big firms that are NOT up or out

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Anonymous User
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Re: big firms that are NOT up or out

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
RVP11 wrote:Virtually every firm that has a lot of non-equity partners is going to be less "up or out" than a firm with only equity partners.

For example, your typical big NYC firm might have like 100 partners (all equity) and 400 associates.

Your typical smaller market firm might have more like 70 equity partners, 140 non-equity partners, and 140 associates. This firm is just as leveraged, and it could be just as hard to get equity, but you're able to stay way longer.


Notable exception: Kirkland (though your "virtually" carve out covers this, just want to make it explicit).


Although, the nice thing about how Kirkland does it is that pretty much everyone makes non-equity partner in the seven year range. So even in the (admittedly likely) event that you leave before making equity partner, you're still leaving as a partner.

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Re: big firms that are NOT up or out

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:43 pm

...

anon168
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Re: big firms that are NOT up or out

Postby anon168 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I mean, biggest worry is that I stick it out at my big firm, get shot down and try to move when it's too late. Ideal time to lateral out if I'm reasonably sure I'm not making equity partner?


Most firms let you know -- directly or indirectly -- by your 5th o 6th year.

Anonymous User wrote:Is making non equity detrimental to ones career if one is almost positive equity isn't in the cards?


No. But don't think making non-equity is a given, or all that easy.

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thesealocust
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Re: big firms that are NOT up or out

Postby thesealocust » Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:46 am

As a very general rule, equity partners are the owners of the business and earn a share of the profits because their presence brings in or maintains a substantial amount of business.

Senior lawyers who are not equity partners (there are many different titles and means of acquiring such a position) trend towards (but aren't exclusively) legal experts who are valuable to the firm but not as directly plugged in to the business model. Contrast with equity partners, who in the aggregate will see a lot of their time move from practicing law to managing other lawyers and managing/growing the business of the firm.

Being voted into partnership means that the partners literally give up a share of their compensation to you, and as such they aren't likely to do it except when they have little other choice (i.e. not making somebody partner threatens to lose them more money than making them partner, if they could leave with business or if they're necessary for some portion of business to continue) or when it is expected to be profitable over some time frame.

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Re: big firms that are NOT up or out

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:02 am

thesealocust wrote:As a very general rule, equity partners are the owners of the business and earn a share of the profits because their presence brings in or maintains a substantial amount of business.

Senior lawyers who are not equity partners (there are many different titles and means of acquiring such a position) trend towards (but aren't exclusively) legal experts who are valuable to the firm but not as directly plugged in to the business model. Contrast with equity partners, who in the aggregate will see a lot of their time move from practicing law to managing other lawyers and managing/growing the business of the firm.

Being voted into partnership means that the partners literally give up a share of their compensation to you, and as such they aren't likely to do it except when they have little other choice (i.e. not making somebody partner threatens to lose them more money than making them partner, if they could leave with business or if they're necessary for some portion of business to continue) or when it is expected to be profitable over some time frame.


OP here. I'm an attorney, so I know all of this.

anon168
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Re: big firms that are NOT up or out

Postby anon168 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:29 am

thesealocust wrote:As a very general rule, equity partners are the owners of the business and earn a share of the profits because their presence brings in or maintains a substantial amount of business.

Senior lawyers who are not equity partners (there are many different titles and means of acquiring such a position) trend towards (but aren't exclusively) legal experts who are valuable to the firm but not as directly plugged in to the business model. Contrast with equity partners, who in the aggregate will see a lot of their time move from practicing law to managing other lawyers and managing/growing the business of the firm.

Being voted into partnership means that the partners literally give up a share of their compensation to you, and as such they aren't likely to do it except when they have little other choice (i.e. not making somebody partner threatens to lose them more money than making them partner, if they could leave with business or if they're necessary for some portion of business to continue) or when it is expected to be profitable over some time frame.


Lawyer: "What's the color of your car?"

Deponent: "I drive a Honda Accord."

:roll:

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dingbat
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Re: big firms that are NOT up or out

Postby dingbat » Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:44 pm

anon168 wrote:Lawyer: "What's the color of your car?"

Deponent: "I drive a Honda Accord."

:roll:

:lol:

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Re: big firms that are NOT up or out

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:38 am

anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Complete and total list
Munger


Not correct.


So Munger isn't up or out, or there are other firmst that are not up or out?

anon168
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Re: big firms that are NOT up or out

Postby anon168 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:
anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Complete and total list
Munger


Not correct.


So Munger isn't up or out, or there are other firmst that are not up or out?


The former.




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