3L Job Search Exhaustion

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Anonymous User
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3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:15 pm

What should we be doing? Clerkship search was a total non-starter, even with 100+ applications. Top school but can barely get interviews, and the implicit message from every public and private employer is that I should have an offer by now—and I should only come back if I get real legal experience, as long I get it elsewhere. I realize there's a ton of people in this exactly predicament, but I feel like nobody really wants to hear it, so here I am. Any thoughts appreciated.

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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:29 pm

I am so disheartened ...law school was the biggest mistake I could have done. I hate the job, the people, the process, the everything. We're hopeless and in debt.

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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:37 pm

If I were in that position, I would work in a position outside of law, even if low paying, and let IBR take care of it. Not ideal, but it gives you choices. Sure the debt is there for 25 years, but it wouldn't be overly burdensome and you can again do whatever you want.

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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:41 pm

did you try state trial and appellate courts yet?

LawIdiot86
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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby LawIdiot86 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:51 pm

You would need to give more information for most people to be able to help Is "top school" a T6, T14 or T30? What's your rough position in class? Do you have any internships or WE, even if they aren't law related? What did you do 1L and 2L summers? What is your minimum salary required (i.e. what are your basic living expenses plus minimum student loan payments, accounting for FICA and income taxes)?

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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:41 pm

OP here. T6—that is, CCN—but somewhere lost in the middle of the class. I have a number of federal government internships and other public interest clinics and am open to either public or private employment. It's still September, so it may not be as bad yet as I made it out to be in the original post, but I'm starting to get 2-3 rejections/day, and it's driving me mad.

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worldtraveler
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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby worldtraveler » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. T6—that is, CCN—but somewhere lost in the middle of the class. I have a number of federal government internships and other public interest clinics and am open to either public or private employment. It's still September, so it may not be as bad yet as I made it out to be in the original post, but I'm starting to get 2-3 rejections/day, and it's driving me mad.


It's possible that being open to anything is making your job search harder. You might come across as directionless or not really having an interest in any kind of law. I've had a couple of friends who have had this problems and it sucks because they're incredibly smart and would be awesome candidates but they're not communicating any type of passion or interest. This is obviously more true for public or public interest stuff, but maybe for different kinds of jobs tailor your resume more and try and say that you've really been preparing yourself for that specific type of law.

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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby LawIdiot86 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. T6—that is, CCN—but somewhere lost in the middle of the class. I have a number of federal government internships and other public interest clinics and am open to either public or private employment. It's still September, so it may not be as bad yet as I made it out to be in the original post, but I'm starting to get 2-3 rejections/day, and it's driving me mad.


I'm in similar shoes, I just got my 201st firm rejection of this season. Being around median at a CCN is a very good place to be compared to the alternatives. First question, why not a firm last summer? Second, do the internships, clinics and your classwork build a story? Like, "I took labor law, interned at the NLRB and did an immigration clinic on helping illegal workers get legal status." Third, are the agencies you interned at open to bringing you back as a school-supported fellow after graduation? Fourth, are industries in which you interned or focused your classes (assuming you focused on something) ones with a second or third tier of options (think of NLRB mapping to AFL-CIO/Labor-side firms to state labor board). Fifth, what is your CSO saying? They should be your best friend at this point. Sixth, as others have said, what about state clerkships or PMF?

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Rocío
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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby Rocío » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. T6—that is, CCN—but somewhere lost in the middle of the class. I have a number of federal government internships and other public interest clinics and am open to either public or private employment. It's still September, so it may not be as bad yet as I made it out to be in the original post, but I'm starting to get 2-3 rejections/day, and it's driving me mad.


If you have government and PI stints on your resume, then you should definitely be targeting government and PI jobs in addition to mass mailing/networking for firm jobs. You are late in the game for a lot of federal government jobs, but look at PI fellowship opportunities, and look at state and local government (like: New York City Law Department; Massachusetts Attorney General Honors Program). Your school might even sponsor fellowships for a year - so start contacting PI organizations and government offices you have an interest in, come up with a fellowship proposal, and hustle.

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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby dudders » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am so disheartened ...law school was the biggest mistake I could have done. I hate the job, the people, the process, the everything. We're hopeless and in debt.


this.

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robin600
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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby robin600 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:10 pm

Rocío wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. T6—that is, CCN—but somewhere lost in the middle of the class. I have a number of federal government internships and other public interest clinics and am open to either public or private employment. It's still September, so it may not be as bad yet as I made it out to be in the original post, but I'm starting to get 2-3 rejections/day, and it's driving me mad.


If you have government and PI stints on your resume, then you should definitely be targeting government and PI jobs in addition to mass mailing/networking for firm jobs. You are late in the game for a lot of federal government jobs, but look at PI fellowship opportunities, and look at state and local government (like: New York City Law Department; Massachusetts Attorney General Honors Program). Your school might even sponsor fellowships for a year - so start contacting PI organizations and government offices you have an interest in, come up with a fellowship proposal, and hustle.

+1

Even if you take a PI job and it's not your first choice IBR it for a couple of years then lateral into private practice (probably not biglaw but at least cushy midlaw). Happens a lot especially in secondary markets.

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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:09 pm

i'm median at CCN with only PI/govt summers and no offers to speak of. sometimes i feel really shitty about it, but i enjoyed some of the PI work i did in the summer and am used to being poor and sparsely employed. i came to law school to change this situation, but even if i don't cash in like some of my classmates, at least i spent the past few years learning a new field instead of sitting around and occasionally doing temp work like i was before law school. my plan is to find a PI org to work at in a city i like, and take my school's stipend, do that for a year or however long they want me, and then look for a job again. maybe i'm blindly optimistic, but i feel like after i'm situated in a city, have passed the bar, plus some WE, it might be easier to find SOMETHING.

OP, i think you should get involved with a clinic or intern part time at a non-profit, if you haven't already. i made a lot of connections that way and actually enjoyed the work.

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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:22 am

CCN, top third, all govt jobs, completely lost and hopeless. I also struck out in terms of clerkships. Applying to firms is difficult b/c if they ask why you didn't work for a firm before, hard to come up w/ a good reason beyond the truth that you struck out. Industry focus hasn't worked so well for me, esp since so many of the industries are facing a downturn. Applying to govt and symplicity postings as they come along, but doesn't provide much hope. Know have a fellowship worse case scenario, but the idea of being a welfare case for my school whose prospects may not necessarily improve even after a year of work doesn't sound great either. Hard to maintain the motivation to apply to all these govt jobs before the deadlines hit, esp if they require letters of rec (just discovered that I screwed myself by having so many adjunct professors regardless of performance). Unfortunately, it seems like so many leftover options are potential career suicide, can be hard to figure out why continue trying. Did massive amount of networking and have probably become relatively well known in my field, but it has turned up nothing. Even OCS seems to be washing their hands of us, just waiting for a fellowship to kick in so can count us towards the employed 9 months after graduation stat (I've been going to OCS and even meeting with an outside career person quite consistently, and doesn't seem to be getting anywhere besides throwing more money and time down a hole).

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prezidentv8
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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby prezidentv8 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:33 am

dudders wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am so disheartened ...law school was the biggest mistake I could have done. I hate the job, the people, the process, the everything. We're hopeless and in debt.


this.



Yeah, I vaguely feel this way pretty frequently. It's not actually hopeless though, so you have to keep on trucking.


worldtraveler wrote:It's possible that being open to anything is making your job search harder. You might come across as directionless or not really having an interest in any kind of law. I've had a couple of friends who have had this problems and it sucks because they're incredibly smart and would be awesome candidates but they're not communicating any type of passion or interest. This is obviously more true for public or public interest stuff, but maybe for different kinds of jobs tailor your resume more and try and say that you've really been preparing yourself for that specific type of law.


I feel kind of strongly that this was an issue for me, and frankly I still generally have a problem conveying a specific interest in almost any job. So I think WT is on point. It's a tough issue to deal with, but you have to do your best.

Good luck out there.

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manofjustice
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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby manofjustice » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:55 am

Wow. Just wow.

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thelawyler
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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby thelawyler » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:21 am

manofjustice wrote:Wow. Just wow.

what?

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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby manofjustice » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:32 pm

thelawyler wrote:
manofjustice wrote:Wow. Just wow.

what?


The market is that bad?

With the news that market is down to 145 nationally, it seems like we are getting worse.

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thelawyler
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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby thelawyler » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:05 pm

manofjustice wrote:
thelawyler wrote:
manofjustice wrote:Wow. Just wow.

what?


The market is that bad?

With the news that market is down to 145 nationally, it seems like we are getting worse.


Especially with tuition rising. It is quite ridiculous.

LawIdiot86
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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby LawIdiot86 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:07 pm

manofjustice wrote:
thelawyler wrote:
manofjustice wrote:Wow. Just wow.

what?


The market is that bad?

With the news that market is down to 145 nationally, it seems like we are getting worse.

Yes, the market is that bad. Every jobs I've had has shown the industry is contracting at an insane rate. While the speed of the decline appears slower than 2008 when firms were chopping off limbs, they're still on life support with a fatal prognosis for stability and affluence.

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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:25 pm

T14er here.

1. I was told to hold off applying hardcore until February (for mid-law) by OCS.
2. My friends in big/medium law say that they are seeing a resurgence in real estate transactions resulting in their practice groups being pushed substantially beyond the normal big law workload. (implying they will be expanding soon)
3. We need to band together and regulate the law school industry and curb admissions. Possibly even shut down schools.

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manofjustice
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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby manofjustice » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:T14er here.

1. I was told to hold off applying hardcore until February (for mid-law) by OCS.
2. My friends in big/medium law say that they are seeing a resurgence in real estate transactions resulting in their practice groups being pushed substantially beyond the normal big law workload. (implying they will be expanding soon)
3. We need to band together and regulate the law school industry and curb admissions. Possibly even shut down schools.


TCR. I'm starting a thread.

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Rocío
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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby Rocío » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:CCN, top third, all govt jobs, completely lost and hopeless. I also struck out in terms of clerkships. Applying to firms is difficult b/c if they ask why you didn't work for a firm before, hard to come up w/ a good reason beyond the truth that you struck out. Industry focus hasn't worked so well for me, esp since so many of the industries are facing a downturn. Applying to govt and symplicity postings as they come along, but doesn't provide much hope. Know have a fellowship worse case scenario, but the idea of being a welfare case for my school whose prospects may not necessarily improve even after a year of work doesn't sound great either. Hard to maintain the motivation to apply to all these govt jobs before the deadlines hit, esp if they require letters of rec (just discovered that I screwed myself by having so many adjunct professors regardless of performance). Unfortunately, it seems like so many leftover options are potential career suicide, can be hard to figure out why continue trying. Did massive amount of networking and have probably become relatively well known in my field, but it has turned up nothing. Even OCS seems to be washing their hands of us, just waiting for a fellowship to kick in so can count us towards the employed 9 months after graduation stat (I've been going to OCS and even meeting with an outside career person quite consistently, and doesn't seem to be getting anywhere besides throwing more money and time down a hole).


Look, it sucks out there. I graduated in May and just went through what was a very long and frustrating job cycle, but I made it through and was very happy to have received the offers I did. You need to take a deep breath and not go into self-destruct mode. You have plenty of time to arrange a fellowship or land a local or state government job. But there is no point to wallow in self-pity and give up, in September, unless your goal is to be unemployed. For a lot of talented law students at schools like CCN, this rejection is entirely new for you. But you need to keep things in perspective: you aren't being drafted, you aren't going to prison - you are just graduating in a difficult legal economy. There is IBR, there is loan forgiveness if you spend 10 years in a public interest career - you have options. Legal jobs aren't going to find you - you need to get out there, and network, and spend time every week on your job search.

And if you have government jobs under your belt, get letters of recommendation from your supervisors. Before interviews, have your recommenders call your interviewers to put in a good word for you. You simply need to use your contacts in this economy. Mass mailing is not good enough.

And stop talking with other "oh, woe is me" law students about how fucked you all think you are. I've seen students merely feed into one another's depression and anxiety, and it is not healthy. I'm not trying to be harsh, but I think a lot of law students need someone to shake them and tell them to snap out of it.

LawIdiot86
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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby LawIdiot86 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:12 pm

Rocío wrote:
And stop talking with other "oh, woe is me" law students about how fucked you all think you are. I've seen students merely feed into one another's depression and anxiety, and it is not healthy. I'm not trying to be harsh, but I think a lot of law students need someone to shake them and tell them to snap out of it.

I generally agree, but I found in my own process that assuming the worst helped motivate me to try harder. Imagining that if I didn't do my 20 applications of the day or cold call five alums, I was certain to end up living on the street made me want to try harder just out of fear. Setting up a false dicotomy in my head of specific undesirable job opportunity or abject poverty helped me overcome my pride and get a job to escape the seanse of terror I had set up.

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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:33 am

School's CSO employee sends stock e-mail about "records showing you have not obtained a job, please let me know how I can assist" etc. I respond with what I need help with a week ago. No respone, I get ignored. I love how at least at my school, the dean preaches about going to CSO. Yet, you can't ask them more than two questions in one e-mail if you want an answer to both questions, and they clearly send out these e-mails to say they are trying to help students without actually doing anything.

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Re: 3L Job Search Exhaustion

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:41 am

LawIdiot86 wrote:
manofjustice wrote:
thelawyler wrote:
manofjustice wrote:Wow. Just wow.

what?


The market is that bad?

With the news that market is down to 145 nationally, it seems like we are getting worse.

Yes, the market is that bad. Every jobs I've had has shown the industry is contracting at an insane rate. While the speed of the decline appears slower than 2008 when firms were chopping off limbs, they're still on life support with a fatal prognosis for stability and affluence.


CCN 2L. Yes, the market is that bad. I have quite a few friends with good grades (think top 1/3 and above median) who have completely struck out of OCI. These people are definitely not the socially awkward types too... I also had a friend on LAW REVIEW that nearly struck out. Luckily, a firm he liked pulled through at the very end (but not before every other firm had dinged him).

Market was rough for 2Ls. I can't even imagine how hard it is for 3Ls, but don't lose faith guys!




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