What is the best 9-5 job?

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shock259
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby shock259 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:20 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
KidStuddi wrote:
anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I worked in a law firm and absolutely hated it. I have an interview coming up this week at a prosecutor's office. I'm hoping I like that better. I wondering what would be ideal jobs for someone that just wants a 9-5 job. I'm a 3L so I think it is too late to drop out at this point. Any advice would be appreciated.


Pharmacist.


More like PharmacisTTT. Such a total and complete glut of them out there nowadays. Have multiple friends who went through four years of pharmacy school only to end up joining the military because that was the only way they could realistically pay off their loans before they were 40.
Also, pharmacists work retail hours or hospital hours (re: not 9-5).


I have a pharmacist friend in Colorado who makes $120k starting. She works at a Walgreens.


I have a friend in CO too (strangely) that makes $110k starting and works at a nursing home. She works weird hours, though (7 days on, 7 days off, 12 hour days).

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ph14
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby ph14 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:21 pm

lr1995 wrote:Career law clerk for judge is TCR, by far. I know one who has been working for the same state judge for like 15 years, has amazing job security, like the only way he's out of a job is if the world ends or the judge dies or something because the judge literally can't function without him. Anyways, he's in the courtroom by 10 out at 4. That's on a busy day.

How much does he make though? 125k and it keeps going up somehow.


How much do the judges make? That seems to be nearly as much as a state judge.

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thesealocust
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby thesealocust » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:23 pm

I think the president makes like 250 and most federal jobs top out around 160-170K, but if you stick with it and aren't in an entry level/grunt type job making 6 figures is very doable in federal service. I haven't looked it up in a while though.

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lr1995
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby lr1995 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:31 pm

ph14 wrote:
lr1995 wrote:Career law clerk for judge is TCR, by far. I know one who has been working for the same state judge for like 15 years, has amazing job security, like the only way he's out of a job is if the world ends or the judge dies or something because the judge literally can't function without him. Anyways, he's in the courtroom by 10 out at 4. That's on a busy day.

How much does he make though? 125k and it keeps going up somehow.


How much do the judges make? That seems to be nearly as much as a state judge.


It's Superior Court in Cali, which I think pays the highest state judicial salaries. Still, I think making yourself indispensable to any state court can lead to a pretty cushy job.

HeavenWood
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:50 pm

thesealocust wrote:I think the president makes like 250 and most federal jobs top out around 160-170K, but if you stick with it and aren't in an entry level/grunt type job making 6 figures is very doable in federal service. I haven't looked it up in a while though.

The prez now makes 400k--scraping the lower reaches of DAT 1%.

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Tom Joad
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby Tom Joad » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:54 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
thesealocust wrote:I think the president makes like 250 and most federal jobs top out around 160-170K, but if you stick with it and aren't in an entry level/grunt type job making 6 figures is very doable in federal service. I haven't looked it up in a while though.

The prez now makes 400k--scraping the lower reaches of DAT 1%.

They should lower the income standard to be part of the 1% to $160,000 so some TLSers actually have a chance to join sometime relatively soon.

HeavenWood
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:55 pm

Tom Joad wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
thesealocust wrote:I think the president makes like 250 and most federal jobs top out around 160-170K, but if you stick with it and aren't in an entry level/grunt type job making 6 figures is very doable in federal service. I haven't looked it up in a while though.

The prez now makes 400k--scraping the lower reaches of DAT 1%.

They should lower the income standard to be part of the 1% to $160,000 so some TLSers actually have a chance to join sometime relatively soon.

7 years of NYC biglaw lockstep doesn't leave you far off.

lukertin
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby lukertin » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:02 pm

HeavenWood wrote:Federal career clerks can make a little over six figures, right?

If you are there for a very, very, very long time, yes.

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Rocío
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby Rocío » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:11 pm

IAFG wrote:Career clerk.


TCR. Some states call them staff attorneys or court attorneys.

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FlanAl
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby FlanAl » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:12 pm

Displeased wrote:
r6_philly wrote:I get the feeling that DA or PD office are far from 9-5.

The only JDs that I know working 9-5 are in some non-judicial government/PI positions, in areas like economic development or foundations, and many agencies.


PD offices are often 9-5, sometimes more like 10-4.

Its kind of strange. PDs do have an absurd caseload, but that doesn't really translate into increased hours. Average day at a public defender's office involves maybe 2-3 hours of court time, 1 hour communicating with the prosecution about cases, 2 hours of witness interviewing/client meetings/trips to the jail, and 2 hours of miscellaneous stuff.

Only time you'd really have to work is in the lead up to a jury trial, and even then, we're only talking like a couple hours of additional invested time. And, of course, if a trial runs overtime you have no choice but to stick around. But still, in my experience it would be very strange for someone to stay in the office much past 5:00.


office I interned at it was way more like 8-5 and there were always a couple of people there after 5. It was definitely never 10-4.

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FlanAl
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby FlanAl » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:13 pm

also is being a staff attorney enjoyable?

lukertin
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby lukertin » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:17 pm

FlanAl wrote:office I interned at it was way more like 8-5 and there were always a couple of people there after 5. It was definitely never 10-4.

office I used to work at, i would leave around 8 or 9 and every week i could see that someone was bringing delivery chinese food/ pizza to the some poor guy.

Anonymous User
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:21 pm

Administrative Law Judge. $100k+ salary, interns and sometimes even clerks, plus 10-4 schedule.

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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:35 pm

shock259 wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:I have a pharmacist friend in Colorado who makes $120k starting. She works at a Walgreens.


I have a friend in CO too (strangely) that makes $110k starting and works at a nursing home. She works weird hours, though (7 days on, 7 days off, 12 hour days).


Well obviously it's still possible to goto pharmacy school and get a job. Your friends having done so does not really say anything about the market in general. More relevant to this conversation is the fact that pharmacists do not work 9-5, which is what OP asked about. They may have clearly defined hours and won't be taking work home with them (unless they enjoy DEA raids), but they work retail hours or they do shift work.

Edit: Didn't mean to anon.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:37 pm

FlanAl wrote:also is being a staff attorney enjoyable?

Depends what you like to do. I'm familiar with this at a state appellate court. You write draft opinions for all the judges, and specialize generally in a couple of areas (so someone would do only criminal, or only juvenile, or only social security, or unemployment, etc.). You tend to get cases that are expected to be pretty routine (they may not turn out that way, but I think that's the expectation). You do pretty much the exact same thing every day: read briefs, read record, research, write. You might go to oral arguments now and then. Personally, I prefer a little more variety, but it's a great 9-5 gig. I can't imagine they ever take work home.

lukertin
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby lukertin » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:41 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
FlanAl wrote:also is being a staff attorney enjoyable?

Depends what you like to do. I'm familiar with this at a state appellate court. You write draft opinions for all the judges, and specialize generally in a couple of areas (so someone would do only criminal, or only juvenile, or only social security, or unemployment, etc.). You tend to get cases that are expected to be pretty routine (they may not turn out that way, but I think that's the expectation). You do pretty much the exact same thing every day: read briefs, read record, research, write. You might go to oral arguments now and then. Personally, I prefer a little more variety, but it's a great 9-5 gig. I can't imagine they ever take work home.

ooc, do you guys have like a production requirement? like you are expected to do one case every X days?

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Tom Joad
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby Tom Joad » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:43 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
FlanAl wrote:also is being a staff attorney enjoyable?

Depends what you like to do. I'm familiar with this at a state appellate court. You write draft opinions for all the judges, and specialize generally in a couple of areas (so someone would do only criminal, or only juvenile, or only social security, or unemployment, etc.). You tend to get cases that are expected to be pretty routine (they may not turn out that way, but I think that's the expectation). You do pretty much the exact same thing every day: read briefs, read record, research, write. You might go to oral arguments now and then. Personally, I prefer a little more variety, but it's a great 9-5 gig. I can't imagine they ever take work home.

Any idea if it is common for them to specialize in areas like IP or high level corporate since judges may not have a ton of experience in those fields?

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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:43 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
KidStuddi wrote:
anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I worked in a law firm and absolutely hated it. I have an interview coming up this week at a prosecutor's office. I'm hoping I like that better. I wondering what would be ideal jobs for someone that just wants a 9-5 job. I'm a 3L so I think it is too late to drop out at this point. Any advice would be appreciated.


Pharmacist.


More like PharmacisTTT. Such a total and complete glut of them out there nowadays. Have multiple friends who went through four years of pharmacy school only to end up joining the military because that was the only way they could realistically pay off their loans before they were 40.
Also, pharmacists work retail hours or hospital hours (re: not 9-5).


I have a pharmacist friend in Colorado who makes $120k starting. She works at a Walgreens.


I WAS a pharmacy major and a number of my friends from that school are unemployed (the only reason this is anon is because I feel with my username that it would out me). The degree is no longer that valuable.

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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:57 pm

lukertin wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
FlanAl wrote:also is being a staff attorney enjoyable?

Depends what you like to do. I'm familiar with this at a state appellate court. You write draft opinions for all the judges, and specialize generally in a couple of areas (so someone would do only criminal, or only juvenile, or only social security, or unemployment, etc.). You tend to get cases that are expected to be pretty routine (they may not turn out that way, but I think that's the expectation). You do pretty much the exact same thing every day: read briefs, read record, research, write. You might go to oral arguments now and then. Personally, I prefer a little more variety, but it's a great 9-5 gig. I can't imagine they ever take work home.

ooc, do you guys have like a production requirement? like you are expected to do one case every X days?

I think so, but am not sure exactly what it is. Cases are doled out on a regular basis - chambers gets one staff attorney case every 2 weeks (that is, the staff attorney drafts the opinion, the judge is the author), but I don't know how many cases each staff attorney has at a given time. Law clerks get (roughly) one case every 2 weeks - the staff attorneys may well get more, since they're generally writing in only one or a couple of areas of law. (There are also some staff attorneys who do things like jurisdiction review, and there's a head staff attorney and second-in-command staff attorney [not the actual title], so they may have different production requirements - not sure.)

(Sorry, didn't mean to go anon - A. Nony Mouse.)

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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:16 pm

lukertin wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
FlanAl wrote:also is being a staff attorney enjoyable?

Depends what you like to do. I'm familiar with this at a state appellate court. You write draft opinions for all the judges, and specialize generally in a couple of areas (so someone would do only criminal, or only juvenile, or only social security, or unemployment, etc.). You tend to get cases that are expected to be pretty routine (they may not turn out that way, but I think that's the expectation). You do pretty much the exact same thing every day: read briefs, read record, research, write. You might go to oral arguments now and then. Personally, I prefer a little more variety, but it's a great 9-5 gig. I can't imagine they ever take work home.

ooc, do you guys have like a production requirement? like you are expected to do one case every X days?


Apparently in the 2d Cir. staff attorney office they are expected to write 3 bench memos a week and the work is unpleasantly intense.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:18 pm

Tom Joad wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
FlanAl wrote:also is being a staff attorney enjoyable?

Depends what you like to do. I'm familiar with this at a state appellate court. You write draft opinions for all the judges, and specialize generally in a couple of areas (so someone would do only criminal, or only juvenile, or only social security, or unemployment, etc.). You tend to get cases that are expected to be pretty routine (they may not turn out that way, but I think that's the expectation). You do pretty much the exact same thing every day: read briefs, read record, research, write. You might go to oral arguments now and then. Personally, I prefer a little more variety, but it's a great 9-5 gig. I can't imagine they ever take work home.

Any idea if it is common for them to specialize in areas like IP or high level corporate since judges may not have a ton of experience in those fields?

hahahahahahahahahaha. no.

sorry, but this kind of misses the point of having state appellate staff attorneys (no reason why you should know this, though). They're there to pound through the vast quantity of (mostly meritless) appeals that the court gets. They specialize in workers' comp, unemployment, juvenile, domestic, and certain kinds of criminal because those are the cases that come up again and again and again - and, frankly, a lot of them aren't especially complicated areas of law. I swear every other divorce appeal I saw was a pro se appellant ranting and raving that the judge was TOTALLY BIASED in favor of the evil ex because the judge ruled for the evil ex. I mean, it's not like even a ranting pro se appellant can't raise a valid issue, but usually they don't. In any case, cases are routed to the staff attorneys precisely because they're routine and not difficult.

Plus, judges tend to snag complex/interesting cases for themselves (granted, this means clerks research/write drafts rather than staff attorneys, but the clerks are there, in chambers, so the process is more interactive/interesting for the judge).

And actually, we had a lot of judges who had done a lot of complex civil lit before becoming judges, which, sure, isn't the same as high-level corporate, but entails the litigation that takes place around any high-level corporate work before it's even going to get to the court of appeals. (As for IP - I'm not sure much of that ends up in state court? I mean, so much of that stuff is federal, right?)

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
lukertin wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
FlanAl wrote:also is being a staff attorney enjoyable?

Depends what you like to do. I'm familiar with this at a state appellate court. You write draft opinions for all the judges, and specialize generally in a couple of areas (so someone would do only criminal, or only juvenile, or only social security, or unemployment, etc.). You tend to get cases that are expected to be pretty routine (they may not turn out that way, but I think that's the expectation). You do pretty much the exact same thing every day: read briefs, read record, research, write. You might go to oral arguments now and then. Personally, I prefer a little more variety, but it's a great 9-5 gig. I can't imagine they ever take work home.

ooc, do you guys have like a production requirement? like you are expected to do one case every X days?


Apparently in the 2d Cir. staff attorney office they are expected to write 3 bench memos a week and the work is unpleasantly intense.

Yes, I'm quite sure the 2d Cir. is a LOT more intense than the court I know! :)

anon168
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby anon168 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:23 pm

I would rather clean urinals with my own toothbrush than work as a career law clerk, or staff attorney.

keg411
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby keg411 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:25 pm

lr1995 wrote:Career law clerk for judge is TCR, by far. I know one who has been working for the same state judge for like 15 years, has amazing job security, like the only way he's out of a job is if the world ends or the judge dies or something because the judge literally can't function without him. Anyways, he's in the courtroom by 10 out at 4. That's on a busy day.

How much does he make though? 125k and it keeps going up somehow.


It's pretty much the ultra "mommy track" job too. But I'm pretty sure you have to be at least somewhat connected. The only person I knew who had that job's husband was a county prosecutor and she had local BigLaw prior to getting the career clerk job. Hours were like 8:30-4:30.

I think the only downside is that it seems like it might be kind of dull and repetitive and seem almost like glorified secretarial work at times (at least on the state level in my state where all the judges on every level have term clerks).
Last edited by keg411 on Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KidStuddi
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Re: What is the best 9-5 job?

Postby KidStuddi » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:28 pm

anon168 wrote:I would rather clean urinals with my own toothbrush than work as a career law clerk, or staff attorney.


Have nothing to contribute other than that this made me genuinely lol.




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