Job prospects in NY for middle of nowhere clerkship

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Anonymous User
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Job prospects in NY for middle of nowhere clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:41 pm

At Fordham, just outside top 10%/secondary but prob going to strike out. SDNY/EDNY is a stretch but I think I could be pretty competitive for a more remote district court clerkship if I keep my grades up and write a note. I would go nearly anywhere as long as its not unbearably cold (i.e. alaska or minnesota). Would biglaw be a reasonable goal after that type of clerkship?

anon168
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Re: Job prospects in NY for middle of nowhere clerkship

Postby anon168 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:At Fordham, just outside top 10%/secondary but prob going to strike out. SDNY/EDNY is a stretch but I think I could be pretty competitive for a more remote district court clerkship if I keep my grades up and write a note. I would go nearly anywhere as long as its not unbearably cold (i.e. alaska or minnesota). Would biglaw be a reasonable goal after that type of clerkship?


Yes, esp. satellite office of biglaw.

anongoodnurse
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Re: Job prospects in NY for middle of nowhere clerkship

Postby anongoodnurse » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:At Fordham, just outside top 10%/secondary but prob going to strike out. SDNY/EDNY is a stretch but I think I could be pretty competitive for a more remote district court clerkship if I keep my grades up and write a note. I would go nearly anywhere as long as its not unbearably cold (i.e. alaska or minnesota). Would biglaw be a reasonable goal after that type of clerkship?


Since 2008, according to lawschooltransparency.com, the highest percentage of Fordham graduates going to a federal (much less AIII) clerkship is 3.9%. Post-ITE, and it's more like 2.5%. If you aren't in the top 5% of the class, even a "remote district court clerkship" is a huge stretch. If you aren't in the top 10%, it's not happening if you don't know someone really well.

People don't understand how competitive AIII clerkships are. At a school like Fordham, maybe 12 or so students a year get them -- and those are almost exclusively drawn from the top 20 or so of the class. And it doesn't matter where the clerkships are. Consider: The D. Wyoming is in the middle of nowhere. But between the top 3-5 of the class at Wyoming, plus the top students at Colorado and Nebraska and Montana and Utah who don't have AIII clerkships elsewhere, plus the top T14 students originally from Wyoming who (also) don't have AIII clerkships elsewhere -- that's probably dozens of people applying for a third as many spots. Why on earth would a D. Wyoming judge go with a Fordham student who was #62 in the class as opposed to a U. Wyoming student who is #3 in the class (or a CU student who is #6 or an above-median Harvard student or a Northwestern student from Casper who is in the top quarter)?

There is precisely one scenario in which it is harder to get biglaw than an AIII clerkship -- if you are in the top 5 (students, not percent) at a podunk school in the middle of nowhere. Other than that, if you couldn't get biglaw, you can't get a USDC or COA clerkship either.

aca0260
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Re: Job prospects in NY for middle of nowhere clerkship

Postby aca0260 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:29 pm

It happens more than you think that people strike out at OCI and land Article III. I imagine the top 10% at Fordham generally gets biglaw so your info may be a lot of self selection opting out of clerking. OP likely has a reasonable shot.

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Re: Job prospects in NY for middle of nowhere clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:29 pm

anongoodnurse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:At Fordham, just outside top 10%/secondary but prob going to strike out. SDNY/EDNY is a stretch but I think I could be pretty competitive for a more remote district court clerkship if I keep my grades up and write a note. I would go nearly anywhere as long as its not unbearably cold (i.e. alaska or minnesota). Would biglaw be a reasonable goal after that type of clerkship?


Since 2008, according to lawschooltransparency.com, the highest percentage of Fordham graduates going to a federal (much less AIII) clerkship is 3.9%. Post-ITE, and it's more like 2.5%. If you aren't in the top 5% of the class, even a "remote district court clerkship" is a huge stretch. If you aren't in the top 10%, it's not happening if you don't know someone really well.

People don't understand how competitive AIII clerkships are. At a school like Fordham, maybe 12 or so students a year get them -- and those are almost exclusively drawn from the top 20 or so of the class. And it doesn't matter where the clerkships are. Consider: The D. Wyoming is in the middle of nowhere. But between the top 3-5 of the class at Wyoming, plus the top students at Colorado and Nebraska and Montana and Utah who don't have AIII clerkships elsewhere, plus the top T14 students originally from Wyoming who (also) don't have AIII clerkships elsewhere -- that's probably dozens of people applying for a third as many spots. Why on earth would a D. Wyoming judge go with a Fordham student who was #62 in the class as opposed to a U. Wyoming student who is #3 in the class (or a CU student who is #6 or an above-median Harvard student or a Northwestern student from Casper who is in the top quarter)?

There is precisely one scenario in which it is harder to get biglaw than an AIII clerkship -- if you are in the top 5 (students, not percent) at a podunk school in the middle of nowhere. Other than that, if you couldn't get biglaw, you can't get a USDC or COA clerkship either.
Anecdote alert: I got an AIII clerkship in a district where I had no ties after missing out on biglaw with similar stats/school as OP. Yeah, it might be a long shot, but sometimes your application just rubs a judge in the right way.

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L’Étranger
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Re: Job prospects in NY for middle of nowhere clerkship

Postby L’Étranger » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:30 pm

anon168 wrote:
Yes, esp. satellite office of biglaw.


Not sure that this is factually correct.

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Re: Job prospects in NY for middle of nowhere clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:31 pm

I know my judge this summer gave offers to people with no ties.

lolwat
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Re: Job prospects in NY for middle of nowhere clerkship

Postby lolwat » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:31 pm

Yeah-- I struck out at OCI and got clerkship. Not from Fordham, but the comment about "sometimes your application just rubs a judge in the right way" is definitely true.

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nevdash
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Re: Job prospects in NY for middle of nowhere clerkship

Postby nevdash » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:34 pm

L’Étranger wrote:
anon168 wrote:
Yes, esp. satellite office of biglaw.


Not sure that this is factually correct.

So are you saying that it's not a reasonable goal to shoot for BigLaw out of a flyover D.Ct. clerkship? Or that it's not an especially reasonable goal to shoot for a satellite office? If the former, I have to imagine that you're wrong.

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Re: Job prospects in NY for middle of nowhere clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:36 pm

It's possible but extremely unlikely that you'll get a clerkship. It doesn't hurt to apply (other than your time). If you manage to get one, it's possible but unlikely that you'll be able to turn that into a biglaw offer without having summered anywhere.

This is not a plan, it's an incredible long shot. but if you have no other options, and aren't willing to drop out, then go for it.

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L’Étranger
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Re: Job prospects in NY for middle of nowhere clerkship

Postby L’Étranger » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:58 pm

nevdash wrote:
L’Étranger wrote:
anon168 wrote:
Yes, esp. satellite office of biglaw.


Not sure that this is factually correct.

So are you saying that it's not a reasonable goal to shoot for BigLaw out of a flyover D.Ct. clerkship? Or that it's not an especially reasonable goal to shoot for a satellite office? If the former, I have to imagine that you're wrong.


Oh. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know a whole lot about getting clerkships or how they affect job prospects.

I do however think that getting hired at a satellite office is generally just as hard if not harder than a firm's home office. That was the part of the previous post I was responding to.

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nevdash
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Re: Job prospects in NY for middle of nowhere clerkship

Postby nevdash » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:07 am

L’Étranger wrote:
nevdash wrote:
L’Étranger wrote:
anon168 wrote:
Yes, esp. satellite office of biglaw.


Not sure that this is factually correct.

So are you saying that it's not a reasonable goal to shoot for BigLaw out of a flyover D.Ct. clerkship? Or that it's not an especially reasonable goal to shoot for a satellite office? If the former, I have to imagine that you're wrong.


Oh. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know a whole lot about getting clerkships or how they affect job prospects.

I do however think that getting hired at a satellite office is generally just as hard if not harder than a firm's home office. That was the part of the previous post I was responding to.

Got it. Glad I hedged in my comment. :)

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Job prospects in NY for middle of nowhere clerkship

Postby somewhatwayward » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:At Fordham, just outside top 10%/secondary but prob going to strike out. SDNY/EDNY is a stretch but I think I could be pretty competitive for a more remote district court clerkship if I keep my grades up and write a note. I would go nearly anywhere as long as its not unbearably cold (i.e. alaska or minnesota). Would biglaw be a reasonable goal after that type of clerkship?


anongoodnurse's analysis is harsh but probably true to a large extent....that is, you cannot rely on this plan. If this plan fell through, do you have a Plan B? The good news is that you have a whole year to bring your grades up. The bad news is that the lack of LR, especially coming from Fordham, is a negative. Most schools have a way of allowing students to "note on" to the main journal where you basically submit your note to the main journal and if it is chosen for publication, you become a member of the LR. Whether you can get an e-board position after noting on, I don't know, so maybe it would be good to get the e-board position on your secondary journal. Also, if your note does not get chosen by your journal or the LR, send it off to every other law journal it could possibly qualify for; someone will publish it. Good luck!

aca0260 wrote:I imagine the top 10% at Fordham generally gets biglaw so your info may be a lot of self selection opting out of clerking. OP likely has a reasonable shot.


Biglaw and clerkship are not mutually exclusive. Lots of students who get clerkships also got big law or, at the least, were very competitive for big law if they decided not to pursue it for some reason. People eligible for biglaw and people eligible for clerkships overlap to a large extent, especially the lower you go down the food chain. Sure, some people with big law might opt out of clerking, but it probably is not enough to make someone outside the top 10% of students competitive. I think saying OP has a "reasonable shot" is definitely overstating it. But luckily OP does have a year to make him/herself more competitive.

anon168
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Re: Job prospects in NY for middle of nowhere clerkship

Postby anon168 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:41 am

L’Étranger wrote:I do however think that getting hired at a satellite office is generally just as hard if not harder than a firm's home office. That was the part of the previous post I was responding to.


No.




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