Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

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Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:12 am

OCI at my new school (T1) did not go as planned. I received way fewer callbacks than expected (3), and they have long since passed. I have not received formal dings but I am resigned to the fact that I have struck out at OCI and the entire point of me transferring did not pan through.

Because of this, I am starting to become seriously "meh" about school. I'm skipping classes when I barely missed any last year. I haven't been keeping up with the readings at all. I have not even ordered supplements yet, and I know I need them for two of my classes (professors don't explain anything). Ya, I know this is considered "normal" 2L behavior, but since I struck out, I know I need to be doing more.

To top it off, I honestly just miss my old school. If I could go back and do it over again, I'd stay 10/10 times. I miss my apartment (and former roommate), I miss the city, and I really miss the friends I made at school. Combine this with what's described in the preceding paragraph and you'll understand why I'm writing this post at 3:00 in the morning.

Anyway, I'm really not looking for too deep of psychological help here. I've never had any serious mental health issues and I'm usually an upbeat girl. I'm what I would call "temporarily depressed" because I'm having a ridiculously hard time seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

So, what I'm looking for here is advice on how to still achieve Big/Mid Law. I haven't completely given up hope yet. I know I want to work in a big firm. I'm willing to do whatever it takes. I'm going to "reset" this weekend and get at it starting Monday.

So what can I do? Is it too late to mass mail? Should I be contacting attorneys at firms that are coming to Spring OCI? Should I focus on grades like I did 1L and absolutely pray to get hired as a 3L?

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:OCI at my new school (T1) did not go as planned. I received way fewer callbacks than expected (3), and they have long since passed. I have not received formal dings but I am resigned to the fact that I have struck out at OCI and the entire point of me transferring did not pan through.

Because of this, I am starting to become seriously "meh" about school. I'm skipping classes when I barely missed any last year. I haven't been keeping up with the readings at all. I have not even ordered supplements yet, and I know I need them for two of my classes (professors don't explain anything). Ya, I know this is considered "normal" 2L behavior, but since I struck out, I know I need to be doing more.

To top it off, I honestly just miss my old school. If I could go back and do it over again, I'd stay 10/10 times. I miss my apartment (and former roommate), I miss the city, and I really miss the friends I made at school. Combine this with what's described in the preceding paragraph and you'll understand why I'm writing this post at 3:00 in the morning.

Anyway, I'm really not looking for too deep of psychological help here. I've never had any serious mental health issues and I'm usually an upbeat girl. I'm what I would call "temporarily depressed" because I'm having a ridiculously hard time seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

So, what I'm looking for here is advice on how to still achieve Big/Mid Law. I haven't completely given up hope yet. I know I want to work in a big firm. I'm willing to do whatever it takes. I'm going to "reset" this weekend and get at it starting Monday.

So what can I do? Is it too late to mass mail? Should I be contacting attorneys at firms that are coming to Spring OCI? Should I focus on grades like I did 1L and absolutely pray to get hired as a 3L?


Focus on grades, talk to CSO, and stay positive. If you go down, go down with a smile on your face. All you can do is try your best. Things will be okay in the end. Mass mail smaller-mid size firms, especially in a secondary market if you have ties. Talk to everyone you know. Keep your eyes and ears open. You have a better resume name now and I hear that there will be vacancies. Tell CSO, so if a firm underperforms their offers maybe they will take you.

Plus, its never over. You have 3L. You could always try to clerk to buy time. Stay positive. Getting negative will really doom you.

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:OCI at my new school (T1) did not go as planned. I received way fewer callbacks than expected (3), and they have long since passed. I have not received formal dings but I am resigned to the fact that I have struck out at OCI and the entire point of me transferring did not pan through.

Because of this, I am starting to become seriously "meh" about school. I'm skipping classes when I barely missed any last year. I haven't been keeping up with the readings at all. I have not even ordered supplements yet, and I know I need them for two of my classes (professors don't explain anything). Ya, I know this is considered "normal" 2L behavior, but since I struck out, I know I need to be doing more.

To top it off, I honestly just miss my old school. If I could go back and do it over again, I'd stay 10/10 times. I miss my apartment (and former roommate), I miss the city, and I really miss the friends I made at school. Combine this with what's described in the preceding paragraph and you'll understand why I'm writing this post at 3:00 in the morning.

Anyway, I'm really not looking for too deep of psychological help here. I've never had any serious mental health issues and I'm usually an upbeat girl. I'm what I would call "temporarily depressed" because I'm having a ridiculously hard time seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

So, what I'm looking for here is advice on how to still achieve Big/Mid Law. I haven't completely given up hope yet. I know I want to work in a big firm. I'm willing to do whatever it takes. I'm going to "reset" this weekend and get at it starting Monday.

So what can I do? Is it too late to mass mail? Should I be contacting attorneys at firms that are coming to Spring OCI? Should I focus on grades like I did 1L and absolutely pray to get hired as a 3L?


Get good grades on the transcript of the school you transferred to. After that, mass mail.
2L summer position, while important, is not the end of the world. Transfer students from what I can see are surely disadvantaged for 2L OCI except perhaps at the top few schools. Focus on classes for at least a sem and then put more effort into the job hunt. Good luck. You'll be fine.

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IAFG
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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby IAFG » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:49 am

Focus on grades


Anonymous User wrote:Get good grades on the transcript of the school you transferred to. After that, mass mail.
2L summer position, while important, is not the end of the world. Transfer students from what I can see are surely disadvantaged for 2L OCI except perhaps at the top few schools. Focus on classes for at least a sem and then put more effort into the job hunt.

Oof that is bad advice. Now is the time to work on massmailing, hustling and back up planning. Throwing yourself at school is an ostrich solution.

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby LazinessPerSe » Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:54 am

IAFG wrote:
Focus on grades


Anonymous User wrote:Get good grades on the transcript of the school you transferred to. After that, mass mail.
2L summer position, while important, is not the end of the world. Transfer students from what I can see are surely disadvantaged for 2L OCI except perhaps at the top few schools. Focus on classes for at least a sem and then put more effort into the job hunt.

Oof that is bad advice. Now is the time to work on massmailing, hustling and back up planning. Throwing yourself at school is an ostrich solution.


Do both. Hustle your ass off mass-mailing and treat school like it's 1L all over again. Most people don't actually get jobs through OCI these days, so there's no sense in beating yourself up over having to hustle/mass-mail. If you only came to law school for BigLaw, then you need to start making moves mass-mailing or having a back-up plan now.

Oh, and go to bar review. Play in an intramural league. Say hello to someone sitting next to you. Find a way to make friends where you are - it'll make the transition a lot easier.

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby keg411 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:11 am

I hate the be the bearer of bad news, OP, but you said you transferred to a T1 right? You do realize that a lot of T1's don't place very well in BigLaw among native students -- and if your 1L grades weren't good enough to get you into a T14, your grades may not have been good enough for BigLaw. Sure, there are transfers into non-T14's that end up getting BigLaw, but they're the exception, not the rule. IMO, this is why I recommend that if you're transferring for BigLaw, you don't go outside of the T14 unless you have a market-related reason (and even GULC is iffy as all get out).

If I were you, I'd continue to mass mail -- especially to midsized firms in your home market -- but you really need to have a back up plan at this point. Talking to your CSO is a good idea as they might have some advice and probably have a good idea of what transfers have done in the past.

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:41 am

OP here...

Keg, I had the grades to transfer to a T14. I transferred here because it is the best school in my home market. I already have ties here. I really had no interest in transferring to a T14.

To the others, which is it? Should I be focusing on grades or continuing to "hustle"? It seems way too late to hustle for the smaller markets I'm targeting (Midwest).

Thanks...

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Gorki » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:21 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here...

Keg, I had the grades to transfer to a T14. I transferred here because it is the best school in my home market. I already have ties here. I really had no interest in transferring to a T14.

To the others, which is it? Should I be focusing on grades or continuing to "hustle"? It seems way too late to hustle for the smaller markets I'm targeting (Midwest).

Thanks...


Hustling does not always mean mass-mailing. Try going to bar association meetings, section meetings that interest you in particular. IMO AVOID any 'networking' events planned by your school, they are almost always going to be 30-40 law students gathered around attorneys who are only there for the free food/drinks and rarely give a damn about you as a person. When you mass mail, focus on applying to every place you can. Most firms I contact are just strapped for cash right now (especially the smaller non-NALPs). Thus its not a matter of crafting the 'perfect' cover letter or anything, just the matter of having your resume on a ton of hiring committee desks.

OP I think you are just having a bout of buyer's remorse. Maybe other school had a huge scholly for you and this one doesn't? Either way, the worst thing you can do is criticize a decision you made months ago. It sounds like you are not doing much to fix the problem. Do you know nobody in this area at all? Maybe go on a hike/bike/motorcycle/etc trip this weekend and spend that time clearing your head instead of beating yourself up. You can still get a legal job. Best of luck.

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby 2LsAPlenty » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:16 am

What part of the Midwest? Or, send me a PM if you want and depending on the area, I might be able to give the names of some people to contact.

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:28 am

You should focus on grades and focus on hustling.

Have you ever used martindale.com? Go on there and search alumni from your law school in your city. Pick the ones from firms that you like and e-mail them saying that you are from x school and if their firm is hiring summer associates that you'd be interested in applying for such a position.

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby RodneyBoonfield » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:28 am

^ accidental anon

Paul Campos
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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Paul Campos » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:34 am

PM me if you want my perspective on your situation.

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby keg411 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here...

Keg, I had the grades to transfer to a T14. I transferred here because it is the best school in my home market. I already have ties here. I really had no interest in transferring to a T14.

To the others, which is it? Should I be focusing on grades or continuing to "hustle"? It seems way too late to hustle for the smaller markets I'm targeting (Midwest).

Thanks...


Okay, well, then if you're where you want to be location-wise, I agree you need to do two things: 1) make sure you get good grades so that you have a crack at top clerkships; and 2) listen to the poster who said to go to bar association meetings/make connections with attorneys in your market. I hate to break it to you, but your best bet at this point is smaller/midsized firms unless you get high enough grades to qualify you for a clerkship.

However, that still doesn't mean you're going to get BigLaw. Your school may just not place enough people in BigLaw and like you said, you were only able to get three interviews, which is very few (especially if you mean those were only your OCI pre-selects and not CB's). Additionally, your midwest market may only have a handful of jobs available and you are competing with the top people at your school as well as with T14 people who also have connections to your home market.

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:27 am

keg411 wrote:Okay, well, then if you're where you want to be location-wise, I agree you need to do two things: 1) make sure you get good grades so that you have a crack at top clerkships; and 2) listen to the poster who said to go to bar association meetings/make connections with attorneys in your market. I hate to break it to you, but your best bet at this point is smaller/midsized firms unless you get high enough grades to qualify you for a clerkship.

However, that still doesn't mean you're going to get BigLaw. Your school may just not place enough people in BigLaw and like you said, you were only able to get three interviews, which is very few (especially if you mean those were only your OCI pre-selects and not CB's). Additionally, your midwest market may only have a handful of jobs available and you are competing with the top people at your school as well as with T14 people who also have connections to your home market.

OP...thanks for the advice. In regards to only 3 interviews, those were 3 callbacks. I only had 6 screeners (missed some firms that came to OCI before I officially transferred, others were lottery) so going 3/6 isn't all that bad. The firms I got a callback from all took very highly ranked kids at my new school. I don't think it was an interview thing, I think it was a "this girl has a blank slate, so we'll take the kids who have the grades."

I know big firms rarely hire rising 3L's. But what can I do right now (and throughout this year and upcoming summer) to get on their radar aside from getting top grades? Should I be contacting alums at the firm to let them know about my situation? Talk to recruiting coordinators at these firms? Talk to my CSO?

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Gorki » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:34 am

You could try to contact alums, but I would definitely consult CSO first. Sometimes they can hook you up with firm alums that are friendly with the school and current students. The last thing you want is to contact an alum who does not really care about their LS and just thinks you are pestering them.

Try moot courts, secondary journals, etc. Anything to spruce up your resume and show you are becoming a part of the school. This will help you buck off the outsider/transfer image that many transfers seem to get stuck with.

The truth is maybe nobody at your new school outside the top of the class got anything out of OCI. It may have nothing to do with you being a transfer. OCI at many places was not so good this year. Firms are not hiring large classes, and this may just be the way things are for at least the short term.

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Bronte » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:40 am

IAFG wrote:
Focus on grades


Anonymous User wrote:Get good grades on the transcript of the school you transferred to. After that, mass mail.
2L summer position, while important, is not the end of the world. Transfer students from what I can see are surely disadvantaged for 2L OCI except perhaps at the top few schools. Focus on classes for at least a sem and then put more effort into the job hunt.

Oof that is bad advice. Now is the time to work on massmailing, hustling and back up planning. Throwing yourself at school is an ostrich solution.


There's a good chance she'll end up in the 3L hiring market, so she really shouldn't bomb 2L year. She needs to get back in a normal academic routine (i.e., reading, going to class, etc.) and make a big push on the job search front.

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby keg411 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:45 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP...thanks for the advice. In regards to only 3 interviews, those were 3 callbacks. I only had 6 screeners (missed some firms that came to OCI before I officially transferred, others were lottery) so going 3/6 isn't all that bad. The firms I got a callback from all took very highly ranked kids at my new school. I don't think it was an interview thing, I think it was a "this girl has a blank slate, so we'll take the kids who have the grades."

I know big firms rarely hire rising 3L's. But what can I do right now (and throughout this year and upcoming summer) to get on their radar aside from getting top grades? Should I be contacting alums at the firm to let them know about my situation? Talk to recruiting coordinators at these firms? Talk to my CSO?


Oh, I never figured it was an interview thing. I just figured it was a "at X T1, we only hire the top 10-15% of the class" thing, and as a transfer, you didn't meet what they were looking for. Also, I don't know how much help talking to alums/recruiting will be in firms you've already been rejected from, but at places where your resume is still outstanding and you haven't heard anything, it still may be helpful for getting a job this year. Additionally, it's an excellent idea for smaller/midsized firms that have yet to hire anyone for 2L, but plan to (or would consider it if the right candidate came along).

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby northwood » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:51 am

Forget big law and foxy on small/ mi law. Go to class establish a rapport with profs( to use as job connections) go to career services. Your plan b is now ur plan a and h need to maximize ur time and efforts at grades and networking. I'm in the same boat op(except I didn't do oci). Additionally talk to ur summer employer for networking reasons/ recommendations. As hard as it is keep ur chin up and focus on identifying firms and applying there and getting ready for finals... Don't think further than December right now.

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby northwood » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:56 am

It's perfect normal to miss your old school. That's because 1l provides a security blanket of the same ppl in all of your classes. Now it's just like any other post high school experience in that you have to work a bit more to make friends.. If you want to that is. But don't worry about that meeting ppl takes time and that will occur too... Hakuna matada my Internet friend, for at least you are in a good school in your home market( where I presume you want to work). Use that when you apply.

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby IAFG » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:00 pm

Bronte wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Focus on grades


Anonymous User wrote:Get good grades on the transcript of the school you transferred to. After that, mass mail.
2L summer position, while important, is not the end of the world. Transfer students from what I can see are surely disadvantaged for 2L OCI except perhaps at the top few schools. Focus on classes for at least a sem and then put more effort into the job hunt.

Oof that is bad advice. Now is the time to work on massmailing, hustling and back up planning. Throwing yourself at school is an ostrich solution.


There's a good chance she'll end up in the 3L hiring market, so she really shouldn't bomb 2L year. She needs to get back in a normal academic routine (i.e., reading, going to class, etc.) and make a big push on the job search front.

You'll note I focused on the recommendations to wait. Both were pretty clearly advocating throwing herself at school. It's one I've watched totally fuck more than one person.

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby kwais » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here...

Keg, I had the grades to transfer to a T14. I transferred here because it is the best school in my home market. I already have ties here. I really had no interest in transferring to a T14.

To the others, which is it? Should I be focusing on grades or continuing to "hustle"? It seems way too late to hustle for the smaller markets I'm targeting (Midwest).

Thanks...


hey OP, sorry to hear you are having trouble. I do have one, slightly critical question. What does it mean that you "had no interest in a T14?" Do you think that all of us up to our eyes in debt, who turned down large scholarships, had some sort of "interest" in the T14 unrelated to job prospects? It seems strange and entitled to now lament your lack of biglaw but say you have no interest in the schools that feed into biglaw? Can you help me understand something I may be missing?

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:12 pm

One thing I would add to this thread for future students' reference is that, if you're going to transfer, transfer to at least one of the best ranked schools you can. I was top 5% T30 and transferred to a T20 for regional reasons, and I really think it didn't help me. I think screeners, approaching the prospect of seeing so many students in a day, are lazy about looking up the rank of transfer students' previous schools or trying to gauge what their cutoffs would be at that school. Most, I think, will assume that if you transferred to that school, it was the best you could get into. I even had one screener straight up tell me he had never heard of my school, which means he probably assumed it was a TTTT. Also, I found that as a group, all transfers seem to have done very similarly, regardless of whether they barely got in or transferred for personal reasons. Needless to say, I haven't talked to everyone who transferred so take that with a grain of salt.

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Bronte » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:14 pm

IAFG wrote:
Bronte wrote:There's a good chance she'll end up in the 3L hiring market, so she really shouldn't bomb 2L year. She needs to get back in a normal academic routine (i.e., reading, going to class, etc.) and make a big push on the job search front.

You'll note I focused on the recommendations to wait. Both were pretty clearly advocating throwing herself at school. It's one I've watched totally fuck more than one person.


I gotcha. Yes, I would not wait on the job search.

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:16 pm

+1 Re grades.

I'm in a similar boat at a T20 school. Transferred from T2, and my grades weren't quite up to snuff for OCI Big Law.

Still waiting on one more decision after a CB. (4 interviews, 2 CBs, 1 rejection, 1 outstanding).

Still, on the subject of grades. That's what matters now. Making Big Law is still going to be difficult, but not impossible.

I spoke to an alumn who was a partner at a V20 firm, and he basically told me, do well this semester and the next, and I could find you something - it may not be a summer associate, but at least a legal clerkship at his firm.

The road is still tough, but I definitely think we're in a better position than where we used to be. Keep plugging away. Good grades only serve to help the situation. Take advantage of some of the top members of the class slacking off now that they have offers.

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Re: Transfer, Struck Out, Depressed, and Need Advice

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:One thing I would add to this thread for future students' reference is that, if you're going to transfer, transfer to at least one of the best ranked schools you can. I was top 5% T30 and transferred to a T20 for regional reasons, and I really think it didn't help me. I think screeners, approaching the prospect of seeing so many students in a day, are lazy about looking up the rank of transfer students' previous schools or trying to gauge what their cutoffs would be at that school. Most, I think, will assume that if you transferred to that school, it was the best you could get into. I even had one screener straight up tell me he had never heard of my school, which means he probably assumed it was a TTTT. Also, I found that as a group, all transfers seem to have done very similarly, regardless of whether they barely got in or transferred for personal reasons. Needless to say, I haven't talked to everyone who transferred so take that with a grain of salt.



Interesting discussion in this thread for future students. I'm also a transfer (T30 - top 10% to CCN) and I agree that transferring can look very different at different schools. I know I heard through the grapevine that OCS noticed that people who transferred from closer ranked schools (eg. T14 to CCN) actually fared WORSE than those who transferred from say T2 to CCN. Why that is, I can't really say but it was an interesting (anecdotal) data point. My guess would be that top 1% at a T2 looks more plainly impressive than top 20% at a T14. I know I definitely missed out on certain firms by transferring but I also have an offer from a firm that straight out didn't interview at my old school so its kind of a wash.

As to the OP, I'm sorry you're struggling fellow transfer friend. My advice would be to focus on the things that you enjoyed 1L (academic complexity of the law, exploring a new city, meeting new people, etc.) and also hustle on that mass mailing. You're smart and motivated enough to kick ass at your old school so don't forget how awesome you are!

Also I too miss my friends at my old school. I know this will sound weird but try hanging out with the 1Ls and other transfers. I live with 1Ls currently and we're all in the new place boat together.

Stay strong, you'll get through this.




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