Is V&E Underrated?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am still choosing a firm, and I've basically narrowed it down to a V10 and Vinson & Elkins with a couple other options further behind. I thought the V10 was okay, but I really liked the people I met at V&E and the summers I know who worked there last year said a lot of great things about it. It seems like they do a lot of huge, high profile deals on a regular basis, and they generally seem to be considered the best firm in their home state of Texas. They also seem to be more concerned with fit than some of the other firms I interviewed at, so I liked the culture.

My gut is to go with V&E, but their Vault ranking is somewhere in the 50s. I'm looking to do capital markets and M&A work, and I know Chambers rates their corporate work in Band 1 in multiple states. How much should the Vault ranking factor into this decision? Is there anything I should know about V&E that I'm not seeing? It seems like Chambers has a little bit of a better grip on reality than Vault, but I know that prestige seems to matter sometimes and that is generally based on Vault. Any guidance would be really helpful.


You're right about V&E's deal work and emphasis on culture/fit. Houston is a great city (dining, sports, music, theater) with a strong economy and low cost of living. If you're dead-set on NYC, then choose the V-10 firm. Otherwise, you wouldn't be foolish to choose V&E.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:T-14, top 15%, LR.

Just chose V&E Htown over BB Htown and a 3 NYC V25 firm offers, including 1 V5. Hard decision, but when it comes down to it, OP, the money goes farther in Texas and the people in all areas at V&E are phenomenal (granted some groups do seem a little more "fratty" than others).

I have to admit though, the most surprising part of the OCI process was how assbergery the people at BB Htown were. I had a dinner and CB with BB people and EVERY SINGLE conversation seemed forced. Seriously, like how does that firm get business?


That was a wise move. STB and Skadden are clear choices but I still think Latham offers less, all things considered, than V&E for a first year.

As for BB getting business, they're getting less of it, at least in Texas.

User avatar
somewhatwayward
Posts: 1446
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:10 pm

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby somewhatwayward » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:T-14, top 15%, LR.

Just chose V&E Htown over BB Htown and a 3 NYC V25 firm offers, including 1 V5. Hard decision, but when it comes down to it, OP, the money goes farther in Texas and the people in all areas at V&E are phenomenal (granted some groups do seem a little more "fratty" than others).

I have to admit though, the most surprising part of the OCI process was how assbergery the people at BB Htown were. I had a dinner and CB with BB people and EVERY SINGLE conversation seemed forced. Seriously, like how does that firm get business?


That was a wise move. STB and Skadden are clear choices but I still think Latham offers less, all things considered, than V&E for a first year.

As for BB getting business, they're getting less of it, at least in Texas.


I am confused by what you mean by the bolded part. If Skadden and STB are "clear choices," don't you mean he have taken the NYC V5? Or do you mean Skadden in Houston? Just to be clear, I think choosing a good TX firm if you are okay with staying in TX long-term over a NYC V5 is a smart move. Most of us don't have the TX ties to get an offer from a good TX firm, though.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:43 am

somewhatwayward wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:T-14, top 15%, LR.

Just chose V&E Htown over BB Htown and a 3 NYC V25 firm offers, including 1 V5. Hard decision, but when it comes down to it, OP, the money goes farther in Texas and the people in all areas at V&E are phenomenal (granted some groups do seem a little more "fratty" than others).

I have to admit though, the most surprising part of the OCI process was how assbergery the people at BB Htown were. I had a dinner and CB with BB people and EVERY SINGLE conversation seemed forced. Seriously, like how does that firm get business?


That was a wise move. STB and Skadden are clear choices but I still think Latham offers less, all things considered, than V&E for a first year.

As for BB getting business, they're getting less of it, at least in Texas.


I am confused by what you mean by the bolded part. If Skadden and STB are "clear choices," don't you mean he have taken the NYC V5? Or do you mean Skadden in Houston? Just to be clear, I think choosing a good TX firm if you are okay with staying in TX long-term over a NYC V5 is a smart move. Most of us don't have the TX ties to get an offer from a good TX firm, though.


Invent an invisible girlfriend from Houston dude

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:00 am

somewhatwayward wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:T-14, top 15%, LR.

Just chose V&E Htown over BB Htown and a 3 NYC V25 firm offers, including 1 V5. Hard decision, but when it comes down to it, OP, the money goes farther in Texas and the people in all areas at V&E are phenomenal (granted some groups do seem a little more "fratty" than others).

I have to admit though, the most surprising part of the OCI process was how assbergery the people at BB Htown were. I had a dinner and CB with BB people and EVERY SINGLE conversation seemed forced. Seriously, like how does that firm get business?


That was a wise move. STB and Skadden are clear choices but I still think Latham offers less, all things considered, than V&E for a first year.

As for BB getting business, they're getting less of it, at least in Texas.


I am confused by what you mean by the bolded part. If Skadden and STB are "clear choices," don't you mean he have taken the NYC V5? Or do you mean Skadden in Houston? Just to be clear, I think choosing a good TX firm if you are okay with staying in TX long-term over a NYC V5 is a smart move. Most of us don't have the TX ties to get an offer from a good TX firm, though.


I meant they are clear choices, in that it should be clear that going to V&E over them (if you want to be in Houston) is a better career move. Latham is the only national satellite in Houston that presents a compelling argument for choosing them over V&E (I still wouldn't, but it's a compelling argument nonetheless).

Rereading the OP's post, though, makes me realize I misunderstood what he meant. I thought he picked V&E over V25 satellites, but it seems he meant V25 NYC offices. Either way, if he wants to stay in Texas, it was a good career move.

005618502
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:56 pm

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby 005618502 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Can you discuss Dallas?

That was a very helpful discussion.


Here we go.

First, I want to note that this analysis relates solely to transactional work. Litigation is an entirely different ballgame - if you would like to see that analysis, I can do a cursory one, but it won't be nearly as informed. Also, I think the analysis of transactional work in Dallas is easiest when grouped into three categories (National Satellites, Houston Satellites, and Dallas-based Firms), so that's what I've done. Not everyone is the same, so every person's analysis should be different, especially when it comes to culture decisions - rumor on the street is that some people actually like BB Houston's culture.

1. National Satellites:

Top Tier:
Weil – great work, top of the market pay, some difficult personalities, no partnership chances, long hours (but I’ve heard that the hours are actually a little better than JD), has maintained its size over the past few years, the best national name recognition
Jones Day – great work, pay is no better than BigTex firms, some very difficult partners (in the capital markets group, not the m&a group), no partnership chances, very very long hours, the biggest corporate group among the national satellites (but the office as a whole has shed about 50 lawyers (or 25%) in 4 years), great name recognition if you aren’t sure about staying in Dallas long-term
Gibson Dunn – good work, top of the market pay, hours aren’t bad, mostly good people (with one notable exception among the corporate partners), no partnership chances

Lower Tier:
K&L Gates – very slow, slightly below market pay, some nice people but not overly outgoing
Akin Gump – yes, I know it started in Dallas, but this office is a shell of its former self (just like the Houston office) and way smaller than the NYC or DC offices so imo this is a satellite office, pay is in line with BigTex firms, very little partnership chance as this office is not a priority for the firm, has good investment fund work but little other transactional work
Patton Boggs – don’t know much other than they have a lot of finance/bank work (less m&a work) and the pay is in line with BigTex firms
Baker McKenzie – small and not growing but people stay relatively busy, pay is in line with BigTex firms
Hunton & Williams – small corporate group, but has a few heavy hitters leftover from when it acquired the remaining Jenkins & Gilchrist lawyers, pay is probably a little worse than the BigTex firms

2. Houston Satellites:

Top Tier (the largest of the BigTex firms):
Vinson & Elkins – the biggest corporate group of the Houston satellites by far, at the top of the BigTex firms when it comes to pay, very stuffy/introverted office culture (esp when compared to the Houston office), very small (and random) partnership chance, the best exit ops of the Houston satellites (due to both its reputation and group size), has maintained a relatively consistent size over the past few years
Baker Botts – this office has been shrinking dramatically (from almost 200 lawyers 4 years ago to around 120 today), very small corporate group (IP and lit are the focus of this office – and every BB office other than Houston), not very busy, more laid back and friendly firm culture (especially when compared to BB Houston), pay is in line with BigTex firms but no better (and bonuses are notoriously late – up to 4 months late)
Fulbright – friendly (if overly fratty) office culture, very small corporate group (the partners are mostly ex-Winstead), pretty slow right now, pay is in line with BigTex firms, has maintained a relatively consistent size over the past few years (VE, BB, and Fulbright are all in the 120-135 range now, I believe)

Lower Tier (still BigTex – as a whole, these firms are very similar to the top tier of the Dallas-based firms below in terms of size/prestige/etc.):
Andrews Kurth – small corporate group (but probably the same as BB and Fulbright) but growing, fairly busy, pay is in line with BigTex firms, friendly office culture (but not nearly as social/fratty as AK Houston), slim partnership chance
Bracewell – very very small group, doesn’t really make a dent in the Dallas market

One thing to note about the Houston satellites is that these offices seem to be more of an afterthought than the top national satellites – each of the Houston firms ranks Dallas pretty low on their list of priorities (they’re all focused on Houston, NYC and international work because that is what feeds their energy work)

3. Dallas-based Firms:

Top Tier (the remaining three BigTex firms):
Haynes Boone – the largest corporate group in town (with JD second), very outgoing (some say too outgoing/fratty) firm culture, busy (but not totally swamped as they hire the largest incoming classes in Dallas), pay matches the BigTex firms (HB matches but never leads the way on pay increases), probably the best (but still far from a guarantee) partnership chances of any place in town, hours can be bad when you’re busy but generally a low facetime requirement, the only Dallas-based firm other than Locke to actively expand into new markets such as NYC (has probably the largest NYC office now of any BigTex firm) and CA but is behind the Houston 3 when it comes to international expansion, firm hasn’t shrunk or grown much over the past 4 years
Thompson & Knight – small corporate group (they’re more known for oil&gas, tax, and real estate work), friendly firm culture, decent partnership chances, firm is actively looking to merge and isn’t very successful outside of the Dallas market (the non-Dallas offices have like 4-1 partner to associate ratios), they’re shrunk quite a bit over the past 4 years (by about 20%) in Dallas and have lost almost all of their international lawyers (most to Mayer Brown)
Locke Lord – small corporate group (they’re mostly known for litigation), friendly but quirky firm culture, good partnership chances (they are partner heavy), the merger seems to have worked out pretty well, and they are ahead of the other Dallas firms when it comes to expansion in London, the Dallas office has shrunk by about 20% over the past 4 years

Lower Tier:
Gardere – still has some good work but the corporate group is smaller, friendly people but didn’t do much for their popularity when they no offered an entire summer class (in Dallas and Houston – about 25 people) in 2009, pay below the BigTex firms
Winstead – used to be a much bigger player in Dallas (there are a lot of former Winstead corporate lawyers in the big shops in town), still has a good real estate group, friendly people, corporate group is pretty busy, pay significantly below the BigTex firms
Jackson Walker – small corporate group, friendly firm culture, seems intent on staying a Texas-only regional firm, moderately busy, pay similar to Winstead
Strasburger – like Jackson Walker but in worse financial shape (with crazy partner to associate ratios – something like 6 partners to each associate), not very busy and probably the worst pay of any firm listed here

If anyone has any further questions, let me know and I’ll pm you. Hope this helps!


This is about... 4 months old or so, but if the person who posted this could PM me, I would really appreciate it. This was very informative.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:29 am

Not underrated, though, depends on your view of what you consider underrated to actually mean

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:24 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Can you discuss Dallas?

That was a very helpful discussion.


Here we go.

First, I want to note that this analysis relates solely to transactional work. Litigation is an entirely different ballgame - if you would like to see that analysis, I can do a cursory one, but it won't be nearly as informed. Also, I think the analysis of transactional work in Dallas is easiest when grouped into three categories (National Satellites, Houston Satellites, and Dallas-based Firms), so that's what I've done. Not everyone is the same, so every person's analysis should be different, especially when it comes to culture decisions - rumor on the street is that some people actually like BB Houston's culture.

1. National Satellites:

Top Tier:
Weil – great work, top of the market pay, some difficult personalities, no partnership chances, long hours (but I’ve heard that the hours are actually a little better than JD), has maintained its size over the past few years, the best national name recognition
Jones Day – great work, pay is no better than BigTex firms, some very difficult partners (in the capital markets group, not the m&a group), no partnership chances, very very long hours, the biggest corporate group among the national satellites (but the office as a whole has shed about 50 lawyers (or 25%) in 4 years), great name recognition if you aren’t sure about staying in Dallas long-term
Gibson Dunn – good work, top of the market pay, hours aren’t bad, mostly good people (with one notable exception among the corporate partners), no partnership chances

Lower Tier:
K&L Gates – very slow, slightly below market pay, some nice people but not overly outgoing
Akin Gump – yes, I know it started in Dallas, but this office is a shell of its former self (just like the Houston office) and way smaller than the NYC or DC offices so imo this is a satellite office, pay is in line with BigTex firms, very little partnership chance as this office is not a priority for the firm, has good investment fund work but little other transactional work
Patton Boggs – don’t know much other than they have a lot of finance/bank work (less m&a work) and the pay is in line with BigTex firms
Baker McKenzie – small and not growing but people stay relatively busy, pay is in line with BigTex firms
Hunton & Williams – small corporate group, but has a few heavy hitters leftover from when it acquired the remaining Jenkins & Gilchrist lawyers, pay is probably a little worse than the BigTex firms

2. Houston Satellites:

Top Tier (the largest of the BigTex firms):
Vinson & Elkins – the biggest corporate group of the Houston satellites by far, at the top of the BigTex firms when it comes to pay, very stuffy/introverted office culture (esp when compared to the Houston office), very small (and random) partnership chance, the best exit ops of the Houston satellites (due to both its reputation and group size), has maintained a relatively consistent size over the past few years
Baker Botts – this office has been shrinking dramatically (from almost 200 lawyers 4 years ago to around 120 today), very small corporate group (IP and lit are the focus of this office – and every BB office other than Houston), not very busy, more laid back and friendly firm culture (especially when compared to BB Houston), pay is in line with BigTex firms but no better (and bonuses are notoriously late – up to 4 months late)
Fulbright – friendly (if overly fratty) office culture, very small corporate group (the partners are mostly ex-Winstead), pretty slow right now, pay is in line with BigTex firms, has maintained a relatively consistent size over the past few years (VE, BB, and Fulbright are all in the 120-135 range now, I believe)

Lower Tier (still BigTex – as a whole, these firms are very similar to the top tier of the Dallas-based firms below in terms of size/prestige/etc.):
Andrews Kurth – small corporate group (but probably the same as BB and Fulbright) but growing, fairly busy, pay is in line with BigTex firms, friendly office culture (but not nearly as social/fratty as AK Houston), slim partnership chance
Bracewell – very very small group, doesn’t really make a dent in the Dallas market

One thing to note about the Houston satellites is that these offices seem to be more of an afterthought than the top national satellites – each of the Houston firms ranks Dallas pretty low on their list of priorities (they’re all focused on Houston, NYC and international work because that is what feeds their energy work)

3. Dallas-based Firms:

Top Tier (the remaining three BigTex firms):
Haynes Boone – the largest corporate group in town (with JD second), very outgoing (some say too outgoing/fratty) firm culture, busy (but not totally swamped as they hire the largest incoming classes in Dallas), pay matches the BigTex firms (HB matches but never leads the way on pay increases), probably the best (but still far from a guarantee) partnership chances of any place in town, hours can be bad when you’re busy but generally a low facetime requirement, the only Dallas-based firm other than Locke to actively expand into new markets such as NYC (has probably the largest NYC office now of any BigTex firm) and CA but is behind the Houston 3 when it comes to international expansion, firm hasn’t shrunk or grown much over the past 4 years
Thompson & Knight – small corporate group (they’re more known for oil&gas, tax, and real estate work), friendly firm culture, decent partnership chances, firm is actively looking to merge and isn’t very successful outside of the Dallas market (the non-Dallas offices have like 4-1 partner to associate ratios), they’re shrunk quite a bit over the past 4 years (by about 20%) in Dallas and have lost almost all of their international lawyers (most to Mayer Brown)
Locke Lord – small corporate group (they’re mostly known for litigation), friendly but quirky firm culture, good partnership chances (they are partner heavy), the merger seems to have worked out pretty well, and they are ahead of the other Dallas firms when it comes to expansion in London, the Dallas office has shrunk by about 20% over the past 4 years

Lower Tier:
Gardere – still has some good work but the corporate group is smaller, friendly people but didn’t do much for their popularity when they no offered an entire summer class (in Dallas and Houston – about 25 people) in 2009, pay below the BigTex firms
Winstead – used to be a much bigger player in Dallas (there are a lot of former Winstead corporate lawyers in the big shops in town), still has a good real estate group, friendly people, corporate group is pretty busy, pay significantly below the BigTex firms
Jackson Walker – small corporate group, friendly firm culture, seems intent on staying a Texas-only regional firm, moderately busy, pay similar to Winstead
Strasburger – like Jackson Walker but in worse financial shape (with crazy partner to associate ratios – something like 6 partners to each associate), not very busy and probably the worst pay of any firm listed here

If anyone has any further questions, let me know and I’ll pm you. Hope this helps!


This is about... 4 months old or so, but if the person who posted this could PM me, I would really appreciate it. This was very informative.


I second this. I would really like to know the litigation analysis for Dallas, so if the person wouldn't mind posting it or PMing me also, that would be awesome. Or if anybody else has any insight into that area I would love to hear your thoughts as well.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18406
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby bk1 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:34 pm

Reminder: you cannot be pmed when you post anonymously.

User avatar
sikemenow
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:45 am

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby sikemenow » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:40 pm

bk1 wrote:Reminder: you cannot be pmed when you post anonymously.


My mistake. I posted the most recent inquiry concerning Dallas litigation (above).

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Which office? I'd chose V&E DC over the V10 no question.


Really? I've heard that V&E is nothing in DC. The couple people I know who went there did not have great options elsewhere at all. Seemed like it was just one of those firms for people who really wanted to be in DC, but couldn't make it to the high- or mid-tier DC firms doing the real top-of-the-line work. I could be wrong though.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:47 pm

How about Gardere's lit department? And starting salary? I think it's near market, like 150?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Which office? I'd chose V&E DC over the V10 no question.


Really? I've heard that V&E is nothing in DC. The couple people I know who went there did not have great options elsewhere at all. Seemed like it was just one of those firms for people who really wanted to be in DC, but couldn't make it to the high- or mid-tier DC firms doing the real top-of-the-line work. I could be wrong though.


I have no opinion on the firm or the office but the V&E DC interviewer at my OCI sat outside the room badmouthing the people she had just interviewed

User avatar
manofjustice
Posts: 1323
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 10:01 pm

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby manofjustice » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:11 pm

bk1 wrote:You realize that Vault is merely a survey of associates and since most associates work in NYC that it thus skews heavily towards NYC?


Oh. I cannot believe I just realized that. Shit...

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How about Gardere's lit department? And starting salary? I think it's near market, like 150?


don't know how they are specifically for litigation, but pretty much the entire Dallas summer class got no-offered this past summer.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Which office? I'd chose V&E DC over the V10 no question.


Really? I've heard that V&E is nothing in DC. The couple people I know who went there did not have great options elsewhere at all. Seemed like it was just one of those firms for people who really wanted to be in DC, but couldn't make it to the high- or mid-tier DC firms doing the real top-of-the-line work. I could be wrong though.


I have no opinion on the firm or the office but the V&E DC interviewer at my OCI sat outside the room badmouthing the people she had just interviewed


Yeah, this sort of goes in line about what I heard about V&E DC. I've liked all the people I know from V&E-Texas though.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:17 pm

3L at T14 in NYC who accepted an offer at V&E Houston. I feel incredibly lucky to have landed there. The people are great, and the work is world class. Exit options are incredibly strong in TX -- like 3 of the associates I worked with got hired away in the 10 weeks I was there, haha. Had dinner last night with the NYC class, they all seemed to genuinely like each other; the NYC partners were just as friendly as the TX partners

(The tax savings from moving to TX are amazing, btw. A friend of mine staying in NYC told me that after NYC taxes, 160 is only 90; after Texas taxes, 160 is about 125. That difference in take home pay used to be my entire yearly salary. In Houston I also paid $500 a month in rent for a apartment complex with TWO pools and TWO gyms. wtf?)

V&E is a great place to work.

User avatar
thesealocust
Posts: 8442
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby thesealocust » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:(The tax savings from moving to TX are amazing, btw. A friend of mine staying in NYC told me that after NYC taxes, 160 is only 90; after Texas taxes, 160 is about 125. That difference in take home pay used to be my entire yearly salary. In Houston I also paid $500 a month in rent for a apartment complex with TWO pools and TWO gyms. wtf?)



The difference in take home pay, even before factoring in cost of living, is quite large. It's nowhere near that large, however.

New York local taxes are roughly 10%, and are deductible from your federal taxes. So the difference is about $16,000 before the deduction, or more like 10-11 thousand once you factor in deductibility.

A significant difference, and of course cost of living is another difference. But it's not a $35,000 difference - it's well under a third of that.

005618502
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:56 pm

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby 005618502 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:49 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:(The tax savings from moving to TX are amazing, btw. A friend of mine staying in NYC told me that after NYC taxes, 160 is only 90; after Texas taxes, 160 is about 125. That difference in take home pay used to be my entire yearly salary. In Houston I also paid $500 a month in rent for a apartment complex with TWO pools and TWO gyms. wtf?)



The difference in take home pay, even before factoring in cost of living, is quite large. It's nowhere near that large, however.

New York local taxes are roughly 10%, and are deductible from your federal taxes. So the difference is about $16,000 before the deduction, or more like 10-11 thousand once you factor in deductibility.

A significant difference, and of course cost of living is another difference. But it's not a $35,000 difference - it's well under a third of that.


I dont know what actual take home is in NYC but a biglaw paycheck in TX would put you at about 104 after taxes. (If you are single). So I think Thesealocust is correct in the difference. Though, as the poster mentioned here, you would never be able to rent even a 5x6 bedroom for $500 a month.

If the person from V&E could PM me, I would love to find out where you stayed. I will be in Houston at two firms this summer and cant find a summer housing option for that cheap. What I have been finding is closer to 800-1000 a month

de5igual
Posts: 1463
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:52 pm

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby de5igual » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:28 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:(The tax savings from moving to TX are amazing, btw. A friend of mine staying in NYC told me that after NYC taxes, 160 is only 90; after Texas taxes, 160 is about 125. That difference in take home pay used to be my entire yearly salary. In Houston I also paid $500 a month in rent for a apartment complex with TWO pools and TWO gyms. wtf?)



The difference in take home pay, even before factoring in cost of living, is quite large. It's nowhere near that large, however.

New York local taxes are roughly 10%, and are deductible from your federal taxes. So the difference is about $16,000 before the deduction, or more like 10-11 thousand once you factor in deductibility.

A significant difference, and of course cost of living is another difference. But it's not a $35,000 difference - it's well under a third of that.


I dont know what actual take home is in NYC but a biglaw paycheck in TX would put you at about 104 after taxes. (If you are single). So I think Thesealocust is correct in the difference. Though, as the poster mentioned here, you would never be able to rent even a 5x6 bedroom for $500 a month.

If the person from V&E could PM me, I would love to find out where you stayed. I will be in Houston at two firms this summer and cant find a summer housing option for that cheap. What I have been finding is closer to 800-1000 a month


not the guy at V&E but $500/month even in Houston is a stretch unless you want to live far away or the ghetto.

User avatar
thesealocust
Posts: 8442
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby thesealocust » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:21 am

Take home in NYC is like 96K or so after taxes if you're single.

005618502
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:56 pm

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby 005618502 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:25 am

thesealocust wrote:Take home in NYC is like 96K or so after taxes if you're single.


Yeah, the difference in take home pay is not as drastic as people make it out to be. Your real savings come with COL. Still, if you are on the TX biglaw scale (big 3) in TX you will make less than the NY pay scale in NY even with cost of living after about year 5.

6th year on NY scale gets paid $250,000 whereas in TX you will only be at 185,000. Thats a $65,000 difference, which that difference alone would make for a comfortable living...even in NYC

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:40 am

AssumptionRequired wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Take home in NYC is like 96K or so after taxes if you're single.


Yeah, the difference in take home pay is not as drastic as people make it out to be. Your real savings come with COL. Still, if you are on the TX biglaw scale (big 3) in TX you will make less than the NY pay scale in NY even with cost of living after about year 5.

6th year on NY scale gets paid $250,000 whereas in TX you will only be at 185,000. Thats a $65,000 difference, which that difference alone would make for a comfortable living...even in NYC


???

Not sure where you're getting your numbers on Texas payscale.

Conceding that Texas firms pay below NYC-scale for midlevels, nobody knows exactly what midlevels make at any of the Big 3 firms. I do know, however, that midlevels at my Big 3 firm make a lot more than $185k.

Also, V&E is now paying Texas associates NYC-scale for 7th and 8th years.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:41 am

AssumptionRequired wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Take home in NYC is like 96K or so after taxes if you're single.


Yeah, the difference in take home pay is not as drastic as people make it out to be. Your real savings come with COL. Still, if you are on the TX biglaw scale (big 3) in TX you will make less than the NY pay scale in NY even with cost of living after about year 5.

6th year on NY scale gets paid $250,000 whereas in TX you will only be at 185,000. Thats a $65,000 difference, which that difference alone would make for a comfortable living...even in NYC


Incorrect. VE is on the national scale now. 6th years get about 250 as well.

User avatar
IrwinM.Fletcher
Posts: 1195
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:55 pm

Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:44 am

I would think the difference is quite a bit bigger than $8k net b/t NYC and DFW/HOU firms paying $160k?

NYC has both local AND state taxes. TX has neither. Not suggesting it's something crazy like a 30k difference, but that's gotta be worth more than 5% as suggested. On phone and too lazy to look up and link tax rates.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.