Not joining firm post-summer

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Anonymous User
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Not joining firm post-summer

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:15 pm

Here goes. I recently accepted a summer offer from one of New York's "mega-firms," but even more recently found out that my fiancee and I will be having a baby, which significantly alters my perspective on where I want to start my career. New York's COL is bad enough, but with a kid on the horizon it will be that much more devastating. My entire thinking has changed in the last couple weeks (for what I think is good reason), and I am now thinking that I want to start my career in a smaller market (not tiny, think Austin or San Diego), but my firm has no presence in these places. Basically, my question is this:

Could I parlay summering at one of New York's biggest firms into landing a post-graduation job in a smaller market which still has a BigLaw presence (which of course entails not accepting a potential post-summer job offer)? Or should I just suck it up and we live in New York for a couple years, and then try and lateral into some firms in my preferred city. Is this latter option a realistic one?

Also (sorry), does anyone have experience raising a small child in New York while working BigLaw there?

Hope all that made sense, and any advice is much appreciated.

fraught
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby fraught » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:27 pm

Ideally you'd be able to get another offer with a firm in a smaller market, but given that you already have a bird in the hand (and a child on the way), I think you'd be nuts to turn that down and start looking for something else right now. It certainly isn't ideal to have a baby while starting biglaw, but I think it's even worse to roll the dice and end up unemployed with a baby.

Anonymous User
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:46 pm

Thanks for the response. I definitely see your point, and with the economy not fully turned around, I don't want to be taking too many risks. I assume you think option 2 (accepting a post-summer position and being an associate in NY for 2-3 years and the back to smaller market) is best?

Thanks again.

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Renne Walker
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby Renne Walker » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:49 pm

In addition, the OPs predicament raises an interesting secondary question ―I suppose it has happened but I do not know of anyone who has accepted an offer and then reneged. I have read where someone accepted an offer and shortly thereafter received a better offer from another firm (perhaps better because of $$, preferred field, etc.). If I recall right the advice was that it is near sacrilege to accept then renege (even if the offer/acceptance was verbal and the paperwork had not yet arrived).

fraught
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby fraught » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the response. I definitely see your point, and with the economy not fully turned around, I don't want to be taking too many risks. I assume you think option 2 (accepting a post-summer position and being an associate in NY for 2-3 years and the back to smaller market) is best?

Thanks again.


Yeah, but I'm your typical risk-averse law student. :wink: It just seems like a ton of risk (and stress, worrying about finding another job) at a time that's already going to be filled with planning and worrying. If things go well those first few years, I imagine you'll have excellent exit options to smaller markets. As an aside, I think the biggest problems raising a kid in NYC crop up a few years down the line...with a little baby, you're not going to be worrying about schools or anything like that.

Also, before you think I'm super rude...CONGRATULATIONS!

imchuckbass58
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby imchuckbass58 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:54 pm

Renne Walker wrote:In addition, the OPs predicament raises an interesting secondary question ―I suppose it has happened but I do not know of anyone who has accepted an offer and then reneged. I have read where someone accepted an offer and shortly thereafter received a better offer from another firm (perhaps better because of $$, preferred field, etc.). If I recall right the advice was that it is near sacrilege to accept then renege (even if the offer/acceptance was verbal and the paperwork had not yet arrived).


My understanding is he's not thinking about reneging. He's going to do the summer no matter what, it's just a question of whether he does 3L recruiting in the secondary market or accepts the summer offer and then tries to lateral down the road.

de5igual
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby de5igual » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:55 pm

imchuckbass58 wrote:
Renne Walker wrote:In addition, the OPs predicament raises an interesting secondary question ―I suppose it has happened but I do not know of anyone who has accepted an offer and then reneged. I have read where someone accepted an offer and shortly thereafter received a better offer from another firm (perhaps better because of $$, preferred field, etc.). If I recall right the advice was that it is near sacrilege to accept then renege (even if the offer/acceptance was verbal and the paperwork had not yet arrived).


My understanding is he's not thinking about reneging. He's going to do the summer no matter what, it's just a question of whether he does 3L recruiting in the secondary market or accepts the summer offer and then tries to lateral down the road.


I don't get the dilemma then. He doesn't have a decision to make until next Aug-Oct, and even then, it's not like making one decision forecloses the other.

imchuckbass58
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby imchuckbass58 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:56 pm

Why can't you do both? I think the best course of action here is to recruit as a 3L for your secondary market. If it doesn't work out by your offer deadline (November 1st), then just accept the offer and try to lateral later.

As for how hard lateraling will be, it largely depends on whether you have ties to your secondary market. If you do, I imagine it will be much easier - you have great credentials and it makes total sense why you're moving. If you don't have connections, or have tenuous ones, then I imagine most firms in the secondary market would view you skeptically, regardless of your qualifications.

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Renne Walker
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby Renne Walker » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:58 pm

imchuckbass58 wrote:My understanding is he's not thinking about reneging. He's going to do the summer no matter what, it's just a question of whether he does 3L recruiting in the secondary market or accepts the summer offer and then tries to lateral down the road.

I think you are right. I misinterpreted.

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okinawa
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby okinawa » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:06 pm

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Last edited by okinawa on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Law Sauce
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby Law Sauce » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:20 pm

Easy, plan to move to park slope. Park slope = baby stroller capital of the world

Anonymous User
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:28 pm

OP here. Thanks for all the great advice, and it is definitely true that it is the schooling in New York that really burns a hole in your wallet, so if I leave before pre school, it isn't as bad.

As a note, I do have great ties to my preferred secondary market, so you make a good point that I have that working for me.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:26 am

Lots and lots of young associates at the NYC firm I worked at last summer had small kids or had kids on the way. I think it's actually a great place to have a baby, though obviously a pretty terrible place to have a school-age kid. Much easier to put the kid in a stroller and go for a walk, run to the store, go get dinner, etc., than it is to load up a carseat and drive someplace in a city like San DIego. I think you can relax and try to focus on your summer job for now, try to get a different position as a 3L, but feel comfortable that things will be okay if you end up working in New York for a few years.

lukertin
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby lukertin » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:37 am

Renne Walker wrote:In addition, the OPs predicament raises an interesting secondary question ―I suppose it has happened but I do not know of anyone who has accepted an offer and then reneged. I have read where someone accepted an offer and shortly thereafter received a better offer from another firm (perhaps better because of $$, preferred field, etc.). If I recall right the advice was that it is near sacrilege to accept then renege (even if the offer/acceptance was verbal and the paperwork had not yet arrived).

I did it.

And I don't give a fuck.

Anonymous User
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:37 am

NY has some fantastic schools. Either be in the correct district or hope your kid is smart enough to get in.

HeavenWood
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby HeavenWood » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:NY has some fantastic schools. Either be in the correct district or hope your kid is smart enough to get in.

Or you can join the millions of people who commute in from North Jersey and Western Long Island.

Also, great use of anon.

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Renne Walker
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby Renne Walker » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:51 am

lukertin wrote:
Renne Walker wrote:In addition, the OPs predicament raises an interesting secondary question ―I suppose it has happened but I do not know of anyone who has accepted an offer and then reneged. I have read where someone accepted an offer and shortly thereafter received a better offer from another firm (perhaps better because of $$, preferred field, etc.). If I recall right the advice was that it is near sacrilege to accept then renege (even if the offer/acceptance was verbal and the paperwork had not yet arrived).

I did it.

And I don't give a fuck.

What was the blowback? Or did nothing bad happen, no threats, nada?

r6_philly
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby r6_philly » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:55 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote: Much easier to put the kid in a stroller and go for a walk, run to the store, go get dinner, etc., than it is to load up a carseat and drive someplace in a city like San DIego.


I find it harder to go with a stroller ... and my son loves to go for rides, even when there is no need to.

Anonymous User
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:26 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:Lots and lots of young associates at the NYC firm I worked at last summer had small kids or had kids on the way. I think it's actually a great place to have a baby, though obviously a pretty terrible place to have a school-age kid. Much easier to put the kid in a stroller and go for a walk, run to the store, go get dinner, etc., than it is to load up a carseat and drive someplace in a city like San DIego. I think you can relax and try to focus on your summer job for now, try to get a different position as a 3L, but feel comfortable that things will be okay if you end up working in New York for a few years.


I see your point about a young child in New York, but my fiancee thinks otherwise. She thinks the fact that in every other city you have a car makes everything easier with a young child. But I'm with you, personally.

Here's to hoping there are some good firms recruiting 3L's at my school and in my preferred market.

lukertin
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Re: Not joining firm post-summer

Postby lukertin » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:59 pm

Renne Walker wrote:What was the blowback? Or did nothing bad happen, no threats, nada?

Blowback? Lol. What are they going to do? pffft.




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