Presidential Management Fellows Forum

[Anonymous User]

I was thinking about applying to PMF, but I just realized that they do not appoint to attorney positions. I am concerned that it would be a "non-attorney" position that would hurt my legal career. I know one attorney in a high-level government position now who went through PMF initially out of law school, but I am not going to a school in the same league as him (HYS). Does anyone have any experience with PMF or know someone who does? If so, does the selectivity of the program itself overshadow the fact that it may lead to a paralegal or specialist position and not an attorney position? Thank you!

[Anonymous User]

Oh, and my ultimate goal is to end up in a government attorney position.

[LawIdiot86]

It doesn't lead to a paralegal position, it leads to a non-legal position. PMFs do policy work and program management, some of which may look like legal work (writing a new policy for x or managing a contract for y). In modern times, PMF is set up so that it is fairly hard to move into an attorney position. I know of one case where it happened, but that was a little odd and reflected more on that agency bending the rules. You'd basically have to apply to a listed attorney opening and hope they would subjectively credit your PMF experience as a reason to hire you as an entry-level attorney. Also, given the way the excepted service works and because PMF is non-legal, you would probably have to give up whatever salary/experience you had earned in PMF (i.e. dropping from a GS-12 in the 301 series to a GS-09 in the 905 series).

[Anonymous User]

Thank you for the information. I know someone who was able to go from PMF to a general counsel's office, which would make sense. That would be difficult to go back down the pay scale especially if living in DC. I know that it is really difficult to credit time in another series to a 905 series position, even if the previous position was otherwise extremely relevant. I think I will still apply, but it would not be my first choice. Thank you!

[LawIdiot86]

It is worth applying unless you've got something better because the long PMF process only happens once a year. What might be an undesirable non-legal position in October can transform into a poverty-avoiding necessity by April.

[Anonymous User]

I have a position as an attorney if I want it in the city where I go to school. However, I want to work in government. There are a lot of government attorney positions in the area of law I specialize in. Would it be better to work with a one or two attorney firm for a year or two and hope the hiring freeze thaws or do PMF and hope I can transition that into an attorney position?