Splitting summer 8/8 wks

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dood
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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby dood » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:You're right, I have been around longer, and I have seen it happen. I understand why from an outside perspective it would sound like you were doubling your shot at an offer, but that's not the case.


Not OP, but I'm planning to do something similar. I also have never heard of anyone getting double no-offered, but know of a few people who have received two offers. Could you elaborate on who you've seen receive a double no-offer and under what circumstances?


this might have been more prevalent in bad times when firms where looking for a reason to no-offer SAs. i split my summer between big and mid firm, got 2 offers, took the big firm, and the mid firm hiring partner said "i understand about the $, but we still cool, if u ever need a job, come talk to me". so yeah, my experience was great.

KidStuddi
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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby KidStuddi » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:06 pm

dood wrote:
KidStuddi wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You don't know anything about me. I'll go so far as to say that I found Officer Candidate School, United States Marine Corps to be less mentally stressful than my SA summer, and I graduated OCS with flying colors (OCS has a 50% failure rate).

You seem to be assuming that being an SA is similar to what it's like being a full-time attorney. You'll realize how wrong you are once you're an SA and work with actual biglaw attorneys. As IAFG pointed out, there is a difference between working full time and being on a 12 week interview, all the freaking time. I also worked in a demanding civilian, service-sector job before LS and knew I was going back to school. No problem maintaining top notch results.

Honestly, as stupid as this is going to sound, the closest comparison I can draw to the SA summer is watching my then-girlfriend (now wife) go through sorority rush back in undergrad.


I was working in law firms. I worked for and with BigLaw attorneys. I've seen how they live. I've seen SAs come and go. I've seen how they live.
I submit to you that if the pressure of remaining likable for 12 weeks is more stressful to you than dealing with complex matters that are worth millions if not billions of dollars to your clients, perhaps you have some sort of social anxiety disorder. Seriously.

I was given similar advice on here before OCI. (Don't schedule back-to-back callbacks! They're exhausting!) The idea that taking to people for 3-4 hours could be exhausting seemed ludicrous to me then and my experience completely validated that feeling. I have heard multiple people tell me that their SA was the most enjoyable sustained experience they had since summer camp. I firmly believe my experience will be similar. Making social connections is just not something that stresses me and before I came here I assumed that was how everyone was.


only 1 relevant question: have you done 2 SAs back to back? no? come talk to us when u have. i split 8 + 5 weeks between big law and mid law. it was hell. "FORCED fun" (dinners, events, etc) for 15 hours a day is so much harder than just going into your office and working for 10 hours.


2 SAs? No. 10 week 1L SA immediately followed by a PI internship that started in the summer and is still continuing until December? Yes.
No worse for the wear. Certainly wasn't "exhausted" after my SA.

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:07 pm

KidStuddi wrote:I was working in law firms. I worked for and with BigLaw attorneys. I've seen how they live. I've seen SAs come and go. I've seen how they live.
I submit to you that if the pressure of remaining likable for 12 weeks is more stressful to you than dealing with complex matters that are worth millions if not billions of dollars to your clients, perhaps you have some sort of social anxiety disorder. Seriously.

I was given similar advice on here before OCI. (Don't schedule back-to-back callbacks! They're exhausting!) The idea that taking to people for 3-4 hours could be exhausting seemed ludicrous to me then and my experience completely validated that feeling. I have heard multiple people tell me that their SA was the most enjoyable sustained experience they had since summer camp. I firmly believe my experience will be similar. Making social connections is just not something that stresses me and before I came here I assumed that was how everyone was.


MFE. Thanks for you psych diagnosis. How the hell did I ever get past all those military doctors?

Stop conflating issues. I said it was exhausting, the only connection I made to stress was that the stress contributes to the exhaustion. You do understand that there is a difference between exhaustion and stress, right? I only brought up a more stressful experience as you seem to be focusing on it.

Your arguments and projections deal with stress, when I focused on the exhaustion part.

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dood
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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby dood » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:10 pm

KidStuddi wrote:
dood wrote:
KidStuddi wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You don't know anything about me. I'll go so far as to say that I found Officer Candidate School, United States Marine Corps to be less mentally stressful than my SA summer, and I graduated OCS with flying colors (OCS has a 50% failure rate).

You seem to be assuming that being an SA is similar to what it's like being a full-time attorney. You'll realize how wrong you are once you're an SA and work with actual biglaw attorneys. As IAFG pointed out, there is a difference between working full time and being on a 12 week interview, all the freaking time. I also worked in a demanding civilian, service-sector job before LS and knew I was going back to school. No problem maintaining top notch results.

Honestly, as stupid as this is going to sound, the closest comparison I can draw to the SA summer is watching my then-girlfriend (now wife) go through sorority rush back in undergrad.


I was working in law firms. I worked for and with BigLaw attorneys. I've seen how they live. I've seen SAs come and go. I've seen how they live.
I submit to you that if the pressure of remaining likable for 12 weeks is more stressful to you than dealing with complex matters that are worth millions if not billions of dollars to your clients, perhaps you have some sort of social anxiety disorder. Seriously.

I was given similar advice on here before OCI. (Don't schedule back-to-back callbacks! They're exhausting!) The idea that taking to people for 3-4 hours could be exhausting seemed ludicrous to me then and my experience completely validated that feeling. I have heard multiple people tell me that their SA was the most enjoyable sustained experience they had since summer camp. I firmly believe my experience will be similar. Making social connections is just not something that stresses me and before I came here I assumed that was how everyone was.


only 1 relevant question: have you done 2 SAs back to back? no? come talk to us when u have. i split 8 + 5 weeks between big law and mid law. it was hell. "FORCED fun" (dinners, events, etc) for 15 hours a day is so much harder than just going into your office and working for 10 hours.


2 SAs? No. 10 week 1L SA immediately followed by a PI internship that started in the summer and is still continuing until December? Yes.
No worse for the wear. Certainly wasn't "exhausted" after my SA.


ok well then the only explanation must be u have a prescription to adderall.

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IAFG
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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby IAFG » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:10 pm

KidStuddi wrote:
dood wrote:
KidStuddi wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You don't know anything about me. I'll go so far as to say that I found Officer Candidate School, United States Marine Corps to be less mentally stressful than my SA summer, and I graduated OCS with flying colors (OCS has a 50% failure rate).

You seem to be assuming that being an SA is similar to what it's like being a full-time attorney. You'll realize how wrong you are once you're an SA and work with actual biglaw attorneys. As IAFG pointed out, there is a difference between working full time and being on a 12 week interview, all the freaking time. I also worked in a demanding civilian, service-sector job before LS and knew I was going back to school. No problem maintaining top notch results.

Honestly, as stupid as this is going to sound, the closest comparison I can draw to the SA summer is watching my then-girlfriend (now wife) go through sorority rush back in undergrad.


I was working in law firms. I worked for and with BigLaw attorneys. I've seen how they live. I've seen SAs come and go. I've seen how they live.
I submit to you that if the pressure of remaining likable for 12 weeks is more stressful to you than dealing with complex matters that are worth millions if not billions of dollars to your clients, perhaps you have some sort of social anxiety disorder. Seriously.

I was given similar advice on here before OCI. (Don't schedule back-to-back callbacks! They're exhausting!) The idea that taking to people for 3-4 hours could be exhausting seemed ludicrous to me then and my experience completely validated that feeling. I have heard multiple people tell me that their SA was the most enjoyable sustained experience they had since summer camp. I firmly believe my experience will be similar. Making social connections is just not something that stresses me and before I came here I assumed that was how everyone was.


only 1 relevant question: have you done 2 SAs back to back? no? come talk to us when u have. i split 8 + 5 weeks between big law and mid law. it was hell. "FORCED fun" (dinners, events, etc) for 15 hours a day is so much harder than just going into your office and working for 10 hours.


2 SAs? No. 10 week 1L SA immediately followed by a PI internship that started in the summer and is still continuing until December? Yes.
No worse for the wear. Certainly wasn't "exhausted" after my SA.

Unless you're OP, why are you making this thread about you and your special snowflake ism?

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:11 pm

IAFG wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:You're right, I have been around longer, and I have seen it happen. I understand why from an outside perspective it would sound like you were doubling your shot at an offer, but that's not the case.


Not OP, but I'm planning to do something similar. I also have never heard of anyone getting double no-offered, but know of a few people who have received two offers. Could you elaborate on who you've seen receive a double no-offer and under what circumstances?

It happened fairly frequently in the crash (as in, splitters were the first to get cut when some offers were getting revoked). If you're asking for a list of people and their sins, there were people and their sin was splitting.

But we're assuming markets that aren't traditional split-summer markets.


What would you say are "traditional" split-summer markets?

Edit: To be clear, I'm genuinely curious. Not trying to be a smart ass.

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby dood » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:You're right, I have been around longer, and I have seen it happen. I understand why from an outside perspective it would sound like you were doubling your shot at an offer, but that's not the case.


Not OP, but I'm planning to do something similar. I also have never heard of anyone getting double no-offered, but know of a few people who have received two offers. Could you elaborate on who you've seen receive a double no-offer and under what circumstances?

It happened fairly frequently in the crash (as in, splitters were the first to get cut when some offers were getting revoked). If you're asking for a list of people and their sins, there were people and their sin was splitting.

But we're assuming markets that aren't traditional split-summer markets.


What would you say are "traditional" split-summer markets?


NY and DC big firms tended to be ok pre shit economy, not sure how things are now. some "top" firms will absolutely not let u split. which was my case....so what i did was actually accept 1 entire summer from big law, then ask if i could join other mid law program 1/2 way through. and they were amenable to that. just call both firms and ask the nice HR ladies.

also, the nalp forms have a check box for whether split summers are allowed. but ive heard of some firms allowing, even when nalp says otherwise. so sometimes better just to have casual talk with HR.

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:19 pm

I haven't read all the responses, but I've read enough to know that everyone in here isn't exactly thinking clearly. The advice against splitting first of all only applies in major markets where splitting hasn't traditionally been explicitly encouraged by firms and second where firms have programs that span 10+ weeks in place. If a firm you've accepted an offer at has a 6-8 week programs, I think you'd be an idiot not to split if you can find another program of similar length that doesn't overlap.

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:22 pm

dood wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not OP, but I'm planning to do something similar. I also have never heard of anyone getting double no-offered, but know of a few people who have received two offers. Could you elaborate on who you've seen receive a double no-offer and under what circumstances?

It happened fairly frequently in the crash (as in, splitters were the first to get cut when some offers were getting revoked). If you're asking for a list of people and their sins, there were people and their sin was splitting.

But we're assuming markets that aren't traditional split-summer markets.


What would you say are "traditional" split-summer markets?


NY and DC big firms tended to be ok pre shit economy, not sure how things are now. some "top" firms will absolutely not let u split. which was my case....so what i did was actually accept 1 entire summer from big law, then ask if i could join other mid law program 1/2 way through. and they were amenable to that. just call both firms and ask the nice HR ladies.


How did you raise the question with the first firm? It seems like you might have just had a very easy-going relationship with them. Also, do you think there is a difference if you are dealing with smaller class sizes. For example, a NOVA 3-summer class and an Atlanta 5-summer in-house class (which, contrary to the general rule, makes offers to about 2/3 of its summers)?

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dood
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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby dood » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How did you raise the question with the first firm? It seems like you might have just had a very easy-going relationship with them. Also, do you think there is a difference if you are dealing with smaller class sizes. For example, a NOVA 3-summer class and an Atlanta 5-summer in-house class (which, contrary to the general rule, makes offers to about 2/3 of its summers)?


i asked both firms, the 1st firm said "no" so i accepted their offer in the same conversation (figuring id choose big law no matter what). then i called mid law firm, told them i was really interested in their specific practice, really liked the people, but had already taken offer at 1st big firm - and asked if they were willing to let me work a few weeks after my 1st SA. and they agreed. i think showing u'r more interested in just another paycheck is key. i had legit prior relevant work experience in field and actually did get along really really well with the people.

im really not sure about class size. logically u would think they wouldnt be happy about 1 person not accepting bc then they lose a third of the class (whereas 1 person not accepting in big law class makes barely a difference at all). but my second mid law firm only had 4 summers in my office. so who knows.

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby 09042014 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:39 pm

People at my firm "strongly suggested" that a person who was splitting should stay the full 10 weeks. Clearly the firm didn't like it. He got an awkward exit interview, and I'm not sure he got an offer.

There was someone on TLS this cycle, a Megapoaster, who got dinged at both SA's.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:58 pm

Desert Fox wrote:People at my firm "strongly suggested" that a person who was splitting should stay the full 10 weeks. Clearly the firm didn't like it. He got an awkward exit interview, and I'm not sure he got an offer.

There was someone on TLS this cycle, a Megapoaster, who got dinged at both SA's.


So the advice should be to only split if the schedule accommodates it (i.e. If you have to ask a firm to tailor their program to you, splitting is a bad idea...if you can complete one entire program as it was originally scheduled by the firm, then move on and complete another entire program as it was originally scheduled at the firm, do it).

I split both summers and got offers both summers at firms that had 8 weeks first half or second half programs. I didn't have to ask anyone about splitting because each firm's program didn't have any overlap and had a natural end that made this possible. As I stated in my previous post, if you find yourself in a situation like this, you'd be an idiot not to split (especially if you make that decision based on some fear of getting double no offered).

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby IAFG » Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:02 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:People at my firm "strongly suggested" that a person who was splitting should stay the full 10 weeks. Clearly the firm didn't like it. He got an awkward exit interview, and I'm not sure he got an offer.

There was someone on TLS this cycle, a Megapoaster, who got dinged at both SA's.


So the advice should be to only split if the schedule accommodates it (i.e. If you have to ask a firm to tailor their program to you, splitting is a bad idea...if you can complete one entire program as it was originally scheduled by the firm, then move on and complete another entire program as it was originally scheduled at the firm, do it).

I split both summers and got offers both summers at firms that had 8 weeks first half or second half programs. I didn't have to ask anyone about splitting because each firm's program didn't have any overlap and had a natural end that made this possible. As I stated in my previous post, if you find yourself in a situation like this, you'd be an idiot not to split (especially if you make that decision based on some fear of getting double no offered).

You're right, and I missed that both firms had an 8 week program by design.

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:17 pm

Do people still feel as negative about splitting, if you are returning to a firm you worked for during your 1L year, and only going back for a few weeks?

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Do people still feel as negative about splitting, if you are returning to a firm you worked for during your 1L year, and only going back for a few weeks?


I would think this is even more of an ideal situation. I'm personally doing it myself, and my 1L firm is only requiring 5 weeks. My perspective is that if I can produce similar work to last summer (and absent any fatal occurrences), I should get an offer. Not sure if this is off-base though.

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:33 pm

IAFG wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:You're right, I have been around longer, and I have seen it happen. I understand why from an outside perspective it would sound like you were doubling your shot at an offer, but that's not the case.


Not OP, but I'm planning to do something similar. I also have never heard of anyone getting double no-offered, but know of a few people who have received two offers. Could you elaborate on who you've seen receive a double no-offer and under what circumstances?

It happened fairly frequently in the crash (as in, splitters were the first to get cut when some offers were getting revoked). If you're asking for a list of people and their sins, there were people and their sin was splitting.

But we're assuming markets that aren't traditional split-summer markets.


Not disagreeing with you, but I did research on this topic at my school. I looked up people who split with two firms (non-Texas), The four people I talked to all received double offers. Maybe I just picked the right four people but I haven't heard of any body here that was double no-offered.

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby anon168 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Do people still feel as negative about splitting, if you are returning to a firm you worked for during your 1L year, and only going back for a few weeks?


I would think this is even more of an ideal situation. I'm personally doing it myself, and my 1L firm is only requiring 5 weeks. My perspective is that if I can produce similar work to last summer (and absent any fatal occurrences), I should get an offer. Not sure if this is off-base though.


You're not off-base.

And for those who had 1L SA gigs, it is imperative to go back for at least a couple of weeks during your 2L summer even if your 1L firm does not require it.

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:07 pm

KidStuddi wrote:You've been around here much longer than I, but I have yet to see a credited anecdote about someone being double no-offered.


Anonymous User wrote:Not OP, but I'm planning to do something similar. I also have never heard of anyone getting double no-offered . . .


unc0mm0n1 wrote:Not disagreeing with you, but I did research on this topic at my school. I looked up people who split with two firms (non-Texas), The four people I talked to all received double offers. Maybe I just picked the right four people but I haven't heard of any body here that was double no-offered.



Sup. Went 0/2 on offers after my split. I might field some non-specific Qs.

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
KidStuddi wrote:You've been around here much longer than I, but I have yet to see a credited anecdote about someone being double no-offered.


Anonymous User wrote:Not OP, but I'm planning to do something similar. I also have never heard of anyone getting double no-offered . . .


unc0mm0n1 wrote:Not disagreeing with you, but I did research on this topic at my school. I looked up people who split with two firms (non-Texas), The four people I talked to all received double offers. Maybe I just picked the right four people but I haven't heard of any body here that was double no-offered.



Sup. Went 0/2 on offers after my split. I might field some non-specific Qs.


What led to the no-offers?

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What led to the no-offers?

In the interest of relevancy, I'll say that that at one of the firms, that I had split was a negative.

Some commentators may doubt this, but I did not have any fit problems or do bad work.

More specific details will probably divulge an already unique situation.

The reason I posted was more to challenge the assumption that people don't go 0/2.

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby arism87 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sup. Went 0/2 on offers after my split. I might field some non-specific Qs.


How did the firms originally respond to your decision to split? Were they hesitant to let you or did they act like it was totally fine, only to later not give an offer?

Also, what year was this?

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:54 pm

arism87 wrote:How did the firms originally respond to your decision to split? Were they hesitant to let you or did they act like it was totally fine, only to later not give an offer?

One firm only offered a split. Other firm was lukewarm. People at both firms told me an offer at end of summer was mine for the taking.
Also, what year was this?

Post crash OCI (class of 2011, 2012, 2013).

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby arism87 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
arism87 wrote:How did the firms originally respond to your decision to split? Were they hesitant to let you or did they act like it was totally fine, only to later not give an offer?

One firm only offered a split. Other firm was lukewarm. People at both firms told me an offer at end of summer was mine for the taking.
Also, what year was this?

Post crash OCI (class of 2011, 2012, 2013).


Damn! I'm really sorry. And as someone contemplating splitting, this is really terrifying.

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
arism87 wrote:How did the firms originally respond to your decision to split? Were they hesitant to let you or did they act like it was totally fine, only to later not give an offer?

One firm only offered a split. Other firm was lukewarm. People at both firms told me an offer at end of summer was mine for the taking.
Also, what year was this?

Post crash OCI (class of 2011, 2012, 2013).


School range? And firm range? Were these firms that traditionally offer 100% of summers. The few people who I talked to who did this were at firms that traditionally had very high offer rates.


Disclaimer: Again I only talked to 4 people at a top school so that might skew my anecdotal evidence.

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Re: Splitting summer 8/8 wks

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:22 pm

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
arism87 wrote:How did the firms originally respond to your decision to split? Were they hesitant to let you or did they act like it was totally fine, only to later not give an offer?

One firm only offered a split. Other firm was lukewarm. People at both firms told me an offer at end of summer was mine for the taking.
Also, what year was this?

Post crash OCI (class of 2011, 2012, 2013).


School range? And firm range? Were these firms that traditionally offer 100% of summers. The few people who I talked to who did this were at firms that traditionally had very high offer rates.


Disclaimer: Again I only talked to 4 people at a top school so that might skew my anecdotal evidence.

School range - Comparable to that of the other SAs at both firms.

Firm range - Irrelevant for the purposes of current 2Ls, considering you can look up the offer rate of of both.

Offer rates - High, but it would not be unusual to not see 100%.




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