Switching firms post-clerkship

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Switching firms post-clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:27 pm

Just got a D. Ct. clerkship for next year and contemplating not accepting my offer to my firm from this summer. Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated.

There are a lot of other considerations involved, but I'm curious how much money that decision could cost me. Would a firm I didn't summer with still pay for bar prep, moving expenses, clerkship bonus, etc.? Also, is there a good source for comparing clerkship bonuses firm to firm?

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Re: Switching firms post-clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just got a D. Ct. clerkship for next year and contemplating not accepting my offer to my firm from this summer. Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated.

There are a lot of other considerations involved, but I'm curious how much money that decision could cost me. Would a firm I didn't summer with still pay for bar prep, moving expenses, clerkship bonus, etc.? Also, is there a good source for comparing clerkship bonuses firm to firm?



This isn't how I'd do it. I'd accept, have them pay for all that shit and explain their clerkship bonus. Then, if you get an offer elsewhere, ask if they'll pay for bar prep, prep course, bonus, etc. At the very worst, you got an interest free loan from the firm that you'll have to repay if you go elsewhere.

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Re: Switching firms post-clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just got a D. Ct. clerkship for next year and contemplating not accepting my offer to my firm from this summer. Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated.

There are a lot of other considerations involved, but I'm curious how much money that decision could cost me. Would a firm I didn't summer with still pay for bar prep, moving expenses, clerkship bonus, etc.? Also, is there a good source for comparing clerkship bonuses firm to firm?



This isn't how I'd do it. I'd accept, have them pay for all that shit and explain their clerkship bonus. Then, if you get an offer elsewhere, ask if they'll pay for bar prep, prep course, bonus, etc. At the very worst, you got an interest free loan from the firm that you'll have to repay if you go elsewhere.


Am I innocent/naive to believe that is ethically dubious? I suppose the only repercussion is burning the bridge with firm #1?

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Re: Switching firms post-clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:26 pm

bump

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Re: Switching firms post-clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just got a D. Ct. clerkship for next year and contemplating not accepting my offer to my firm from this summer. Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated.

There are a lot of other considerations involved, but I'm curious how much money that decision could cost me. Would a firm I didn't summer with still pay for bar prep, moving expenses, clerkship bonus, etc.? Also, is there a good source for comparing clerkship bonuses firm to firm?


I posted this in the clerkship thread, I think it might lend some insight:

The proper first step is to ask your judge how s/he prefers to handle firm offers. Some judges prefer that you ask the firm to close the offer and to re-extend the offer towards the end of your clerkship. Some judges allow you to have an open offer, but do not allow you to accept it. Some judges allow you to accept an offer, but not to accept any money or benefit from the firm. Finally, a some judges allow you to accept an offer and receive money from the firm prior to the clerkship, but the money cannot be a salary advance (these are considered loans).

The second step is to find out if your firm will allow you to accept/receive money, some will not.

If the firm will allow you to accept, then you need to decide whether or not you want to return there. If, as you say, you are sure that you do not want to return, then you should not accept the offer. You can ask them to leave the offer open. You can also consider trying to get a pre-clerkship SA if you want to try another firm.

I know this was asked in another thread, and to answer the question presented there - it is not ethical to accept an offer from a firm and receive money from them if you know that there is absolutely zero odds of you returning there. That's different, though, from changing your mind - this happens, and the most important thing to do if you accept and change your mind is to be honest with the prior firm and to talk to them well in advance of the start date.

-DoubleClerk

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Re: Switching firms post-clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 10, 2016 10:24 pm

Hijacking / Necroing thread.

After discussing with my judge, I accepted my offer from my SA firm and told them I was coming back after the clerkship. Now I'm having second thoughts and am considering applying to other firms.

My paranoid question is, is there any chance that my SA firm would find out I'm applying to other places and renege my offer? Anyone hear about this happening / not happening?

Obviously they would find out during a background / conflicts check, but at that point I'd already have another offer in hand so it wouldn't matter.

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alicrimson
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Re: Switching firms post-clerkship

Postby alicrimson » Mon May 16, 2016 12:36 pm

Are you in a large market? When will your clerkship end? Can you excuse your firm switch by saying you want to focus on x area, and SA firm doesn't have x area? Are you looking at a couple particular firms or are you going to apply everywhere to see if you can do better? I think the answers to these questions would help us give you some advice. PM if you want.

If you're looking at one particular firm, you're situation is similar to my own. I am currently in a clerkship after having worked at a firm for a year. My plan is to return to original firm after the clerkship ends, but I was advised, if I want to apply to one or two specific firms, to just ask those firms not to contact my old firm because old firm doesn't know I'm looking. This kind of request happens with laterals all the time, so I don't see why it would be an issue.

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Re: Switching firms post-clerkship

Postby JusticeJackson » Mon May 16, 2016 1:11 pm

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Last edited by JusticeJackson on Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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rpupkin
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Re: Switching firms post-clerkship

Postby rpupkin » Mon May 16, 2016 1:28 pm

JusticeJackson wrote:There's almost no chance they'd find out. Just apply and see what you get. If you land something better, then cross the renege bridge when you get to it.

I disagree. I get questions like the following all the time: "X just applied to our firm and I see they worked at your firm. What was he/she like?" The legal world is small.

Maybe it's not likely that the OP's firm will find out. But I think your "almost no chance" estimate is inaccurate.

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Re: Switching firms post-clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 16, 2016 2:08 pm

Currently in a flyover clerkship. Accepted offer in a big firm in a big market; would be interested in applying to a very limited number of other firms in a medium-size market.

alicrimson wrote: [I]f I want to apply to one or two specific firms, to just ask those firms not to contact my old firm because old firm doesn't know I'm looking. This kind of request happens with laterals all the time, so I don't see why it would be an issue.


This seems like great advice, thanks!

rpupkin wrote: I get questions like the following all the time: "X just applied to our firm and I see they worked at your firm. What was he/she like?" The legal world is small.


This is exactly what I was worried about, so thanks for pointing this out.

The firm I accepted with is big enough / anonymous enough that even if one of the partners I had worked heard something like this, they probably wouldn't think twice about it. I'd be more worried about the recruiting department finding out, since they're really the only ones who keep track of who's coming and going.

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Re: Switching firms post-clerkship

Postby JusticeJackson » Mon May 16, 2016 2:13 pm

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Last edited by JusticeJackson on Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:21 am, edited 3 times in total.

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rpupkin
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Re: Switching firms post-clerkship

Postby rpupkin » Mon May 16, 2016 2:17 pm

JusticeJackson wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
JusticeJackson wrote:There's almost no chance they'd find out. Just apply and see what you get. If you land something better, then cross the renege bridge when you get to it.

I disagree. I get questions like the following all the time: "X just applied to our firm and I see they worked at your firm. What was he/she like?" The legal world is small.

Maybe it's not likely that the OP's firm will find out. But I think your "almost no chance" estimate is inaccurate.


No shit? All firms that are similar to yours and in the same city? Is this in a small or medium sized city? I guess I could see someone at Bryan Cave's Phoenix office make this type of call to someone at Ballard Spahr's Phoenix office. It's hard for me to imagine it if the resume is to a new city or to a different type of firm in the same big city.

No. I have lots of friends and acquaintances in different law firms throughout the country. (People I met in law school, people I met summering at law firms, people I met while clerking.) These people are at different types of firms (and different types of government jobs) in different cities. It really isn't uncommon to get someone asking about an applicant to whom I have a connection. I'm surprised you're surprised.




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