Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

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Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:28 pm

Top 10% at a T14 + LR + from a large secondary market. I got 6 CB's out of OCI but struck out--partly because of where I interviewed (mostly very selective, small class sizes) and partly because I suck at interviewing. I've been working on the interviewing everyday and, according to those who've been helping me, have made decent strides. I mass-mailed everything in my hometown in mid-August and everything else in the state in late August, but received only 1 CB (a ding) out of those efforts. Since then I've spammed all the biglaw places in my school's market in addition to the stuff on Symplicity, reached out to a prof, career services, etc. What do I do now?? I have no ties to anywhere but my school market (also a large secondary market) and my hometown, and I have already exhausted mailing targets in both regions. I'm planning on buckling down and trying to get into top 5% for clerkship apps, but outside of that, am I fucked? What next steps should I take if the goal is 2L SA + biglaw after graduation?

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby anon168 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:Top 10% at a T14 + LR + from a large secondary market. I got 6 CB's out of OCI but struck out--partly because of where I interviewed (mostly very selective, small class sizes) and partly because I suck at interviewing. I've been working on the interviewing everyday and, according to those who've been helping me, have made decent strides. I mass-mailed everything in my hometown in mid-August and everything else in the state in late August, but received only 1 CB (a ding) out of those efforts. Since then I've spammed all the biglaw places in my school's market in addition to the stuff on Symplicity, reached out to a prof, career services, etc. What do I do now?? I have no ties to anywhere but my school market (also a large secondary market) and my hometown, and I have already exhausted mailing targets in both regions. I'm planning on buckling down and trying to get into top 5% for clerkship apps, but outside of that, am I fucked? What next steps should I take if the goal is 2L SA + biglaw after graduation?


I would ditch the 2L SA goal. Try to land an externship, or some internship with a PI organization (e.g. Public Counsel, or a federal or state agency).

Then crank it up and get try to kick ass in law school to get your grades as high as you can as a 2L/3L. Apply for clerkships (state and federal) and then try it again at OCI.

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:14 am

you have the grades to have options next year if you kill it again.

i wish i had your stats...

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TTH
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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby TTH » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:25 am

Continue to do well at school, get on the board of your LR, find something to do next summer that helps you build a narrative for what type of work you want to do, and mass mail as 3L/apply for clerkships. Might not feel like it now, but you're going to be fine.

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby somewhatwayward » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:44 am

I am pretty surprised you struck out. I mean, bad interviewing can cause strike outs but *usually* people with good enough grades + LR have a lot of slack wrt interviewing skills, especially at S&C....did you screen with them? However, I am guessing from your post that you interviewed only with DC firms. Did you either do OCI screeners with NYC firms or mass mail NYC firms? NYC should be everyone's safety net. I don't think you should necessarily give up on the 2L SA although you need to be pursuing other avenues as well. Have you called firms you mass mailed who have big classes and reiterated your interest? Have you been officially rejected by the 6 CBs?

Getting your grades up and getting published (if not in your LR, send it to all other journals) and on the e-board of your LR is TCR here, regardless. That way you can nab a federal clerkship and get another shot at a firm job if that is what you really want. What do you really want anyway?

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:39 am

1. Go to your career office.
2. Ask for list of alums in markets you would work in.
3. Email those alums at firms you want to work at asking for help/chance to meet/speak including your resume as "reference".
4. Meet with them.
5. Keep doing this until one of them helps you land a job.

I did this for both 1L and 2L summer jobs. Got multiple offers both times with barely above median grades at a T40.

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:32 am

Thanks for the advice guys. Going to pick some alums from markets I haven't tapped yet and take a swing. Also going to massmail NY firms if there's some agreement that it's not too late (although I'm guessing it is...ugh).

Anonymous User wrote:1. Go to your career office.
2. Ask for list of alums in markets you would work in.
3. Email those alums at firms you want to work at asking for help/chance to meet/speak including your resume as "reference".
4. Meet with them.
5. Keep doing this until one of them helps you land a job.

I did this for both 1L and 2L summer jobs. Got multiple offers both times with barely above median grades at a T40.


Resume only, or resume + transcript? I have one award from a class on the resume, but LR is write-on at the school and there's nothing else to indicate my grades on the resume. For alums in markets far away, do I just ask if they have time to chat on the phone? I think right now I sound a lot better on the phone, anyways.

somewhatwayward wrote:I am pretty surprised you struck out. I mean, bad interviewing can cause strike outs but *usually* people with good enough grades + LR have a lot of slack wrt interviewing skills, especially at S&C....did you screen with them? However, I am guessing from your post that you interviewed only with DC firms. Did you either do OCI screeners with NYC firms or mass mail NYC firms? NYC should be everyone's safety net. I don't think you should necessarily give up on the 2L SA although you need to be pursuing other avenues as well. Have you called firms you mass mailed who have big classes and reiterated your interest? Have you been officially rejected by the 6 CBs?

Getting your grades up and getting published (if not in your LR, send it to all other journals) and on the e-board of your LR is TCR here, regardless. That way you can nab a federal clerkship and get another shot at a firm job if that is what you really want. What do you really want anyway?


Already have concrete rejections from all the CB's. Didn't bid DC at all--and actually, my GPA-peer classmates who bid DC killed it. I did an informal interview w/S&C in a hospitality suite, thought I killed it, had the grades, etc., and still got dinged. My only guess is the dude I talked to simply didn't bother to pass my stuff along or secretly loathed me. Had 4 NY screeners-->1CB that didn't turn into an offer. Thought I hit it off well with most of the people I met, so I dunno what happened. Didn't think to mass mail NY because, by the time I realized I was in trouble (early September), I thought it was already too late...was I wrong?? If it wasn't too late then, is it still not too late??

In the long run, I'm not really sure what I want. I know I want biglaw to pay off my loans. I'm halfway sold on clerking, but I hated externing (part of that was not getting paid for doing 100% unappreciated yet necessary work). I have the idea in my head that I'll either stay in big law till I'm 45 then go teach a practice-oriented course or stay in 3-6 years and lateral to a more lifestyle-oriented firm or government. Still dunno whether I want litigation or tax.

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Sheffield » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:02 am

What you just explained is absolutely mystifying. Top 10% at a T14 + LR + from a large secondary market is as close to automatic as it gets. October-November are still in play, given that a number of firms are dealing with offers that have been declined. A week ago I heard that good paying Delaware firms are still looking, if that helps.

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby keg411 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:51 am

With your stats, it's probably worth it to just do one big resume bomb in every market where you'd be willing to work (including the big ones: NYC/DC/Chicago/SF/LA/Boston/etc.). Yes, a lot of classes will be filled, but if people are going to interview someone, it will be you. Also, now that OCI is over, definitely stick your GPA and "rank" on your resume and title your e-mails something like "Top 10% + LR at XXX Seeks Summer Associate Position for 2013". Instead of writing a cover letter, write a brief e-mail and throw in one or two lines about the firm/market (white lie a bit if you have to). I really think with your numbers, some firm looking for another person will bite.

Additionally, it sounds like you're not in love with the idea of BigLaw -- have you talked to career services about their gov't and public interest resources? If you think you'd rather go that route, then skip the resume bomb and focus on what you actually want to do with your law degree. Either way, that's also a good "next step". Otherwise, it sounds like you're on your way since you have competitive clerkship numbers and LR.

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the advice guys. Going to pick some alums from markets I haven't tapped yet and take a swing. Also going to massmail NY firms if there's some agreement that it's not too late (although I'm guessing it is...ugh).

Anonymous User wrote:1. Go to your career office.
2. Ask for list of alums in markets you would work in.
3. Email those alums at firms you want to work at asking for help/chance to meet/speak including your resume as "reference".
4. Meet with them.
5. Keep doing this until one of them helps you land a job.

I did this for both 1L and 2L summer jobs. Got multiple offers both times with barely above median grades at a T40.


Resume only, or resume + transcript? I have one award from a class on the resume, but LR is write-on at the school and there's nothing else to indicate my grades on the resume. For alums in markets far away, do I just ask if they have time to chat on the phone? I think right now I sound a lot better on the phone, anyways.

==

Absolutely only send resumes, no transcripts. You don't want to come off like you're only talking to them so they can help you get a job. (even though you are) Put your grades on your resume like the other poster said. People are a lot more willing to bat for you after they talk to you and decide they like you. This is how the people with lower grades attending lower ranked schools than you are getting jobs so I think if you can do the same thing with your GPA/school prestige, you should be very successful. Good luck!

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:28 pm

+1 on the feeling I'm better on the phone thing. After my impressive record of striking out in person I've decided my body language either screams I hate you or I love you in an inappropriate way...maybe both?

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:37 pm

Mass-mail NYC/DC/Chicago/LA/SF/Boston wherever. I didn't really buckle down and get serious about mass-mailing until very late but there have been some bites (NYC, but that's what I've been focusing on all along). I have worse stats than you so you almost certainly look way better on paper, and some firms will almost definitely bite (many classes are filled, but some are not).

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Mass-mail NYC/DC/Chicago/LA/SF/Boston wherever. I didn't really buckle down and get serious about mass-mailing until very late but there have been some bites (NYC, but that's what I've been focusing on all along). I have worse stats than you so you almost certainly look way better on paper, and some firms will almost definitely bite (many classes are filled, but some are not).


Are you in NYC market? I have pretty good stats mailed the world (twice) and have only gotten a couple bites out of DC market which is my home market.

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:45 pm

i know for a fact several chicago, NY, and DC firms are still hiring. i haven't heard about as much action on the west coast, but i don't think all classes are filled yet, either.

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:i know for a fact several chicago, NY, and DC firms are still hiring. i haven't heard about as much action on the west coast, but i don't think all classes are filled yet, either.


I know sharing which firms are still hiring might be counter-productive, but it'd be really helpful if you could share. Thanks!

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:i know for a fact several chicago, NY, and DC firms are still hiring. i haven't heard about as much action on the west coast, but i don't think all classes are filled yet, either.

CCN. Median. Mass mailed every Chicago and NY firm. Have not gotten a single screener or CB.

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:21 pm

Mofo DC is hiring a summer for corporate and McDermott DC is looking for summers for Antitrust, energy, Health, and IP Lit.

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:27 pm

Since I am the one that asked for information, I'll share some:

Paul Hastings LA for IP
Perkins Coie OR
Patton Boggs all offices
Foley & Lardner multiple offices
Baker Hostetler IP

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:42 pm

Anyone has any idea what GPA Pattons Boggs requires. Their quick rejection particularly stung me after spending an hour building what I thought was a good narrative on the cover letter about wanting to work there.

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:44 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone has any idea what GPA Pattons Boggs requires. Their quick rejection particularly stung me after spending an hour building what I thought was a good narrative on the cover letter about wanting to work there.


At non HYS top 14's it's above the median--generally top 1/3.

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone has any idea what GPA Pattons Boggs requires. Their quick rejection particularly stung me after spending an hour building what I thought was a good narrative on the cover letter about wanting to work there.


I would ignore school policy....or put an "A" average.

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:56 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone has any idea what GPA Pattons Boggs requires. Their quick rejection particularly stung me after spending an hour building what I thought was a good narrative on the cover letter about wanting to work there.


At non HYS top 14's it's above the median--generally top 1/3.


Damn it, it was not the grades. They do a lot of work with a client that I had a special connection via my previous work experience. Did not mention that, but highlighted my experience with that client. I guess they did not like it.

OP: what you are saying sounds to me awkward and unnecessary. Firms do know/guess your rank from your GPA, no need to further clarify it. Law review also tells them it is pretty high. Do not worry about such things because they make you look desperate..., just mass mail NYC, DC and maybe SF. Also, do you have a particular legal interest. If so, create a cover letter specifically around that practice. This strategy got me two callbacks in market I had no ties... I simply saw on chambers the best practice in that state for the area of law I want to do and told them I want to work for you because of that kind of law.

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Re: Struck Out at OCI, No Mass Mail Returns--What Next?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:Since I am the one that asked for information, I'll share some:

Paul Hastings LA for IP
Perkins Coie OR
Patton Boggs all offices
Foley & Lardner multiple offices
Baker Hostetler IP

two more that i can add:
alston & bird in chicago/ny (i know a friend who got a screener recently)
morgan lewis multiple offices




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