Cleary v. STB

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Cleary or STB?

Cleary
11
52%
Simpson Thacher
10
48%
 
Total votes: 21

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Cleary v. STB

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:01 pm

Okay, here is my situation.

I have narrowed down my choice of firms to Cleary and Simpson Thacher. I know for a fact that I want to do corporate. I am unsure that I want to remain in law for the long-term as of right now, and may want to instead move onto the business side of things at some point. I liked the people at both firms, although I felt like I clicked more at Cleary. I would go and visit both offices to try and meet more people, but my school is too far away for that to really be feasible.

I liked the location of STB better. I think the flexibility offered by Cleary's system is very appealing.

My biggest reservation stems from the fact that, as near as I can tell, STB has an overall better corporate practice, particularly in M&A. I really really like the flexibility of Cleary's system, but if there are less practice areas actually worth going into, it seems like that flexibility's value is somewhat dampened.

Any advice is really appreciated.

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Re: Cleary v. STB

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:10 pm

both are great. If you liked Cleary more, then go there. While STB may have some advantages over Cleary, any difference is pretty negligible and should be outweighed by "fit" factors.

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thesealocust
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Re: Cleary v. STB

Postby thesealocust » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:My biggest reservation stems from the fact that, as near as I can tell, STB has an overall better corporate practice, particularly in M&A.


Cleary and STB, in terms of corporate practice, are either identical or so close that any differences which do exist couldn't possibly matter to a law student choosing a firm.

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Re: Cleary v. STB

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:39 pm

Hi OP. I am in the same position. I'm interested in corporate, also deciding between these two firms. I would love to get some thoughts on this too.

OP, have you given any thought to Cleary and STB's structure? I think that should definitely be taken into consideration. Cleary is pretty free market. They don't really have practice groups. Flexibility is definitely one of Cleary's draws. It seems like you can take your career into your own hands and chart your own course. But I think you would have to be more proactive about getting assignments and in seeking out the people you are interested in working with. Simpson seems more structured. They have a rotation system, which allows you to experience their three corporate groups (M&A, capital markets and securities, and banking and credit). I have read that Simpson has a stronger general corporate practice. I am trying to learn more about Cleary's corporate department.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cleary v. STB

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:43 pm

I just finished my summer at STB and I'd be happy to help answer any specific questions.

To the poster interested in Latin America work, I'd suggest leveraging your offer to get a rotation abroad. I know of three people my year who did a month in Sao Paolo. I'd urge you to ask before accepting the offer.

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Re: Cleary v. STB

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I just finished my summer at STB and I'd be happy to help answer any specific questions.

To the poster interested in Latin America work, I'd suggest leveraging your offer to get a rotation abroad. I know of three people my year who did a month in Sao Paolo. I'd urge you to ask before accepting the offer.



Thanks so much. I really appreciate it. I would hear about your experience at Simpson. I'm new to TLS and was trying to message you, but I don't see how. Do you know how PM works? Thanks!

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thelawyler
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Re: Cleary v. STB

Postby thelawyler » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I just finished my summer at STB and I'd be happy to help answer any specific questions.

To the poster interested in Latin America work, I'd suggest leveraging your offer to get a rotation abroad. I know of three people my year who did a month in Sao Paolo. I'd urge you to ask before accepting the offer.



Thanks so much. I really appreciate it. I would hear about your experience at Simpson. I'm new to TLS and was trying to message you, but I don't see how. Do you know how PM works? Thanks!

You can't PM an anonymous user.

Anonymous User
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Re: Cleary v. STB

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:44 am

thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My biggest reservation stems from the fact that, as near as I can tell, STB has an overall better corporate practice, particularly in M&A.


Cleary and STB, in terms of corporate practice, are either identical or so close that any differences which do exist couldn't possibly matter to a law student choosing a firm.


OP here.

How could that possibly be the case? If someone ends up wanting to stay in law, they should clearly be choosing the place that represents the best congruence to their professional goals. It's not as if lateraling is the easiest thing in the world.

Part of the reason I am still considering STB despite it's marginally lower "fit" is because of the fact that it is extremely well known for its PE work. If I decide I ultimately wanted to move into PE, it would be absolutely impossible to say that Cleary would provide the same networking and experience that STB does. Likewise, if I wanted to simply remain a corporate lawyer, even though Cleary is an obviously fantastic firm on the corporate side, it's hard to deny that STB has a better reputation across the board, maybe with the exception of sovereign debt deals. I feel like a lot of what I've just said also applies to the other anon who seems particularly interested in M&A work. From what I understand, Cleary simply doesn't have the same presence in M&A.

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Re: Cleary v. STB

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:I just finished my summer at STB and I'd be happy to help answer any specific questions.

To the poster interested in Latin America work, I'd suggest leveraging your offer to get a rotation abroad. I know of three people my year who did a month in Sao Paolo. I'd urge you to ask before accepting the offer.


Slightly off-topic, but what do you think of the litigation practice at STB? Also, hours and lifestyle? I heard STB was somewhat better than Cravath/S&C/Skadden in that it is less fratty (more go home after work) and that it was slightly less hours than those.

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Re: Cleary v. STB

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I just finished my summer at STB and I'd be happy to help answer any specific questions.

To the poster interested in Latin America work, I'd suggest leveraging your offer to get a rotation abroad. I know of three people my year who did a month in Sao Paolo. I'd urge you to ask before accepting the offer.


Slightly off-topic, but what do you think of the litigation practice at STB? Also, hours and lifestyle? I heard STB was somewhat better than Cravath/S&C/Skadden in that it is less fratty (more go home after work) and that it was slightly less hours than those.


Also interested.

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thesealocust
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Re: Cleary v. STB

Postby thesealocust » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My biggest reservation stems from the fact that, as near as I can tell, STB has an overall better corporate practice, particularly in M&A.


Cleary and STB, in terms of corporate practice, are either identical or so close that any differences which do exist couldn't possibly matter to a law student choosing a firm.


OP here.

How could that possibly be the case? If someone ends up wanting to stay in law, they should clearly be choosing the place that represents the best congruence to their professional goals. It's not as if lateraling is the easiest thing in the world.

Part of the reason I am still considering STB despite it's marginally lower "fit" is because of the fact that it is extremely well known for its PE work. If I decide I ultimately wanted to move into PE, it would be absolutely impossible to say that Cleary would provide the same networking and experience that STB does. Likewise, if I wanted to simply remain a corporate lawyer, even though Cleary is an obviously fantastic firm on the corporate side, it's hard to deny that STB has a better reputation across the board, maybe with the exception of sovereign debt deals. I feel like a lot of what I've just said also applies to the other anon who seems particularly interested in M&A work. From what I understand, Cleary simply doesn't have the same presence in M&A.


uh...

(1) Lateraling is the easiest thing in the world. At either firm you are likely to get unsolicited phone calls from headhunters trying to get you to lateral. I got a lateral job offer as a summer associate because a headhunter fucked up and didn't realize I wasn't even a full-time employee.

Every year both firms hire, plus or minus, 100 summer associates. When the summer ends, they welcome first year classes nearly as large. Every year, the firms remain roughly the same size. And neither firm fires associates for almost any reason. That's like 8-10 lawyers per month leaving the firm, and almost always lateraling to other lucrative/prestigious legal positions.

(2) As far as practice areas, your OP makes it blatantly obvious that you're unsure of what you want to do. That's fine. It also means that there's no difference between STB and Cleary for you. The firms have weaker and stronger practice areas, but overall they have cream-of-the-crop corporate practices where you'll do great work, for great clients, no matter where you land. The firms have different strengths and weaknesses, but they really are peers and unless you already know what you want to do those differences mean exactly zilch. The differences between the V10 NYC corporate practices, in the aggregate, is almost non-existent in terms of prestige, quality of work, and exit options.

(3) Do some research about "moving to the business side of things" - it's not very likely from any law firm or legal practice. You'll find examples of people who did it, but it's not common place enough to make it plan A. And if you decide one day you want to go into PE, it had better be one day while you're a practicing PE lawyer. You don't just get to go buy side one day because you worked at STB in their securities practice.




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