees are one attorney ("Chuck") and another J.D. ("John") who only acts as a law clerk. I initially met Chuck and his firm because my girlfriend was their client. She asked about the possibility of me doing some work for them, which led to an interview, and ultimately to me working as an intern there. I'm not entirely sure what to call my position, actually. The firm specializes in medical malpractice, but also takes on a number of random cases. I have been working on all sorts of litigation documents, such as complaints, RFAs, RPDs, answers, settlement brochures, etc., as well as various research. I also generally assist around the office (answering phones, talking to potential clients, contacting existing clients, drafting random documents for Chuck, etc.). Keep in mind that, while I am not compensated, these are the tasks that other people in the office are paid to do.

Chuck is pretty cold around the office and I usually interact with John about what I need to be doing on a given day, or what changes I need to make to anything I am working on. It doesn't really bother me how Chuck acts. If he wants to have that type of relationship with his employees, that's his prerogative. It's frustrating at times when he hardly gives me any feedback--negative or positive--about my work. Still, that's also his decision.

Continuing, my girlfriend still has some interaction with Chuck. While he is not friendly towards me, he is very open and talkative with her. Ok, she's a pretty girl and I'm just some law student; still not a huge deal. So, my girlfriend happened to ask Chuck about the possibility of me getting paid for my work (which I didn't ask her to do). This is where my issue lies.

Chuck and my girlfriend have a phone conversation wherein Chuck explains why I should not be paid. While that does not please me, I let it roll off my back. Chuck has never expressed this sort of dissatisfaction to me personally. John has expressed that I am doing a good job at the firm, so I am also a little confused. A few days later Chuck asks my girlfriend to come into his office for seemingly unrelated matters. I don't know exactly what happened at the meeting between Chuck and my girlfriend, but somehow the topic switched to my work / why I am not getting paid. Chuck proceeds to tell my girlfriend what his problems are with my work. But he doesn't stop there. He proceeds to show her documents I have been working on and point out his problems with them, and to tell her how I am "not ready to be an attorney". He asks her not to tell me that he has shown her these things or made these comments.

To me, this is very inappropriate. I am not sure he is crossing any ethical or legal boundaries, but it sure as hell isn't how I think a law office (or business of any sort) should be run. I am inclined to stop working for him (at this point I feel like I am doing him a favor as I routinely do for free what he compensates undergraduate students for doing), and I think I should at least confront him about it. What irks me the most is that he holds himself out as being this very professional and ethical man, while to me that seems far from the truth. Anyway, I am not trying to vent about my feelings regarding the situation. I am just curious if others think this behavior is not acceptable, or have any recommendations about what I should do.


The way you are phrasing your question and the situation in general just begs for sympathy.

But like everything in life there are probably 100 sides to this story, if not more.

Let's just take the facts as you've presented them, shorn of any of judgment or bias.

1. You were work for free

2. You seem to like John

3. You don't appear to like Chuck

4. Your girlfriend is a client of Chuck's

5. Your girlfriend asks Chuck if you can get paid for your work

6. Chuck declines your girlfriend's request

7. Chuck shows your girlfriend your workproduct

From all of that, you claim that Chuck (1) has it in for you and (2) was off-base in showing your workproduct to your GF.

From all of that,I can also spin it to say that Chuck only showed GF your workproduct to justify not paying you. It was, after all, your GF who approached Chuck about getting you paid, and Chuck being the sage business person that he is, and knowing that your GF is his client, did not want to offend her. Maybe Chuck feels like your workproduct is subpar but doesn't want to can you for fear of losing the business your GF is providing him. So he takes the middle ground -- keeps you around on an "intern" basis to humor the GF, but not pay you so that he's not out-of-pocket for subpar workproduct.

Life's never as simple as people say it is. We can all sit here and listen to your side of the story and bang on Chuck, but life's not always that simple. If one wanted to be a total prick about it, one might ask, "why, as a 3L, you're slumming in a solo shop based only on a connection that GF got you?" But we won't go there.


no

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20160810
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby 20160810 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:A few things:

1. What is your girlfriend doing talking to this guy anymore?
2. What is your girlfriend doing talking to this guy about paying you? How does she not know this is inappropriate?

3. You can't complain about him showing your girlfriend your work, because she has basically become a parent acting as an intermediary between her 15 year old son and his employer at American Eagle.

4. As someone mentioned earlier, this stubby boss of yours wants to bang your girlfriend. This is what happens with stubby shitlaw attorneys who are on the wrong side of 40 and never get laid.

This is the only credited question remaining in this thread.

OP, your gf has no reason to be talking to this guy. 24-year-old chicks aren't friends with 45-year-old lawyers, though they do occasionally get banged by them if they have weird dad/stepdad issues they're working out or if they like to do coke. You gotta get to the bottom of what's going on here. I recommend taking John out for beers and asking him what the deal is between those two.

Also, ignore everyone telling you to sue Chuck or any kind of dramatic nonsense. It's not worth your time. Just quit.

rad lulz
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby rad lulz » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:44 pm

SBL wrote:Also, ignore everyone telling you to sue Chuck or any kind of dramatic nonsense. It's not worth your time. Just quit.

TCR. Jaysus people.

BeenDidThat
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby BeenDidThat » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:48 pm

Leave is the obvious one.

Other possible options on top of leaving:
File a grievance (violation if dumbshit is showing your gf confidential client info)
Sue for wages (I kinda doubt you qualify as an intern)

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20160810
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby 20160810 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:55 pm

BeenDidThat wrote:Leave is the obvious one.

Other possible options on top of leaving:
File a grievance (violation if dumbshit is showing your gf confidential client info)
Sue for wages (I kinda doubt you qualify as an intern)

Just quit.

rad lulz
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby rad lulz » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:31 pm

BeenDidThat wrote:Leave is the obvious one.

Other possible options on top of leaving:
File a grievance (violation if dumbshit is showing your gf confidential client info)
Sue for wages (I kinda doubt you qualify as an intern)

ResJudicata738
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby ResJudicata738 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:07 pm

UPDATE:

First, my girlfriend is now cutting off all contact with Chuck. She walked out of his office when he started to inform her about his view of the quality of my work. I can understand why she was still talking to him up to this point; he will usually give her free legal advice when she has a question a 3L might not have the best answer to. I've always knew that he had a thing for her, but just looked the other way as I was confident nothing would come of it. But I can't do that anymore.

I also got more details. She told me that, not only did he show her my work, but he handed her a copy of a settlement brochure from a case that settled confidentially a few months ago as well.

Even worse, he decided to tell my girlfriend that I was not good enough for her, and that she would not be happy with me. Apparently he believes I am only motivated "by what other people want" and not on my own.

He also TEXTED MY GIRLFRIEND tonight and said "you did a good job today... maybe I should hire you." (she went in there to review a chapter of a book he is trying to publish).

When I got these later details I was furious. Thankfully I had a pack of smokes handy to calm me down.

Oh, and I'm not looking for sympathy. Anon168, whoever you may be, you are an idiot.

Anyway, there is no way I am rendering my sub-par services to this pompous "donkey" again.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:18 pm

This dude is clearly trying to bone your gf. It had to be obvious to her. How much "legal advice" did she really need anyway?

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BlaqBella
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby BlaqBella » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:40 pm

This story keeps getting better and better. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I look forward to subsequent updates of your girlfriend leaving you for Chuck the Shmuck. :lol:

I must say, the dude got some major balls being this aggressive.

Anonymous User
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:43 pm

worldtraveler wrote:This dude is clearly trying to bone your gf. It had to be obvious to her. How much "legal advice" did she really need anyway?


lol +1

OP, how much do you trust your girlfriend?

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20160810
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby 20160810 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:44 pm

Here's the thing, Broheim,

It's not really news that he was trying to pork your gf, everyone ITT figured that out just by your first post. The texting, "he's not good enough for you," etc. just confirms what we already knew. It's chill that she's cutting off contact with him now (hopefully she volunteered to do this), but I'm just not sure why she was putting herself in the position to keep interacting with him. What chick your age requires constant legal advice? Is she running a business or something? I think she liked the attention she was getting from El Chuckster, which could spell trouble for the two of you down the line.

Be real here dude: Is she better looking than you? If the answer is yes, I'm smelling trouble.

Anonymous User
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:47 pm

SBL wrote:Here's the thing, Broheim,

It's not really news that he was trying to pork your gf, everyone ITT figured that out just by your first post. The texting, "he's not good enough for you," etc. just confirms what we already knew. It's chill that she's cutting off contact with him now (hopefully she volunteered to do this), but I'm just not sure why she was putting herself in the position to keep interacting with him. What chick your age requires constant legal advice? Is she running a business or something? I think she liked the attention she was getting from El Chuckster, which could spell trouble for the two of you down the line.

Be real here dude: Is she better looking than you? If the answer is yes, I'm smelling trouble.


This.

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BlaqBella
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby BlaqBella » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:47 pm

worldtraveler wrote:This dude is clearly trying to bone your gf. It had to be obvious to her. How much "legal advice" did she really need anyway?


Of course its obvious, and she is returning because she likes the aggression. OP, I hope you don't end up getting cucked.

Pokemon
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby Pokemon » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:59 pm

OP, you should watch this movie, the book is even better.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057345/

ResJudicata738
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby ResJudicata738 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:05 pm

I am not going to go into any details, but she is in an ongoing legal dispute that is very complicated and involves multiple parties. She has been doing the whole thing pro se (neither of us has the money for an attorney), and I can only do so much because I don't want to jeopardize my future career.

Also, just to clear this up, we have been together for more than two years and I trust her completely. If she was going to cheat on me it would not be with this short, stout, balding man. Her seeking advice from him in the past was understandable because he helped her reach a favorable settlement a while back.

There is no doubt about how shady of a character Chuck is. He is only a few weeks away from publishing a book which details how he fell in love with an escort; a lady of the night who, after he professed his love to her, sent him a rather hilarious letter informing him that she was only with him because he paid her. I will give him some meager props for having the cojones to sell this book under his real name.

Anonymous User
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:08 pm

quit then post excerpts from the book on TLS like a weekly serial.

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barestin
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby barestin » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:08 pm

ResJudicata738 wrote:I am not going to go into any details, but she is in an ongoing legal dispute that is very complicated and involves multiple parties. She has been doing the whole thing pro se (neither of us has the money for an attorney), and I can only do so much because I don't want to jeopardize my future career.

Also, just to clear this up, we have been together for more than two years and I trust her completely. If she was going to cheat on me it would not be with this short, stout, balding man. Her seeking advice from him in the past was understandable because he helped her reach a favorable settlement a while back.

There is no doubt about how shady of a character Chuck is. He is only a few weeks away from publishing a book which details how he fell in love with an escort; a lady of the night who, after he professed his love to her, sent him a rather hilarious letter informing him that she was only with him because he paid her. I will give him some meager props for having the cojones to sell this book under his real name.


What's the name of the book going to be? Also, he sounds like an awesome person and your girlfriend sounds like a real keeper.

ResJudicata738
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby ResJudicata738 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:15 pm

I feel like I shouldn't promote his book because, as they say, any publicity is good publicity. But maybe I could be convinced.

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SuperCerealBrah
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby SuperCerealBrah » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:17 pm

ResJudicata738 wrote:I am not going to go into any details, but she is in an ongoing legal dispute that is very complicated and involves multiple parties. She has been doing the whole thing pro se (neither of us has the money for an attorney), and I can only do so much because I don't want to jeopardize my future career.

Also, just to clear this up, we have been together for more than two years and I trust her completely. If she was going to cheat on me it would not be with this short, stout, balding man. Her seeking advice from him in the past was understandable because he helped her reach a favorable settlement a while back.

There is no doubt about how shady of a character Chuck is. He is only a few weeks away from publishing a book which details how he fell in love with an escort; a lady of the night who, after he professed his love to her, sent him a rather hilarious letter informing him that she was only with him because he paid her. I will give him some meager props for having the cojones to sell this book under his real name.


He sounds like a very lonely man.

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20160810
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby 20160810 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:20 pm

SuperCerealBrah wrote:
ResJudicata738 wrote:I am not going to go into any details, but she is in an ongoing legal dispute that is very complicated and involves multiple parties. She has been doing the whole thing pro se (neither of us has the money for an attorney), and I can only do so much because I don't want to jeopardize my future career.

Also, just to clear this up, we have been together for more than two years and I trust her completely. If she was going to cheat on me it would not be with this short, stout, balding man. Her seeking advice from him in the past was understandable because he helped her reach a favorable settlement a while back.

There is no doubt about how shady of a character Chuck is. He is only a few weeks away from publishing a book which details how he fell in love with an escort; a lady of the night who, after he professed his love to her, sent him a rather hilarious letter informing him that she was only with him because he paid her. I will give him some meager props for having the cojones to sell this book under his real name.

I'm tempted to say you should just out him on TLS. These forums get enough traffic that this thread will probably be on the first page when you Google his name in no time, plus it would bring epic lulz. Understand though that that's probably a bad idea unless you feel like spending your spare time defending a defamation suit.

He sounds like a very lonely man.

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20160810
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby 20160810 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:21 pm

Ugh, quote fail on my part. Too lazy to edit.

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UnamSanctam
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby UnamSanctam » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:47 am

Sincerely, OP, thank you for this story.

uvabro
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby uvabro » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:06 am

OP, I'm by no means a duder who can just quit a job and have mommy and daddy bankroll me a mill, but i wouldn't stay there EVEN IF I WAS GETTING PAID.

It is a career, not 1 job. 1 thing in life is unless u just blast from natural confidence cause u look like brad pitt or have a 6 foot schlong, you build confidence from ur day to day life. Confidence is key to getting ahead in anything, especially this crap.

I wouldn't be able to be confident if the person I'm supposed to be looking up to and fighting to make more $ for had no respect for my work, lawyering abilities and me as a person to the extent he was trying to bang my girlfriend while badmouthing me while breaking the law to work me for free.

HWS08
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby HWS08 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:27 am

I think I'd probably just cut my losses. You can send Chuck a letter or speak with him about your expectations of being paid, but didn't you know he was not intending to pay you when you signed up for this? I doubt you'll get any money from him. You probably could file a bar complaint for a 1.6 violation because he showed your gf documents pertaining to another client's case, but it may depend on the specific content of the documents. Also, I'm not sure if that would have any lasting impacts on your career/reputation if you want to get a job in that market. It's not fair and a bad situation to be in, but I'm trying to think practically.

Why did your gf hire this guy in the first place? He doesn't sound very professional.

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YankeesFan
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Re: Questionable behavior by supervising attorney

Postby YankeesFan » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:54 am

I would use a discussion with Chuck about the compensation as a way out. Say that you feel like you've done work that deserves compensation and given him access to your Westlaw/Nexis accounts, which saved him tons of money. Be really nice and if he says no or blows up at you then just say you cannot continue to work without compensation given the work you are doing, but that you really enjoyed working for him.




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