DOJ Honors 2013

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I think I'm nervous about the references aspect of this. If references haven't been called, do you think that means you're not getting an offer Monday-Wednesday? Ugh, this whole process is nerve-wracking and I'm driving myself crazy!

This is totally what's worrying me. I'm trying not to think about it since I can't do anything about it, but... yeah, that's not working so well.

(I think people in this thread have reported both references being contacted by e-mail and by phone, but I could be wrong about that.)

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:01 pm

Anyone besides EOIR and antitrust had their references contacted?

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For what it is worth:
I interviewed for EOIR, was selected as a "finalist" on Thursday. Received an email on Friday that 1 of my references had switched jobs and to provide updated info for that reference. Not sure if that hurt my chances or not.

I'm sure as long as you can provide the contact info and they can get in touch with that person, it's not going to hurt your chances. If they want to hire you, they're not going to change their mind because they have to take an extra step to track down a reference.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:14 pm

For OCIJ this year, there's like 65 openings right? I think I read on last year's board that there were only like 20-30 openings, so I would think this year's process is probably going to take some more time.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Do we know if they call your references or do they e-mail them?


I know they contacted two of mine by email. I have not been in contact with the other one, so I don't know whether they contacted her and if so how.

Anonymous User wrote:For OCIJ this year, there's like 65 openings right? I think I read on last year's board that there were only like 20-30 openings, so I would think this year's process is probably going to take some more time.


I heard while at my interview that they are not sure whether they will have 65 openings and that they may have half that. I am not sure. I know that it surprised many people that OCIJ had reported so many open positions.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:18 pm

Someone said that components were only allowed to interview four people per spot. I am wondering if this is accurate. That would be a strange outcome for components hiring 1-4 people. Would those components really only be able to interview 4-16 people? I ask mostly for trying to determine my chances with the BIA. Under the math above, they interviewed 16 people for four spots, which is not a bad set of chances. My references have been checked by another component, and I would jump at an offer. However, I have not heard anything about the BIA or from anyone saying their references had been contacted by them. I guess I have two questions: (1) does anyone know how many people the BIA interviewed for the 4 spots, and (2) has anyone heard anything from the BIA or know of anyone who has heard anything from them? Thank you!

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Someone said that components were only allowed to interview four people per spot. I am wondering if this is accurate. That would be a strange outcome for components hiring 1-4 people. Would those components really only be able to interview 4-16 people? I ask mostly for trying to determine my chances with the BIA. Under the math above, they interviewed 16 people for four spots, which is not a bad set of chances. My references have been checked by another component, and I would jump at an offer. However, I have not heard anything about the BIA or from anyone saying their references had been contacted by them. I guess I have two questions: (1) does anyone know how many people the BIA interviewed for the 4 spots, and (2) has anyone heard anything from the BIA or know of anyone who has heard anything from them? Thank you!


Why is only being able to interview 4 people per spot strange for components with less spots? It's not like they interviewed everyone who applied, and I doubt that any component will have to go to their 4th choice before someone will accept an offer.

I wouldn't be surprised if almost everyone who interviewed was labeled a finalist.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Someone said that components were only allowed to interview four people per spot. I am wondering if this is accurate. That would be a strange outcome for components hiring 1-4 people. Would those components really only be able to interview 4-16 people? I ask mostly for trying to determine my chances with the BIA. Under the math above, they interviewed 16 people for four spots, which is not a bad set of chances. My references have been checked by another component, and I would jump at an offer. However, I have not heard anything about the BIA or from anyone saying their references had been contacted by them. I guess I have two questions: (1) does anyone know how many people the BIA interviewed for the 4 spots, and (2) has anyone heard anything from the BIA or know of anyone who has heard anything from them? Thank you!


Why is only being able to interview 4 people per spot strange for components with less spots? It's not like they interviewed everyone who applied, and I doubt that any component will have to go to their 4th choice before someone will accept an offer.


I guess I just find 4 to be a small number for even 1 spot. I can't imagine a firm receiving over 1000 resumes (without legal writing samples) and then choosing only 4 people to interview (without a screener) for hiring 1 person who will be working for you for the next two years. It sounded a little questionable to me, but perhaps I am overthinking it.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I guess I just find 4 to be a small number for even 1 spot. I can't imagine a firm receiving over 1000 resumes (without legal writing samples) and then choosing only 4 people to interview (without a screener) for hiring 1 person who will be working for you for the next two years. It sounded a little questionable to me, but perhaps I am overthinking it.


I don't know. If everyone they interviewed was qualified for the position on paper, all you'd need an interview for is to weed out anyone who is super weird (probably not that many) and then ranking your already qualified candidates in order of preference, labeling them all finalists and then just giving the top one an offer.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I guess I just find 4 to be a small number for even 1 spot. I can't imagine a firm receiving over 1000 resumes (without legal writing samples) and then choosing only 4 people to interview (without a screener) for hiring 1 person who will be working for you for the next two years. It sounded a little questionable to me, but perhaps I am overthinking it.


I don't know. If everyone they interviewed was qualified for the position on paper, all you'd need an interview for is to weed out anyone who is super weird (probably not that many) and then ranking your already qualified candidates in order of preference, labeling them all finalists and then just giving the top one an offer.


You have a good point. I tend to forget that in anything there generally is not a "perfect" or "ideal" that is being sought. As you said, they are looking for someone qualified who is good to work with, which generally can be determined from the essays, extra-curriculars, and work experience. If that is the process, then from what I have seen it works well as everyone I have met or worked with in the agency has been extremely capable and great to work with.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:25 pm

I used to work in a profession where we'd regularly get 100s of applications for 1 spot, and usually preliminary interviews were between 10-15 people. Maybe 8, if you were being particularly stringent. But then there was a callback of (usually) 3, so obviously that's different from here. The problem with interviewing 4 people for 1 slot isn't that you'd have to go past your 4th choice to get someone to accept the offer - it's that you might not end up liking the 4 people you pick (since after a certain point, if you're picking 4 people out of 100s or 1000s, you're really relying on fairly arbitrary stuff to distinguish between them, and someone may look way better on paper than they do in person). I've regularly seen, say, 12 people who looked great on paper get a preliminary interview (like a screener), and after the interview 6 people have managed to rule themselves out without any work on the interviewer's part. Yes, everyone's qualified on paper, but it's not just a question of ruling out the weirdos - you also want to find the person who is the right fit for the slot (and I think this would matter a little bit more in this context where you're hiring one person who's in theory going to be around for a long time, than when, say, you're hiring a big SA class for a big firm, where you have to expect a reasonable amount of attrition). So I could see wanting to interview a few more than 4 for 1 slot - but am just speculating, of course. I don't think it would be more than 8-10, though. (Again, speculation.)

It does make sense, though (as much it depresses me), that a lot of people get designated finalists.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Someone said that components were only allowed to interview four people per spot. I am wondering if this is accurate. That would be a strange outcome for components hiring 1-4 people. Would those components really only be able to interview 4-16 people? I ask mostly for trying to determine my chances with the BIA. Under the math above, they interviewed 16 people for four spots, which is not a bad set of chances. My references have been checked by another component, and I would jump at an offer. However, I have not heard anything about the BIA or from anyone saying their references had been contacted by them. I guess I have two questions: (1) does anyone know how many people the BIA interviewed for the 4 spots, and (2) has anyone heard anything from the BIA or know of anyone who has heard anything from them? Thank you!


Yes, the information about four people per spot is true as far as I know. CRT interviewed sixteen people (out of 700 who selected it as their first choice) for four spots.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:07 pm

It's not really 4 people > one offer for BIA, it's 16 people > top 4. So If you are interviewing only 4 people for spot #1 and you end up not liking any of them, that's okay because maybe you'll give an offer to person 1 and person 2 who interviewed (theoretically) for spot #2.

But I think it comes down to the cost of flying people out for interviews, and 4 people per spot is the best they can afford. OCIJ is okay with interviewing closest to the person, even if some people would be a better fit in some offices than others and there is no way for someone in NYC to know how well someone would fit in TX--and they interview more people than all of the other components, so it makes sense for them to cut down on costs that way.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:09 pm

someone posted they are a finalist for criminal tax. Does anyone know about civil tax?

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It's not really 4 people > one offer for BIA, it's 16 people > top 4. So If you are interviewing only 4 people for spot #1 and you end up not liking any of them, that's okay because maybe you'll give an offer to person 1 and person 2 who interviewed (theoretically) for spot #2.

But I think it comes down to the cost of flying people out for interviews, and 4 people per spot is the best they can afford. OCIJ is okay with interviewing closest to the person, even if some people would be a better fit in some offices than others and there is no way for someone in NYC to know how well someone would fit in TX--and they interview more people than all of the other components, so it makes sense for them to cut down on costs that way.


I was saying the 4 to 1 also in reference to OCAHO, OGC, and OLAP, all of which were only hiring one person. I was surprised that they would only get 4 interviews. I was not selected by those, but somewhat was extrapolating out to the 4 spots that the BIA had.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It's not really 4 people > one offer for BIA, it's 16 people > top 4. So If you are interviewing only 4 people for spot #1 and you end up not liking any of them, that's okay because maybe you'll give an offer to person 1 and person 2 who interviewed (theoretically) for spot #2.

But I think it comes down to the cost of flying people out for interviews, and 4 people per spot is the best they can afford. OCIJ is okay with interviewing closest to the person, even if some people would be a better fit in some offices than others and there is no way for someone in NYC to know how well someone would fit in TX--and they interview more people than all of the other components, so it makes sense for them to cut down on costs that way.

True, I forgot about that - was thinking about components that actually hire only for 1 slot. But if they get 4 interviews, they get 4 interviews, and I'm sure they deal with it! (And I was definitely thinking that it makes sense for OCIJ to be 4 people per slot, or even fewer, because the math you point out above makes even more sense for them.)

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It's not really 4 people > one offer for BIA, it's 16 people > top 4. So If you are interviewing only 4 people for spot #1 and you end up not liking any of them, that's okay because maybe you'll give an offer to person 1 and person 2 who interviewed (theoretically) for spot #2.

But I think it comes down to the cost of flying people out for interviews, and 4 people per spot is the best they can afford. OCIJ is okay with interviewing closest to the person, even if some people would be a better fit in some offices than others and there is no way for someone in NYC to know how well someone would fit in TX--and they interview more people than all of the other components, so it makes sense for them to cut down on costs that way.

True, I forgot about that - was thinking about components that actually hire only for 1 slot. But if they get 4 interviews, they get 4 interviews, and I'm sure they deal with it! (And I was definitely thinking that it makes sense for OCIJ to be 4 people per slot, or even fewer, because the math you point out above makes even more sense for them.)


I totally agree for OCIJ. Someone said they interviewed 180 this year. According to the site they are hiring 65. That would mean that OCIJ actually interviewed less than three people per slot. As you said, that would make sense given the large number of spots. That is still 115 people who won't receive offers. If, as I heard someone say, they are not able to get funding for all those spots and only end up hiring 30 as in past years, that would actually be 6 interviewed per spot and 150 who will not get offers.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:someone posted they are a finalist for criminal tax. Does anyone know about civil tax?


I know this doesn't help, but a friend of mine received an offer for Criminal Tax.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:04 pm

No OCIJ offers have gone out correct? And only a few have had references contacted? That's what I gather, but I am not sure if I missed anything.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:No OCIJ offers have gone out correct? And only a few have had references contacted? That's what I gather, but I am not sure if I missed anything.


As far as I know, you are correct.

Good luck today, everyone. I have my fingers crossed in hopes that some good news will begin to trickle out.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby kellbell » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:someone posted they are a finalist for criminal tax. Does anyone know about civil tax?


I know this doesn't help, but a friend of mine received an offer for Criminal Tax.


This was not the news I was hoping to receive today. Do you know when they made the offer?

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:29 am

kellbell wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:someone posted they are a finalist for criminal tax. Does anyone know about civil tax?


I know this doesn't help, but a friend of mine received an offer for Criminal Tax.


This was not the news I was hoping to receive today. Do you know when they made the offer?


Thursday.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby kellbell » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:
kellbell wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:someone posted they are a finalist for criminal tax. Does anyone know about civil tax?


I know this doesn't help, but a friend of mine received an offer for Criminal Tax.


This was not the news I was hoping to receive today. Do you know when they made the offer?


Thursday.


Thanks for the info. I don't know why they'd call one last week and one this week (only hiring two) . . . so that probably means I'm just an alternate. So sad.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:32 am

So, to be clear, the components that no one has stated they were selected as finalists are:

Criminal
ENRD
BOP
NSD
Tax-Civil

What are the chances that they haven't selected finalists yet? Criminal and ENRD have the larger hiring numbers, I figured someone would be on here.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:04 pm

Still no USAO finalists out there?




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