Lying about landing big law?

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:36 pm

kingofdara wrote:It's a sad thing to lie about, especially since it's so easy to figure out. Is he planning on continuing the charade through the summer?



You people are harsh.

It might be sad to lie about a job offer, but has is this adversely effecting any of you? If I say I have an offer from firm X and you are waiting to hear back from firm X, all it might do is cause you to question your chances momentarily. It doesn't actually take away a job offer. Let him have the delusion, it's all he has at this point.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
kingofdara wrote:It's a sad thing to lie about, especially since it's so easy to figure out. Is he planning on continuing the charade through the summer?



You people are harsh.

It might be sad to lie about a job offer, but has is this adversely effecting any of you? If I say I have an offer from firm X and you are waiting to hear back from firm X, all it might do is cause you to question your chances momentarily. It doesn't actually take away a job offer. Let him have the delusion, it's all he has at this point.


Harsh? It's not harsh to say it's a sad thing when you feel pressure to lie about having a job when you do not. Also, newsflash, lying doesn't sit well within the legal profession.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:45 pm

I am still waiting on a few callbacks, but I basically struck out. I find it kind of sad what your friend is doing however. I have been open about it when people have asked me, partially because I consider them my friends, I want to also consider them as resources, and because I do not feel inferior because I cannot claim a biglaw job. It also helps that my grades were not bad, at least psychologically that helps. Everyone has been extremely helpful, some of them even offering to talk to relatives about it.

On the other hand, I can understand your friend a little bit. A lot of people, that I am not even close friends with, tend to be very nosey. I came across a person that I do not even know well, and considering their crying after grades/exams, they did not do too well, yet the first thing this person asked me is where I am next year and how they are choosing between a few firms. I told them I am not sure, and deflected conversation, but certainly I would not like telling them I struck out. It is the most annoying thing when people from school that you do not know well make that their main question. At least they can probe about it without being direct.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby kingofdara » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:46 pm

Oops, that reply was me. Hit anon by accident.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby HeavenWood » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
kingofdara wrote:It's a sad thing to lie about, especially since it's so easy to figure out. Is he planning on continuing the charade through the summer?



You people are harsh.

It might be sad to lie about a job offer, but has is this adversely effecting any of you? If I say I have an offer from firm X and you are waiting to hear back from firm X, all it might do is cause you to question your chances momentarily. It doesn't actually take away a job offer. Let him have the delusion, it's all he has at this point.

The issue isn't that it adversely affects other people. It's just very sad and very unhealthy. Obviously I'm not going to pour salt into someone's wound I know is lying (unless they were being an absolute dick about it). Also, the anon abuse in this thread is incredible.
Last edited by HeavenWood on Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:02 pm

IAFG wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:He has a long life ahead of him if he doesn't mature.

Having read this board since its inception, I have always been amused as the percentage of LSAT scores reported here relative to the percentage of test takers who score in the 170s.

I'm not at all surprised that a site made up almost entirely of T20 admits has a ton of 17Xs floating around. It would be weirder if 17Xs were rare here.


Actually that is a really good point!

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:38 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
kingofdara wrote:It's a sad thing to lie about, especially since it's so easy to figure out. Is he planning on continuing the charade through the summer?



You people are harsh.

It might be sad to lie about a job offer, but has is this adversely effecting any of you? If I say I have an offer from firm X and you are waiting to hear back from firm X, all it might do is cause you to question your chances momentarily. It doesn't actually take away a job offer. Let him have the delusion, it's all he has at this point.

The issue isn't that it adversely affects other people. It's just very sad and very unhealthy. Obviously I'm not going to pour salt into someone's wound I know is lying (unless they were being an absolute dick about it). Also, the anon abuse in this thread is incredible.


Actually, I can completely understand why someone would lie about this. I don't have an offer and I'm not ashamed about it. But I told a friend I was still looking about a month ago and since then she's distanced herself from me. Since then, I try to avoid small talk about jobs since you don't know how other people will react. Will people act weird around you if they know? Why take the risk.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby HeavenWood » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
kingofdara wrote:It's a sad thing to lie about, especially since it's so easy to figure out. Is he planning on continuing the charade through the summer?



You people are harsh.

It might be sad to lie about a job offer, but has is this adversely effecting any of you? If I say I have an offer from firm X and you are waiting to hear back from firm X, all it might do is cause you to question your chances momentarily. It doesn't actually take away a job offer. Let him have the delusion, it's all he has at this point.

The issue isn't that it adversely affects other people. It's just very sad and very unhealthy. Obviously I'm not going to pour salt into someone's wound I know is lying (unless they were being an absolute dick about it). Also, the anon abuse in this thread is incredible.


Actually, I can completely understand why someone would lie about this. I don't have an offer and I'm not ashamed about it. But I told a friend I was still looking about a month ago and since then she's distanced herself from me. Since then, I try to avoid small talk about jobs since you don't know how other people will react. Will people act weird around you if they know? Why take the risk.

Your friend's a cunt, although regardless of her reaction, jobs are generally way too touchy a subject to make for good "small talk."

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am still waiting on a few callbacks, but I basically struck out. I find it kind of sad what your friend is doing however. I have been open about it when people have asked me, partially because I consider them my friends, I want to also consider them as resources, and because I do not feel inferior because I cannot claim a biglaw job. It also helps that my grades were not bad, at least psychologically that helps. Everyone has been extremely helpful, some of them even offering to talk to relatives about it.


My grades were trash and I think thats why I've taken the strikeout so well. I was also one of those "I'll only do biglaw for a couple of years and then do what I want to do" types, now it looks like I'll just get to do what I wanted to (PI, fingers crossed).

Law school does make you think about stuff different though. I almost didn't go to OCI because I didn't want people to think I was a liar when I say that I really just wanted PI anyways. Even if its really what you want to do it seems crazy to me to rule out opportunities before you even have them (or in my case have them ruled out for you). Anyways the PI group thinks I'm a poser haha.

And to OP: At least your friend isn't doing the "I was going to to PI anyways, you guys are all sellouts" schtick like I am haha

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby KidStuddi » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:18 pm

HeavenWood wrote:Your friend's a cunt, although regardless of her reaction, jobs are generally way too touchy a subject to make for good "small talk."


Yes, the friend's reaction makes them a cunt, but what planet are you from where work isn't an acceptable topic for small talk? Work is like the second or third thing you ask someone when you meet them. After "What's your name" and "Where are you from," you ask people what they do / where they work.
Not to mention you can't go 2 feet in law school without someone screaming at you to "network." How can you network with people without finding out what they're going to be doing?
It might be embarrassing if you don't have a good answer, but it's definitely not a faux pas to ask.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby IAFG » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:23 pm

KidStuddi wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:Your friend's a cunt, although regardless of her reaction, jobs are generally way too touchy a subject to make for good "small talk."


Yes, the friend's reaction makes them a cunt, but what planet are you from where work isn't an acceptable topic for small talk? Work is like the second or third thing you ask someone when you meet them. After "What's your name" and "Where are you from," you ask people what they do / where they work.
Not to mention you can't go 2 feet in law school without someone screaming at you to "network." How can you network with people without finding out what they're going to be doing?
It might be embarrassing if you don't have a good answer, but it's definitely not a faux pas to ask.

No it is not a faux pas to ask what someone does over casual conversation. But it's absolutely a faux pas to ask where someone will be this summer unless you somehow know for sure they didn't strike out. I would have thought this wasn't even a particularly contentious point, but I guess there is always an asshole.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:25 pm

KidStuddi wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:Your friend's a cunt, although regardless of her reaction, jobs are generally way too touchy a subject to make for good "small talk."


Yes, the friend's reaction makes them a cunt, but what planet are you from where work isn't an acceptable topic for small talk? Work is like the second or third thing you ask someone when you meet them. After "What's your name" and "Where are you from," you ask people what they do / where they work.
Not to mention you can't go 2 feet in law school without someone screaming at you to "network." How can you network with people without finding out what they're going to be doing?
It might be embarrassing if you don't have a good answer, but it's definitely not a faux pas to ask.


You are so wrong on this... there is a large difference between "networking," going to bar meetings etc... and asking a classmate that you have no idea what they are doing next summer, hey where are you going to be next summer?
Past January, maybe, but not before.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby IAFG » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:27 pm

KidStuddi wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:Your friend's a cunt, although regardless of her reaction, jobs are generally way too touchy a subject to make for good "small talk."


Yes, the friend's reaction makes them a cunt, but what planet are you from where work isn't an acceptable topic for small talk? Work is like the second or third thing you ask someone when you meet them. After "What's your name" and "Where are you from," you ask people what they do / where they work.
Not to mention you can't go 2 feet in law school without someone screaming at you to "network." How can you network with people without finding out what they're going to be doing?
It might be embarrassing if you don't have a good answer, but it's definitely not a faux pas to ask.


Huge social faux pas.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby Bronte » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:27 pm

KidStuddi wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:Your friend's a cunt, although regardless of her reaction, jobs are generally way too touchy a subject to make for good "small talk."


Yes, the friend's reaction makes them a cunt, but what planet are you from where work isn't an acceptable topic for small talk? Work is like the second or third thing you ask someone when you meet them. After "What's your name" and "Where are you from," you ask people what they do / where they work.
Not to mention you can't go 2 feet in law school without someone screaming at you to "network." How can you network with people without finding out what they're going to be doing?
It might be embarrassing if you don't have a good answer, but it's definitely not a faux pas to ask.


To be fair, it's possible that jobs are small talk outside law school and a touchy subject inside law school. It's also possible that it's not good small talk in either context: I read somewhere or heard someone say that well-mannered people don't ask the question "what do you do?" or "where do you work?" (I regularly ask this question.)

In any event, I agree that in practice people talk about jobs all the time, in and outside of law school. My classmates regularly ask me where I worked last summer. Less common is "are you going back?" But people still ask it. Obviously it also depends on how close you are to the person.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby rad lulz » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:33 pm

TTH wrote:I hate that we all live in this environment that makes people feel like they have to feel ashamed and lie about shit that's not in their control.

I don't rush to talk about it, but when it comes up, I don't shirk from talking about getting no-offered. For one, it wasn't because of anything I did; second, it's a lot like taking a shit: it's not exactly a pleasant experience, but I always feel better afterward.

I try not to talk about it with most people, even some people I'm close to. I'm not some fucking curiosity and I don't take questions. Talking about it does not make me feel better.

I can see where that lying dude is coming from, but lying tends to come around and bite you in the ass, so ultimately not a good idea obviously.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby KidStuddi » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:38 pm

IAFG wrote:
KidStuddi wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:Your friend's a cunt, although regardless of her reaction, jobs are generally way too touchy a subject to make for good "small talk."


Yes, the friend's reaction makes them a cunt, but what planet are you from where work isn't an acceptable topic for small talk? Work is like the second or third thing you ask someone when you meet them. After "What's your name" and "Where are you from," you ask people what they do / where they work.
Not to mention you can't go 2 feet in law school without someone screaming at you to "network." How can you network with people without finding out what they're going to be doing?
It might be embarrassing if you don't have a good answer, but it's definitely not a faux pas to ask.

No it is not a faux pas to ask what someone does over casual conversation. But it's absolutely a faux pas to ask where someone will be this summer unless you somehow know for sure they didn't strike out. I would have thought this wasn't even a particularly contentious point, but I guess there is always an asshole.


What? How would you ever know for sure without asking someone? Gossiping about people behind their back isn't really my style and seems far less socially acceptable than asking someone what their career plans are.
It seems awfully pretentious to assume that everyone who didn't land BigLaw is going to be embarrassed to talk about what they're doing 2L summer / what their career plans are. But I guess there are always assholes who'd rather pity everyone who doesn't make as much money as they do.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby rad lulz » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:41 pm

KidStuddi wrote:
IAFG wrote:
KidStuddi wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:Your friend's a cunt, although regardless of her reaction, jobs are generally way too touchy a subject to make for good "small talk."


Yes, the friend's reaction makes them a cunt, but what planet are you from where work isn't an acceptable topic for small talk? Work is like the second or third thing you ask someone when you meet them. After "What's your name" and "Where are you from," you ask people what they do / where they work.
Not to mention you can't go 2 feet in law school without someone screaming at you to "network." How can you network with people without finding out what they're going to be doing?
It might be embarrassing if you don't have a good answer, but it's definitely not a faux pas to ask.

No it is not a faux pas to ask what someone does over casual conversation. But it's absolutely a faux pas to ask where someone will be this summer unless you somehow know for sure they didn't strike out. I would have thought this wasn't even a particularly contentious point, but I guess there is always an asshole.


What? How would you ever know for sure without asking someone? Gossiping about people behind their back isn't really my style and seems far less socially acceptable than asking someone what their career plans are.
It seems awfully pretentious to assume that everyone who didn't land BigLaw is going to be embarrassed to talk about what they're doing 2L summer / what their career plans are. But I guess there are always assholes who'd rather pity everyone who doesn't make as much money as they do.

Or, you know, you could mind your own business about the subject entirely.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby KidStuddi » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:44 pm

rad lulz wrote:
KidStuddi wrote:What? How would you ever know for sure without asking someone? Gossiping about people behind their back isn't really my style and seems far less socially acceptable than asking someone what their career plans are.
It seems awfully pretentious to assume that everyone who didn't land BigLaw is going to be embarrassed to talk about what they're doing 2L summer / what their career plans are. But I guess there are always assholes who'd rather pity everyone who doesn't make as much money as they do.

Or, you know, you could mind your own business about the subject entirely.


Sounds like a good way to network. Keep your head down and never give a fuck about anyone else.
And all those assholes who carry around business cards telling people where they work? Who the fuck do they think they are broadcasting it to the world like anyone cares?

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby IAFG » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:46 pm

KidStuddi wrote:
IAFG wrote:
KidStuddi wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:Your friend's a cunt, although regardless of her reaction, jobs are generally way too touchy a subject to make for good "small talk."


Yes, the friend's reaction makes them a cunt, but what planet are you from where work isn't an acceptable topic for small talk? Work is like the second or third thing you ask someone when you meet them. After "What's your name" and "Where are you from," you ask people what they do / where they work.
Not to mention you can't go 2 feet in law school without someone screaming at you to "network." How can you network with people without finding out what they're going to be doing?
It might be embarrassing if you don't have a good answer, but it's definitely not a faux pas to ask.

No it is not a faux pas to ask what someone does over casual conversation. But it's absolutely a faux pas to ask where someone will be this summer unless you somehow know for sure they didn't strike out. I would have thought this wasn't even a particularly contentious point, but I guess there is always an asshole.


What? How would you ever know for sure without asking someone? Gossiping about people behind their back isn't really my style and seems far less socially acceptable than asking someone what their career plans are.
It seems awfully pretentious to assume that everyone who didn't land BigLaw is going to be embarrassed to talk about what they're doing 2L summer / what their career plans are. But I guess there are always assholes who'd rather pity everyone who doesn't make as much money as they do.

Well, I knew for sure my friend didn't strike out because I knew she had at least one offer. Fine to ask where she ended up.

The rest of your post was beyond stupid. I must pity people who make less than me? Why, because I have enough grace not to corner them about what might have been a failed attempt to get a certain kind of job? It doesn't really matter what I think about asking though. I don't decide what the faux pas are, convention does, and ignoring it because you have some idiotic rationalization is what makes you an asshole.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby rad lulz » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:50 pm

KidStuddi wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
KidStuddi wrote:What? How would you ever know for sure without asking someone? Gossiping about people behind their back isn't really my style and seems far less socially acceptable than asking someone what their career plans are.
It seems awfully pretentious to assume that everyone who didn't land BigLaw is going to be embarrassed to talk about what they're doing 2L summer / what their career plans are. But I guess there are always assholes who'd rather pity everyone who doesn't make as much money as they do.

Or, you know, you could mind your own business about the subject entirely.


Sounds like a good way to network. Keep your head down and never give a fuck about anyone else.

IAFG wrote:It doesn't really matter what I think about asking though. I don't decide what the faux pas are, convention does, and ignoring it because you have some idiotic rationalization is what makes you an asshole.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby KidStuddi » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:00 pm

IAFG wrote:
KidStuddi wrote:What? How would you ever know for sure without asking someone? Gossiping about people behind their back isn't really my style and seems far less socially acceptable than asking someone what their career plans are.
It seems awfully pretentious to assume that everyone who didn't land BigLaw is going to be embarrassed to talk about what they're doing 2L summer / what their career plans are. But I guess there are always assholes who'd rather pity everyone who doesn't make as much money as they do.

Well, I knew for sure my friend didn't strike out because I knew she had at least one offer. Fine to ask where she ended up.

The rest of your post was beyond stupid. I must pity people who make less than me? Why, because I have enough grace not to corner them about what might have been a failed attempt to get a certain kind of job? It doesn't really matter what I think about asking though. I don't decide what the faux pas are, convention does, and ignoring it because you have some idiotic rationalization is what makes you an asshole.


I'm not ignoring a social convention, I'm telling you what the social convention is. People talk about where they work and what they do.
I have been asked the question by at least two dozen people this fall. Including three of my professors from 1L. Are they all assholes for showing a polite interest in what I'll be doing with my life?
This is an absurd conversation.

Edit: I called you pretentious because you think you're doing them a favor by not asking them the question. And you clearly affirmed that. You actually think you're showing "grace" by not asking them a question because you're presuming they're going to be embarrassed by the answer. This is the logical equivalent of not asking someone where they're going to law school because you're not 100% sure they got into a t14 school. Believe it or not, this isn't a source of shame for everybody.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:11 pm

KidStuddi wrote:
IAFG wrote:
KidStuddi wrote:What? How would you ever know for sure without asking someone? Gossiping about people behind their back isn't really my style and seems far less socially acceptable than asking someone what their career plans are.
It seems awfully pretentious to assume that everyone who didn't land BigLaw is going to be embarrassed to talk about what they're doing 2L summer / what their career plans are. But I guess there are always assholes who'd rather pity everyone who doesn't make as much money as they do.

Well, I knew for sure my friend didn't strike out because I knew she had at least one offer. Fine to ask where she ended up.

The rest of your post was beyond stupid. I must pity people who make less than me? Why, because I have enough grace not to corner them about what might have been a failed attempt to get a certain kind of job? It doesn't really matter what I think about asking though. I don't decide what the faux pas are, convention does, and ignoring it because you have some idiotic rationalization is what makes you an asshole.


I'm not ignoring a social convention, I'm telling you what the social convention is. People talk about where they work and what they do.
I have been asked the question by at least two dozen people this fall. Including three of my professors from 1L. Are they all assholes for showing a polite interest in what I'll be doing with my life?
This is an absurd conversation.

Edit: I called you pretentious because you think you're doing them a favor by not asking them the question. And you clearly affirmed that. You actually think you're showing "grace" by not asking them a question because you're presuming they're going to be embarrassed by the answer. This is the logical equivalent of not asking someone where they're going to law school because you're not 100% sure they got into a t14 school. Believe it or not, this isn't a source of shame for everybody.


Do you also ask your classmates what their grades were? Cause that is a polite interest in their future career potential. Not asking them would be akin to showing them grace cause you are assuming they did not do too well.

As someone who struck out, it is absolutely not a source of shame. I have reached out for advice to many older students, and students in my year who I consider close friends. But, I get annoyed when a person who I do not know too well, makes that their first question... and they do it quite often.

Striking out is often an unfortunate turn of events for a student. It is worse to strike out, than to be at the very bottom of the class and get a job. There are students who get depressed about it... so yes, it is a territory that you must be careful around. In the same way that you must be careful with grades during 1L.

PS: your point about not asking which law school to go to because you know they are not at a t-14 also makes 0 sense imho. A student chooses to go to BC, Brooklyn, Temple, Hastings, Cooley or whatever non-T14 school out there. That is something that they can be proud of. They have the choice of not attending school all together. I did not choose to strike out. Strike out is not a second option like a lower ranked school might be to some people.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby Bronte » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:15 pm

I would agree that especially right after OCI it's probably better not to ask people where they'll be over the summer unless you know that they have something. But I think it's going a little too hard on KidStuddi to say that is an egregious faux pas or akin to asking someone about grades. In my experience, people do regularly ask this question.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby de5igual » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:17 pm

A professor asking is very different from another student asking. Again, it depends on how close you are to the other student. In my experience (as I'm sure it is with others), most law students are assholes, and pry to gossip. This isn't called networking, it's called being a nosy prick.

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Re: Lying about landing big law?

Postby KidStuddi » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Do you also ask your classmates what their grades were? Cause that is a polite interest in their future career potential. Not asking them would be akin to showing them grace cause you are assuming they did not do too well.

As someone who struck out, it is absolutely not a source of shame. I have reached out for advice to many older students, and students in my year who I consider close friends. But, I get annoyed when a person who I do not know too well, makes that their first question... and they do it quite often.

Striking out is often an unfortunate turn of events for a student. It is worse to strike out, than to be at the very bottom of the class and get a job. There are students who get depressed about it... so yes, it is a territory that you must be careful around. In the same way that you must be careful with grades during 1L.


I don't think your analogy is apt. First of all, we're talking about social conventions here. Grades are much more personal than where you work or just about anything else. Even on the most public stage imaginable we often don't see grades. Have you ever seen Obama's or Romney's transcripts from HLS? They're running for president and we've seen their tax returns (well some of them) and birth certificates before we've gotten a peek at their grades. That's not even close to being as socially acceptable as talking about work experience.

Just look how many splatter their job information across LinkedIn and other professional sites.

Yes, striking out may suck if you're BigLaw or bust, but it doesn't change the fact that asking people about their career plans remains a perfectly acceptable thing to do in polite conversation.

I have a friend who's from the south and is self-conscious about her accent. She gets furious when people ask her where she's from. Does that make them assholes for asking a socially acceptable question?

You guys remind me of egg-shell plaintiffs from torts.




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