SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

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reputable_dog
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SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby reputable_dog » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:40 am

Has anyone heard anything from the SEC for 2013? I applied about a month ago, and haven't heard anything.

Zimant
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby Zimant » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:49 pm

Did Honors internship last summer at RO. If thread gets moving and anyone has questions I am more than willing to answer them.

Anonymous User
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:58 pm

Zimant wrote:Did Honors internship last summer at RO. If thread gets moving and anyone has questions I am more than willing to answer them.



If you do this as a 2L, what do your career options look like post grad. Will you still be able to get biglaw? Or would you go the government route?

I'm interested in doing either securities litigation or capital markets work at a firm after law school. Looks like I may not land a firm gig this summer. I also applied to the SEC, wondering how much this may help, or hurt me.

LawIdiot86
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby LawIdiot86 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Zimant wrote:Did Honors internship last summer at RO. If thread gets moving and anyone has questions I am more than willing to answer them.



If you do this as a 2L, what do your career options look like post grad. Will you still be able to get biglaw? Or would you go the government route?

I'm interested in doing either securities litigation or capital markets work at a firm after law school. Looks like I may not land a firm gig this summer. I also applied to the SEC, wondering how much this may help, or hurt me.


Sorry, so many people do the SEC internship program that it really counts for nothing special compared to other unpaid federal work. Definitely not biglaw and probably not securities litigation, unless you mean FINRA employment arbitration, or capital markets work, unless you mean non-JD required compliance work.

Anonymous User
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:30 pm

worked in a smaller SEC RO last summer as a 1L. For 1L's this plus grades seems to be a good set up for securities big law. For 1L's without grades or 2L's, biglaw isn't a likely outcome nor is getting SEC as a 3L (unless you had the grades for biglaw anyway).

One plus from the smaller RO's vs the larger ones or DC though seems to be connections to state securities enforcement agencies (with a possible return to the SEC RO 2 or 3 years down the road). The lawyers really tried to help a 2L in my office that wanted this path and even helped to line up the interview. Several of them had taken a similar path and ended up back at the SEC. Not sure if this occurs at the larger RO's or in DC, but could be something to aim for if you've already missed on biglaw.

Zimant
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby Zimant » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:worked in a smaller SEC RO last summer as a 1L. For 1L's this plus grades seems to be a good set up for securities big law. For 1L's without grades or 2L's, biglaw isn't a likely outcome nor is getting SEC as a 3L (unless you had the grades for biglaw anyway).

One plus from the smaller RO's vs the larger ones or DC though seems to be connections to state securities enforcement agencies (with a possible return to the SEC RO 2 or 3 years down the road). The lawyers really tried to help a 2L in my office that wanted this path and even helped to line up the interview. Several of them had taken a similar path and ended up back at the SEC. Not sure if this occurs at the larger RO's or in DC, but could be something to aim for if you've already missed on biglaw.


Same. Interned at RO as a 1L. As far as OCI's this fall, most thought it was pretty impressive for a 1L. I got CB's over others similarly situated in rank that did federal judicial externships over the summer and what not. And because I showed an interest in securities law, I interviewed with those in the Corporate & Securities PG's at the firms and they were mostly impressed. I had really no previous experience with the securities laws going in, and now I am writing my LR note on securities law.

As far as career options, I can't really see how grades+SEC internship hurts you for going big law, at least as a 1L summer. However, the 2L's I interned with were still worried over the summer about what to do post-grad, and I haven't spoken with them to see if SEC internship helped out. Most were looking at gov't work. I would think as a 2L, if you want to go gov't route, SEC internship is solid. Advantage of a RO for me was more substantive work than others. Best I can say is I really enjoyed my experience and it has done nothing but help me.

reputable_dog
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby reputable_dog » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:56 pm

Thanks for the replies. I still haven't heard anything, but I noticed the deadline was extended until November 2. I'll post again if I hear anything. For those who went through the program in the past, I'd be interested to hear how it helped in your job search after 3L.

Anonymous User
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:32 pm

reputable_dog wrote:Thanks for the replies. I still haven't heard anything, but I noticed the deadline was extended until November 2. I'll post again if I hear anything. For those who went through the program in the past, I'd be interested to hear how it helped in your job search after 3L.


I've been selected for an interview at one of the ROs. I'm very wary of taking an unpaid position, though, if there's little or no chance of it leading to employment afterward. I don't really know what to think right now.

Tullstone
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby Tullstone » Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
reputable_dog wrote:Thanks for the replies. I still haven't heard anything, but I noticed the deadline was extended until November 2. I'll post again if I hear anything. For those who went through the program in the past, I'd be interested to hear how it helped in your job search after 3L.


I've been selected for an interview at one of the ROs. I'm very wary of taking an unpaid position, though, if there's little or no chance of it leading to employment afterward. I don't really know what to think right now.


You wouldnt be interviewing with the Miami office, would you?

Anonymous User
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:36 pm

Recently was selected for an interview as well. Excited because I have a strong interest in this area of law. Bummed because I will still need to secure post-graduation employment and not sure if this internship will help me at all.

Anonymous User
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Recently was selected for an interview as well. Excited because I have a strong interest in this area of law. Bummed because I will still need to secure post-graduation employment and not sure if this internship will help me at all.


[I'm the Anon from Nov 26, 2012 8:32 pm above]

I feel exactly the same way. I really don't think it's going to help with any kind of post-grad position at all. It has been made clear to me that there simply are no SEC positions, and I don't see it being persuasive in any other context, either. It's better than doing nothing, obviously, which is my other option despite my decent qualifications (T25, top 10%, Law Review, Moot Court, etc etc). I'm fairly demoralized and I just wish more than anything that I could do something this summer that wouldn't involve me losing enormous amounts of money. Minimum wage would be plenty. Sigh.


Tullstone wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
reputable_dog wrote:Thanks for the replies. I still haven't heard anything, but I noticed the deadline was extended until November 2. I'll post again if I hear anything. For those who went through the program in the past, I'd be interested to hear how it helped in your job search after 3L.


I've been selected for an interview at one of the ROs. I'm very wary of taking an unpaid position, though, if there's little or no chance of it leading to employment afterward. I don't really know what to think right now.



You wouldnt be interviewing with the Miami office, would you?




And no, not the Miami office, sorry. Good luck to you though and keep us posted. I'll be sure to do the same.

Anonymous User
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Recently was selected for an interview as well. Excited because I have a strong interest in this area of law. Bummed because I will still need to secure post-graduation employment and not sure if this internship will help me at all.


[I'm the Anon from Nov 26, 2012 8:32 pm above]

I feel exactly the same way. I really don't think it's going to help with any kind of post-grad position at all. It has been made clear to me that there simply are no SEC positions, and I don't see it being persuasive in any other context, either. It's better than doing nothing, obviously, which is my other option despite my decent qualifications (T25, top 10%, Law Review, Moot Court, etc etc). I'm fairly demoralized and I just wish more than anything that I could do something this summer that wouldn't involve me losing enormous amounts of money. Minimum wage would be plenty. Sigh.


Tullstone wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
reputable_dog wrote:Thanks for the replies. I still haven't heard anything, but I noticed the deadline was extended until November 2. I'll post again if I hear anything. For those who went through the program in the past, I'd be interested to hear how it helped in your job search after 3L.


I've been selected for an interview at one of the ROs. I'm very wary of taking an unpaid position, though, if there's little or no chance of it leading to employment afterward. I don't really know what to think right now.



You wouldnt be interviewing with the Miami office, would you?




And no, not the Miami office, sorry. Good luck to you though and keep us posted. I'll be sure to do the same.



In a simliar situation. Top 10% law review, but from a lower ranked school than you. While the SEC Honors alone isn't much anymore, I am hoping that with decent stats PLUS the sec this summer, if firms are looking for 3Ls next year I will have a fighting chance.

Anonymous User
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:03 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Zimant wrote:Did Honors internship last summer at RO. If thread gets moving and anyone has questions I am more than willing to answer them.



If you do this as a 2L, what do your career options look like post grad. Will you still be able to get biglaw? Or would you go the government route?

I'm interested in doing either securities litigation or capital markets work at a firm after law school. Looks like I may not land a firm gig this summer. I also applied to the SEC, wondering how much this may help, or hurt me.


Sorry, so many people do the SEC internship program that it really counts for nothing special compared to other unpaid federal work. Definitely not biglaw and probably not securities litigation, unless you mean FINRA employment arbitration, or capital markets work, unless you mean non-JD required compliance work.


Just curious as to what your justification for this statement (that biglaw is no longer an option after doing the SEC 2L) is. Have you been in this position or a similar position and had a hard time finding jobs? I've heard the opposite: "if you can't get a firm job and want to work at a firm, this is your next best option," from the career services office at my school (I am skeptical of everything they say, but who knows, maybe they're right. Or maybe "next best option" really means "not a viable option.")

I will be there this summer as a 2L and am optimistic about the opportunities this might provide. Maybe I'm only optimistic cause it's my only option and this is some sort of psychological protection trick my mind is playing on me, but I'm happy with my choice. I can't imagine that it "counts for nothing." The SEC has instant name recognition, it will be a fantastic learning experience, and is much more focused on the area of law that I eventually want to practice than other unpaid federal work. I will probably learn more there that a future employer will view as valuable experience than at a firm. And the people there will be a great networking resource for the post-grad job hunt.

I struck out at OCI and really wanted a firm gig, but didn't get one and this seemed like the next best option, so I took it. I'm also open to government work post grad. I'm just hoping I can find a job in the market I want (not DC) after graduation. Obviously I'm trying to bring my grades up so that 3L OCI is an option, but no idea if I can. My concern is that I don't want to litigate.

I'm curious about how this experience would look for trying to get:

1. midlaw rather than biglaw (around $100k starting salary in a major city) post graduation.

2. a govt job in a major city other than DC that isn't litigation. (I am aware there is zero possibility of making around $100k early on in govt, but you move up pay grades pretty quickly and as long as I can make around $100k a few years out, I am fine with that)

3. a clerkship? I know they're super competitive, but what about a clerkship in a bankruptcy court or something (and how would a bankruptcy or less prestigious state court clerkship translate into a law firm)?

Anyone have thoughts?

Stats:
MVP, secondary journal, right around median GPA (don't actually know if it's below or above, don't know class rank or %ile).

Personally, I'm excited that this might lead to a more interesting career path than getting a biglaw summer associate job and then being stuck in a job I hate for 3 years until I can transition to somewhere I actually want to be. Don't get me wrong, I would have taken a SA job in a heartbeat if I had gotten it, and I went into law school thinking the only thing in life I want is to be a partner at a law firm someday, but I just keep hearing how horrible your life is as an associate at a biglaw firm is and that's made me think that biglaw might not be the right choice for me. My original plan was to land biglaw at OCI and eventually move to a smaller firm as a partner or something (since partnership at biglaw is basically a pipe dream), but now I've got to figure out a different way of getting there, and that reality has also opened my eyes to other career paths. I've talked to a bunch of people in govt about their jobs and yes, obviously it's less pay, but the hours are also way less, they absolutely adore their job, and life is much more enjoyable. And you can break into a decent paying firm later in your career as a partner after working in government for a while, but I think it would be hard to go from being a junior or midlevel associate in biglaw who has spent the past few years doing nothing but doc review to working for the govt if you've had no government experience ever, especially because you don't have a variety of useful skills despite your large bank account. I guess it comes down to what you want out of life, a personal life or tons of money, but maybe not getting biglaw this summer will be a blessing in disguise.

Anyway, I just thought I'd put some positive thoughts out into the universe, since there seems to be a lot of negativity going around amongst 2Ls who didn't get the biglaw OCI SA job they were hoping for. It's really annoying to keep hearing about friends' SA jobs, and it seems like everyone I know has one, but I think there must be a ton of people who still don't have any paying prospects. I'm excited to finally be done with this process rather than passing this opportunity up and hoping some tiny firm will pick me up after being rejected from at least 200 firms, many of which I only applied to because they are a paid job in the city I want to be in (obviously I was more convincing in my cover letter), rather than because it would be a good start to my career. Those jobs probably wouldn't do much for my long term career prospects anyway, if I ever wanted to leave.

I don't believe that this experience (even if my GPA stays the same, although I hope it goes up) + networking like crazy in the city I want to end up in throughout the rest of this year and during the summer (I recognize this will be tough going to school in a different city and living in a different city this summer) can't eventually lead to something post-grad that makes me happy, even if it's not biglaw.

Anonymous User
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:13 pm

Just curious as to what your justification for this statement (that biglaw is no longer an option after doing the SEC 2L) is. Have you been in this position or a similar position and had a hard time finding jobs?


I struck out at OCI and really wanted a firm gig, but didn't get one and this seemed like the next best option, so I took it.


New anonymous poster here. Oh hai me from last year. For what it's worth, I was asking all these questions, and now I'm looking for a job. Doesn't mean I won't get one, but the biggest issue is that whatever argument could be made for SEC experience, the 3L hiring market is nonexistent. Hope that helps.

Edit: For further evidence, on that point, you may find this thread informative. viewtopic.php?f=23&t=192753

Anonymous User
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Just curious as to what your justification for this statement (that biglaw is no longer an option after doing the SEC 2L) is. Have you been in this position or a similar position and had a hard time finding jobs?


I struck out at OCI and really wanted a firm gig, but didn't get one and this seemed like the next best option, so I took it.


New anonymous poster here. Oh hai me from last year. For what it's worth, I was asking all these questions, and now I'm looking for a job. Doesn't mean I won't get one, but the biggest issue is that whatever argument could be made for SEC experience, the 3L hiring market is nonexistent. Hope that helps.

Edit: For further evidence, on that point, you may find this thread informative. viewtopic.php?f=23&t=192753


Hi future me. I appreciate your honesty and would love to hear more about your experience. In terms of the nonexistence of the "3L hiring market" you speak of, does that mean the biglaw hiring market specifically, or does it include hiring market for any firm? Does this also include government work? Do you feel that certain jobs are simply out of reach due to your 2L summer experience, and if so, which? If you don't mind sharing, which city are you looking in (or are you trying in multiple)?

I have indeed seen that thread. It is discouraging but I refuse to lose hope.

LawIdiot86
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby LawIdiot86 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Zimant wrote:Did Honors internship last summer at RO. If thread gets moving and anyone has questions I am more than willing to answer them.



If you do this as a 2L, what do your career options look like post grad. Will you still be able to get biglaw? Or would you go the government route?

I'm interested in doing either securities litigation or capital markets work at a firm after law school. Looks like I may not land a firm gig this summer. I also applied to the SEC, wondering how much this may help, or hurt me.


Sorry, so many people do the SEC internship program that it really counts for nothing special compared to other unpaid federal work. Definitely not biglaw and probably not securities litigation, unless you mean FINRA employment arbitration, or capital markets work, unless you mean non-JD required compliance work.


Just curious as to what your justification for this statement (that biglaw is no longer an option after doing the SEC 2L) is. Have you been in this position or a similar position and had a hard time finding jobs? I've heard the opposite: "if you can't get a firm job and want to work at a firm, this is your next best option," from the career services office at my school (I am skeptical of everything they say, but who knows, maybe they're right. Or maybe "next best option" really means "not a viable option.")

I will be there this summer as a 2L and am optimistic about the opportunities this might provide. Maybe I'm only optimistic cause it's my only option and this is some sort of psychological protection trick my mind is playing on me, but I'm happy with my choice. I can't imagine that it "counts for nothing." The SEC has instant name recognition, it will be a fantastic learning experience, and is much more focused on the area of law that I eventually want to practice than other unpaid federal work. I will probably learn more there that a future employer will view as valuable experience than at a firm. And the people there will be a great networking resource for the post-grad job hunt.

I struck out at OCI and really wanted a firm gig, but didn't get one and this seemed like the next best option, so I took it. I'm also open to government work post grad. I'm just hoping I can find a job in the market I want (not DC) after graduation. Obviously I'm trying to bring my grades up so that 3L OCI is an option, but no idea if I can. My concern is that I don't want to litigate.

I'm curious about how this experience would look for trying to get:

1. midlaw rather than biglaw (around $100k starting salary in a major city) post graduation.

2. a govt job in a major city other than DC that isn't litigation. (I am aware there is zero possibility of making around $100k early on in govt, but you move up pay grades pretty quickly and as long as I can make around $100k a few years out, I am fine with that)

3. a clerkship? I know they're super competitive, but what about a clerkship in a bankruptcy court or something (and how would a bankruptcy or less prestigious state court clerkship translate into a law firm)?

Anyone have thoughts?

Stats:
MVP, secondary journal, right around median GPA (don't actually know if it's below or above, don't know class rank or %ile).

Personally, I'm excited that this might lead to a more interesting career path than getting a biglaw summer associate job and then being stuck in a job I hate for 3 years until I can transition to somewhere I actually want to be. Don't get me wrong, I would have taken a SA job in a heartbeat if I had gotten it, and I went into law school thinking the only thing in life I want is to be a partner at a law firm someday, but I just keep hearing how horrible your life is as an associate at a biglaw firm is and that's made me think that biglaw might not be the right choice for me. My original plan was to land biglaw at OCI and eventually move to a smaller firm as a partner or something (since partnership at biglaw is basically a pipe dream), but now I've got to figure out a different way of getting there, and that reality has also opened my eyes to other career paths. I've talked to a bunch of people in govt about their jobs and yes, obviously it's less pay, but the hours are also way less, they absolutely adore their job, and life is much more enjoyable. And you can break into a decent paying firm later in your career as a partner after working in government for a while, but I think it would be hard to go from being a junior or midlevel associate in biglaw who has spent the past few years doing nothing but doc review to working for the govt if you've had no government experience ever, especially because you don't have a variety of useful skills despite your large bank account. I guess it comes down to what you want out of life, a personal life or tons of money, but maybe not getting biglaw this summer will be a blessing in disguise.

Anyway, I just thought I'd put some positive thoughts out into the universe, since there seems to be a lot of negativity going around amongst 2Ls who didn't get the biglaw OCI SA job they were hoping for. It's really annoying to keep hearing about friends' SA jobs, and it seems like everyone I know has one, but I think there must be a ton of people who still don't have any paying prospects. I'm excited to finally be done with this process rather than passing this opportunity up and hoping some tiny firm will pick me up after being rejected from at least 200 firms, many of which I only applied to because they are a paid job in the city I want to be in (obviously I was more convincing in my cover letter), rather than because it would be a good start to my career. Those jobs probably wouldn't do much for my long term career prospects anyway, if I ever wanted to leave.

I don't believe that this experience (even if my GPA stays the same, although I hope it goes up) + networking like crazy in the city I want to end up in throughout the rest of this year and during the summer (I recognize this will be tough going to school in a different city and living in a different city this summer) can't eventually lead to something post-grad that makes me happy, even if it's not biglaw.


I wrote the original statement and I stand by it because I had stats identical to yours. There is no 3L OCI, and by 3L OCI I define it as the NLJ350. As most people define midlaw, there is also no 3L hiring. "I will probably learn more there that a future employer will view as valuable experience than at a firm." That's not true. Going to a firm means someone vetted you and thought you were at the top of the pile they had to pick from; you'd learn basically the same thing as an SA that you'll learn at the SEC. Government hiring requires a high level of interest as well, beyond working at the SEC. The fact that you will be 1 of 300 unemployed former SEC interns greatly reduces the dedication factor (why would the NRC hire an ex-SEC intern?) I interviewed for SEC regional positions and they said my SEC internship would make me a great fit, but that they hadn't had funding for entry level JD hires in 2.5 years and would be in touch if they ever did.

When your CSO says it's the next best thing, they mean that it's better than a non-legal or USAO/judge 2L summer; it still have a 0% shot of getting a firm. You say you talk to people in government jobs, but the government isn't hiring like it used to and there is far more competition from laterals. Your best bet would be to look at quasi-legal options like PMF, contract management, etc.

Bankruptcy clerkships translate into bankruptcy practices. I got 2 bankruptcy interviews out of 90 apps with stats identical to you and neither panned out. SSCs and other state clerkships translate to local 25-40 lawyer firms starting at 60k and even then, your stats are a coin flip for a SSC. At this point you should be looking at triage to get anything you can before/at graduation so you don't fall into the abyss of being last year's fad. I'm not trying to be mean, but I don't see how you can hold the optimistic views you do.

Anonymous User
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:so you don't fall into the abyss of being last year's fad


Apparently you're trying to be the law school version of shakespeare

Yes, nothing is guaranteed and it sucks you didn't get a 2L SA even though you had a shot (I'm in the same position, similar stats, got a bunch of interviews but nothing worked out). You still have options.

Get your grades up a bit, write a note, and you're definitely competitive for a flyover district court clerkship or an SSC. If you take a bankruptcy class and do well or even try working at a firm that does a lot of bankruptcy work, you should definitely be competitive for a bankruptcy clerkship as well. As for 3L OCI... it exists. Its damn hard to get anything, especially if you don't have a 2L SA. You shouldn't count on it by any means, but there are offers made. You should be doing everything you can to make yourself more competitive. Midsize firms also exist (by midsize I mean 20-40 lawyers) and some of them do hire people out of school. That doesn't mean you will definitely end up working there, but you have a chance. And more importantly, you still have time to better your chances. Government is really tough. If you have a specific agency in mind, try to work there this summer. Its almost impossible to get anything unless you've shown a real interest in government work.

Its not overly optimistic to say that you have a very very good chance to be gainfully employed at a good legal job after law school. Talking about falling into the abyss is popular talk ITE, and in many cases its absolutely justified. If you were a TTT grad at median, I'd say drop out. However, especially if your loans aren't too bad, you still have a lot of options. The worst thing you can do is become overwhelmed with self pity and helplessness, and it doesn't seem like you're doing that (which is great). Just take the initiative and make yourself a more attractive applicant, and you have a great shot. The SEC internship is by no means a guarantee of a job, but it looks good if you want to do securities work. So if you can't get anything else, go for it. Good luck.

Anonymous User
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:50 pm

from the anon poster three posts up, to the poster above this post and to LawIdiot86: I appreciate your honesty. Seriously, thank you for the input/thoughts/experiences.

LawIdiot86
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby LawIdiot86 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:so you don't fall into the abyss of being last year's fad


Apparently you're trying to be the law school version of shakespeare

Yes, nothing is guaranteed and it sucks you didn't get a 2L SA even though you had a shot (I'm in the same position, similar stats, got a bunch of interviews but nothing worked out). You still have options.

Get your grades up a bit, write a note, and you're definitely competitive for a flyover district court clerkship or an SSC. If you take a bankruptcy class and do well or even try working at a firm that does a lot of bankruptcy work, you should definitely be competitive for a bankruptcy clerkship as well. As for 3L OCI... it exists. Its damn hard to get anything, especially if you don't have a 2L SA. You shouldn't count on it by any means, but there are offers made. You should be doing everything you can to make yourself more competitive. Midsize firms also exist (by midsize I mean 20-40 lawyers) and some of them do hire people out of school. That doesn't mean you will definitely end up working there, but you have a chance. And more importantly, you still have time to better your chances. Government is really tough. If you have a specific agency in mind, try to work there this summer. Its almost impossible to get anything unless you've shown a real interest in government work.

Its not overly optimistic to say that you have a very very good chance to be gainfully employed at a good legal job after law school. Talking about falling into the abyss is popular talk ITE, and in many cases its absolutely justified. If you were a TTT grad at median, I'd say drop out. However, especially if your loans aren't too bad, you still have a lot of options. The worst thing you can do is become overwhelmed with self pity and helplessness, and it doesn't seem like you're doing that (which is great). Just take the initiative and make yourself a more attractive applicant, and you have a great shot. The SEC internship is by no means a guarantee of a job, but it looks good if you want to do securities work. So if you can't get anything else, go for it. Good luck.


I got a job. It's a long long story and it involved doing absolutely absurd things; I kicked in an interviewer's door, had a 5am interview, was about to drop out of law school on a week's notice for a job, and was about to go to an active warzone for a job, but I got a job. What I do know is that it wasn't the SEC internship that did it for me, because if it really was a mark of quality, my success rate would've been better than 3/96. Also midsize firms shockingly don't see the SEC as a huge deal because they rarely get involved in SEC matters. If you have your heart set on doing securities work and expect to end up in a 30 lawyer shop, the state finance or banking or securities agency is a much better route.

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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:37 am

Anyone have advice on how to eventually get a job with the SEC in their enforcement or compliance inspection division?
Do they hire anyone directly from school (above posts suggest no..) If not, does it matter where a person starts (midlaw vs biglaw etc)?

thanks

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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:21 pm

Anyone have advice on how to eventually get a job with the SEC in their enforcement or compliance inspection division . . . does it matter where a person starts (midlaw vs biglaw etc)?


The conversations I had suggest competition is intense. I doubt there's a magic formula but when you have tons of securities lawyers at the largest firms, only a fraction of whom will ever make partner, many of them are going to apply to the SEC.

LawIdiot86
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby LawIdiot86 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anyone have advice on how to eventually get a job with the SEC in their enforcement or compliance inspection division . . . does it matter where a person starts (midlaw vs biglaw etc)?


The conversations I had suggest competition is intense. I doubt there's a magic formula but when you have tons of securities lawyers at the largest firms, only a fraction of whom will ever make partner, many of them are going to apply to the SEC.


I recently spoke with some people at the SEC. They don't hire directly from law school. Even in 2009 when they still had AC, they didn't hire into enforcement from law school because of the competition for that (they usually hired into CorpFin and OCIE because those are the divisions that throw off low level work). They would love to hire entry level and occasionally hire LL.M graduates who had prior work experience, but even then it's like 1 or 2 a year. Biglaw seems preferred, only because big firms tend to dominate the complex SEC work. Midlaw would probably work for something like investment management or OCIE because those divisions service a broader market of participants. I gather it is easier to get OCIE than enforcement and probably working in a securities compliance/enforcement or white-collar/investigations practice group would be the best route into OCIE. FINRA/NFA/ISDA would probably lead to a good transition to OCIE.

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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:11 am

Even in 2009 when they still had AC, they didn't hire into enforcement from law school because of the competition for that (they usually hired into CorpFin and OCIE because those are the divisions that throw off low level work). They would love to hire entry level and occasionally hire LL.M graduates who had prior work experience, but even then it's like 1 or 2 a year. Biglaw seems preferred, only because big firms tend to dominate the complex SEC work. Midlaw would probably work for something like investment management or OCIE because those divisions service a broader market of participants.


based on that, is it likely that a 2L internship in CorpFin is probably not helpful for getting a midlaw job because midlaw doesn't deal with enough clients that deal with IPOs/etc?

If that's true, having a 2L internship there is pretty worthless for getting any firm job if you didn't already have the grades for biglaw.

edit:
midsize firms shockingly don't see the SEC as a huge deal because they rarely get involved in SEC matters.

^^never mind, that answers my question.

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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:05 pm

Any thoughts on the SEC Office of International Affairs? Seeing absolutely zero mention of it in forum history as compared to Enforcement and Corp Fin leads me to believe that it's not well-known and perhaps inferior to those two for someone who still might hope to get some kind of firm job after graduation, right? Even though I'm more interested in the subject matter? According to http://www.sec.gov/jobs/interns-divisionssnapshot.pdf, OIA takes 2 college interns too, which would seem to confirm this.

LawIdiot86
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Re: SEC 2L Summer Honors 2013

Postby LawIdiot86 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any thoughts on the SEC Office of International Affairs? Seeing absolutely zero mention of it in forum history as compared to Enforcement and Corp Fin leads me to believe that it's not well-known and perhaps inferior to those two for someone who still might hope to get some kind of firm job after graduation, right? Even though I'm more interested in the subject matter? According to http://www.sec.gov/jobs/interns-divisionssnapshot.pdf, OIA takes 2 college interns too, which would seem to confirm this.

Many federal agencies have an international affairs office, along with a suite of other generic offices like women and minority inclusion/civil rights, financial management, inspector general, etc. These offices usually do not practice the substantive law of the agency. International affairs offices do things like training regulators in other countries, coordinating regulatory meetings, etc. They don't usually do things firms do, so I don't think it would lead to a firm job, even in a firm's international law group.




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