Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby IAFG » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:+1 Re grades.

I'm in a similar boat at a T20 school. Transferred from T2, and my grades weren't quite up to snuff for OCI Big Law.

Still waiting on one more decision after a CB. (4 interviews, 2 CBs, 1 rejection, 1 outstanding).

Still, on the subject of grades. That's what matters now. Making Big Law is still going to be difficult, but not impossible.

I spoke to an alumn who was a partner at a V20 firm, and he basically told me, do well this semester and the next, and I could find you something - it may not be a summer associate, but at least a legal clerkship at his firm.

The road is still tough, but I definitely think we're in a better position than where we used to be. Keep plugging away. Good grades only serve to help the situation. Take advantage of some of the top members of the class slacking off now that they have offers.

...Was the V20 partner a boomer who thinks his firm hires "legal clerks"?? Do you know if that's something that's actually happened in the past decade?

You CANNOT just plug away at grades and hope to gloss over your lack of 2L summer activities with a good showing. This isn't 1L. The 2Ls who relaxed are doing so because they get it.

User avatar
2LsAPlenty
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:20 am

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby 2LsAPlenty » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:48 pm

I am not sure being overly harsh helps. Unfortunately, the market is what it is. Generally only those in the top 5% are going to land Biglaw. However, there are plenty of good mid and small firms jobs and public positions. The competition is significant so you have to take every reasonable action you can to increase your odds. I don't know how many 3Ls don't have good legal paying jobs lined up but my guess is that it is a large percentage of the class.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273601
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:53 pm

IAFG wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:+1 Re grades.

I'm in a similar boat at a T20 school. Transferred from T2, and my grades weren't quite up to snuff for OCI Big Law.

Still waiting on one more decision after a CB. (4 interviews, 2 CBs, 1 rejection, 1 outstanding).

Still, on the subject of grades. That's what matters now. Making Big Law is still going to be difficult, but not impossible.

I spoke to an alumn who was a partner at a V20 firm, and he basically told me, do well this semester and the next, and I could find you something - it may not be a summer associate, but at least a legal clerkship at his firm.

The road is still tough, but I definitely think we're in a better position than where we used to be. Keep plugging away. Good grades only serve to help the situation. Take advantage of some of the top members of the class slacking off now that they have offers.

...Was the V20 partner a boomer who thinks his firm hires "legal clerks"?? Do you know if that's something that's actually happened in the past decade?

You CANNOT just plug away at grades and hope to gloss over your lack of 2L summer activities with a good showing. This isn't 1L. The 2Ls who relaxed are doing so because they get it.


Agreed but especially as a transfer, any future employer is going to want to see grades from the new school that collaborate success at the old school. First priority should definitely be finding a 2L summer gig but OP also should make sure to keep up academic success in case they end up doing PI/Gov job 2L summer.

Gorki
Posts: 772
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Gorki » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:56 pm

IAFG wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:+1 Re grades.

I'm in a similar boat at a T20 school. Transferred from T2, and my grades weren't quite up to snuff for OCI Big Law.

Still waiting on one more decision after a CB. (4 interviews, 2 CBs, 1 rejection, 1 outstanding).

Still, on the subject of grades. That's what matters now. Making Big Law is still going to be difficult, but not impossible.

I spoke to an alumn who was a partner at a V20 firm, and he basically told me, do well this semester and the next, and I could find you something - it may not be a summer associate, but at least a legal clerkship at his firm.

The road is still tough, but I definitely think we're in a better position than where we used to be. Keep plugging away. Good grades only serve to help the situation. Take advantage of some of the top members of the class slacking off now that they have offers.

...Was the V20 partner a boomer who thinks his firm hires "legal clerks"?? Do you know if that's something that's actually happened in the past decade?

You CANNOT just plug away at grades and hope to gloss over your lack of 2L summer activities with a good showing. This isn't 1L. The 2Ls who relaxed are doing so because they get it.


I agree with this. Not to sound like a jerk, anon, but this sounds like bumping into a long-ago acquaintance and saying "Yeah, we totally should plan to have lunch next month" and then you promptly forget about it and move on with your day. You should not rely on this at all and keep on searching.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273601
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:25 pm

Yeah ok bad example. I'm not relying on it. OP needs to get 2L summer employment and good grades. But good grades are necessary, not sufficient.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273601
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:30 pm

OP, I was in your boat last year. Transferred to TI, turned down T14 for personal reasons and because TI was in my home market (in hindsight, bad idea). I struck out at OCI; had a ton of screeners but few call backs. I was able to land a pretty good internship in D.C. over the summer, along with some federal internships during the school year. I am on a journal, albeit, a secondary journal, and am around the top 10% of my class. I have had a few clerkship interviews, but so far I have received no offers. I am, at this point, unemployed come graduation.

My advice, is network and mass-mail. Those are really your only options. With any luck you might be able to get something.

Best of luck.

Skyblaze
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:11 pm

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Skyblaze » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:04 pm

I am in a very similar boat. (Only three callbacks, no dings or offers from those three yet.) Feeling depressed and miss my old school as well. PM me if you want to talk about it.

User avatar
ryanmot
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:09 pm

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby ryanmot » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OCI at my new school (T1) did not go as planned. I received way fewer callbacks than expected (3), and they have long since passed. I have not received formal dings but I am resigned to the fact that I have struck out at OCI and the entire point of me transferring did not pan through.

Because of this, I am starting to become seriously "meh" about school. I'm skipping classes when I barely missed any last year. I haven't been keeping up with the readings at all. I have not even ordered supplements yet, and I know I need them for two of my classes (professors don't explain anything). Ya, I know this is considered "normal" 2L behavior, but since I struck out, I know I need to be doing more.

To top it off, I honestly just miss my old school. If I could go back and do it over again, I'd stay 10/10 times. I miss my apartment (and former roommate), I miss the city, and I really miss the friends I made at school. Combine this with what's described in the preceding paragraph and you'll understand why I'm writing this post at 3:00 in the morning.

Anyway, I'm really not looking for too deep of psychological help here. I've never had any serious mental health issues and I'm usually an upbeat girl. I'm what I would call "temporarily depressed" because I'm having a ridiculously hard time seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

So, what I'm looking for here is advice on how to still achieve Big/Mid Law. I haven't completely given up hope yet. I know I want to work in a big firm. I'm willing to do whatever it takes. I'm going to "reset" this weekend and get at it starting Monday.

So what can I do? Is it too late to mass mail? Should I be contacting attorneys at firms that are coming to Spring OCI? Should I focus on grades like I did 1L and absolutely pray to get hired as a 3L?


You have a 0.0 gpa right now. Go into your classes and kill it. Then go for clerkships with your great class rank/gpa at a T1. That is your best path to biglaw.

User avatar
2LsAPlenty
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:20 am

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby 2LsAPlenty » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:15 am

Hmmm, all these comments and no OP.

Myself
Posts: 1372
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:36 pm

.

Postby Myself » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:19 am

.
Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
dood
Posts: 1639
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:59 am

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby dood » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:08 am

i was depressed as fuk 2 semester of 1L year. i went to see my schools counseling center and saw a shrink, joined a law student "support group". it made the difference between dropping out (and who knows what), to what i have now, which is living the dream (multiple jerb offers, awesome friends, dating girl im gonna marry).

no stigma anymore, see e.g. ron artest

PM me if u want to talk...u mention missing old city, old friends, regretting transfer, etc - which means u need life advice, not "how to do well in law school" advice.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273601
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:24 am

OP here...thanks for all the comments and advice.

After reading the advice on here, talking to my CSO, and talking with some 3L's and current lawyers, my strategy/goal going forward is two-fold:

(1) Aiming for a clerkship is the best option to get into BigLaw. My CSO said that chances of BigLaw in the markets I want (Midwest) are basically gone, as she knows that much of the classes are already full.

(2) Because of #1, I'm going to focus really hard on grades. I'm going to be striving for clerk grades in my 2L the same way I aimed for top OCI grades during 1L.

I now feel like I have a really high bar to shoot for. Time to hit the books.

Thanks for all the advice in this thread.

User avatar
ryanmot
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:09 pm

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby ryanmot » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here...thanks for all the comments and advice.

After reading the advice on here, talking to my CSO, and talking with some 3L's and current lawyers, my strategy/goal going forward is two-fold:

(1) Aiming for a clerkship is the best option to get into BigLaw. My CSO said that chances of BigLaw in the markets I want (Midwest) are basically gone, as she knows that much of the classes are already full.

(2) Because of #1, I'm going to focus really hard on grades. I'm going to be striving for clerk grades in my 2L the same way I aimed for top OCI grades during 1L.

I now feel like I have a really high bar to shoot for. Time to hit the books.

Thanks for all the advice in this thread.


Good luck! You've got the right approach. You have a clean slate and by next summer you can have a terrific class rank going into the Clerkship application process.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273601
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:32 pm

In similar position to OP and also gunning to clerk, how big a hurdle is no LR at new school?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273601
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:In similar position to OP and also gunning to clerk, how big a hurdle is no LR at new school?

OP here...I'm on a secondary journal, and because of this, I think it's damn near a requirement that I get published and get on the board for 3L.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273601
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:33 pm

Transferred from T1 to MVP and struck out with large NY firms (>20 screeners, 3 CBs, 0 offers. Yikes). Yes, apparently, it happens. I just finished sending out a batch of mass mails to my home state. Here's how I see it:

1. If I get an SA position from one of the smaller, home-state firms I've mailed, then do that, hope to get an offer, and enjoy my life in my home state.
2. If I don't get any play from these mails, do whatever the hell I can to snag something at a firm.
3. If I can't end up with a firm, look to either intern for a kick-ass judge or do some preftigious public interest (whatever the hell that is)
4. Get published on my secondary journal and/or figure out a way to otherwise academically distinguish myself
5. Get straight As, so I can apply for entry-level positions and clerkships and be able to say: "listen: kicked butt wherever I've gone."

User avatar
somewhatwayward
Posts: 1446
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:10 pm

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby somewhatwayward » Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:In similar position to OP and also gunning to clerk, how big a hurdle is no LR at new school?

OP here...I'm on a secondary journal, and because of this, I think it's damn near a requirement that I get published and get on the board for 3L.


Yeah, I mean, no LR does hurt to some extent, but if you were invited at your old school, put that on your resume, and as OP noted, gun for the e-board ad getting published in the secondary journal. It is easier to get published than it might sound. First, a lot of people don't take the note-writing process very seriously, so if you do a good job, you are already distinguishing your note. Second, if your journal does not pick it up, send it off to every other law journal it could be published in.

If you are worried about having enough time to do an excellent job on your note, look into whether your school will let you get supervised research and writing credit for it. Also, put the time in over winter break. Good luck!

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby IAFG » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here...thanks for all the comments and advice.

After reading the advice on here, talking to my CSO, and talking with some 3L's and current lawyers, my strategy/goal going forward is two-fold:

(1) Aiming for a clerkship is the best option to get into BigLaw. My CSO said that chances of BigLaw in the markets I want (Midwest) are basically gone, as she knows that much of the classes are already full.

(2) Because of #1, I'm going to focus really hard on grades. I'm going to be striving for clerk grades in my 2L the same way I aimed for top OCI grades during 1L.

I now feel like I have a really high bar to shoot for. Time to hit the books.

Thanks for all the advice in this thread.

And what will you wish you had done if you don't get a clerkship?

auds1008
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:57 am

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby auds1008 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:50 pm

i think another thing you can and want to do is establish a relationship with a or multiple professors in your desired practice areas. A lot of time firms look for law clerks or temporary positions to work for them during school time and they ask the professors if they know anyone who is looking for a position rather than posting them on Symplicity or related job boards. This might be an alternative.

keg411
Posts: 5935
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby keg411 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:51 pm

IAFG wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here...thanks for all the comments and advice.

After reading the advice on here, talking to my CSO, and talking with some 3L's and current lawyers, my strategy/goal going forward is two-fold:

(1) Aiming for a clerkship is the best option to get into BigLaw. My CSO said that chances of BigLaw in the markets I want (Midwest) are basically gone, as she knows that much of the classes are already full.

(2) Because of #1, I'm going to focus really hard on grades. I'm going to be striving for clerk grades in my 2L the same way I aimed for top OCI grades during 1L.

I now feel like I have a really high bar to shoot for. Time to hit the books.

Thanks for all the advice in this thread.

And what will you wish you had done if you don't get a clerkship?


I actually agree with IAFG. OP, you really should be hustling to pick up some kind of firm job now, even if it isn't BigLaw. Because there is always the possibility you won't get the grades for an A3 clerkship, and seriously, what % of of your T1 even gets them?

Sure, you can work all you want and hope the clerkship thing happens, but you really need a backup plan and you really need to start putting in into place ASAP.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273601
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:06 pm

Your CSO shouldn't tell you to give up on NLJ 250 firms. Secondary markets are just starting to give out offers...send out mass mails. And I don't mean like 10 or 20, I mean 150.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby IAFG » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Your CSO shouldn't tell you to give up on NLJ 250 firms. Secondary markets are just starting to give out offers...send out mass mails. And I don't mean like 10 or 20, I mean 150.

People I've been advising on mass mailing have been getting interviews in the past week.

User avatar
jessuf
Posts: 12586
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:27 pm

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby jessuf » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:36 am

I'm a transfer and struck out too, OP. you're not alone. I already mass mailed all big, mid, and small law firms in a few different regions. Guess I will be hitting up some regions I have no ties to this weekend.

I have no idea how realistic clerkships are for transfer students. I would love to do one, but I just don't see it as being realistic given that I am a transfer.

User avatar
Lasers
Posts: 1576
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:46 pm

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Lasers » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:04 am

Jessuf wrote:I'm a transfer and struck out too, OP. you're not alone. I already mass mailed all big, mid, and small law firms in a few different regions. Guess I will be hitting up some regions I have no ties to this weekend.

I have no idea how realistic clerkships are for transfer students. I would love to do one, but I just don't see it as being realistic given that I am a transfer.

about to join the group as well as soon as i get my last post-CB ding next week.

lost motivation too, though i'm quickly finding that i'm not so much depressed as i am angry...which is helping me get re-motivated. planning on actually being productive this weekend.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273601
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:14 am

somewhatwayward wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:In similar position to OP and also gunning to clerk, how big a hurdle is no LR at new school?

OP here...I'm on a secondary journal, and because of this, I think it's damn near a requirement that I get published and get on the board for 3L.


Yeah, I mean, no LR does hurt to some extent, but if you were invited at your old school, put that on your resume, and as OP noted, gun for the e-board ad getting published in the secondary journal. It is easier to get published than it might sound. First, a lot of people don't take the note-writing process very seriously, so if you do a good job, you are already distinguishing your note. Second, if your journal does not pick it up, send it off to every other law journal it could be published in.

If you are worried about having enough time to do an excellent job on your note, look into whether your school will let you get supervised research and writing credit for it. Also, put the time in over winter break. Good luck!


As someone who missed LR, remember that (for all the top schools I know) it's free to submit articles on expresso. I did this earlier this year, after having my research rejected as a note at my LS, and ended up with several offers to publish the piece as an Article in journals at other schools. If you're thinking about trying to publish, don't give up on doing so at other institutions: getting my paper published as an Article has opened a shit-ton of doors for me, in terms of both clerking and firms, that I didn't think would be available.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.