DOJ Honors 2013

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Look, I don't want to upset anyone - I'm just sharing information to answer a question, which is what I thought the thread was about.

Anonymous User wrote:Is Antitrust included among those specific components? It just doesn't make sense for it or Civil Rights, and a lot of other components. SF-86 is supposed to be for jobs related to national security. Even using an SF85P-S (supplemental) requires authorization from the OPM and a specific reason that the material therein is needed and relevant. And I've heard the supplemental is not very common-- like I am certain DEA uses it but am not aware of others.

You know, I looked at the forms again and I have to backtrack a bit. The checklist I have is called "Honors Program Forms Checklist," but that checklist doesn't actually specify SF-86 - it talks about what you have to fill out *in addition to completing the e-QIP process* (online form). For me, what I filled out through e-QIP was the SF-86 so I equated the two in my head. But there's a form on the checklist that you have to fill out (credit release) marked "not required if SF-86 is completed," so clearly the SF-86 isn't automatically mandatory. (However, if you do fill out the SF-86, it looks at the last 7 years.) Then Crim, EOIR, Tax, and USTP have component-specific forms to fill out, too. Sorry to mislead.


Thank you so much for the info. I think several of us ITT are more nervous about that aspect than the actual application.


I know I am. I am going back to old friends I haven't talked to in YEARS (people I'm not even FB friends with anymore) asking, "hey, do you remember if we smoked pot that summer, and, if so, how much?" I think I'm hopeless.

Edited to add: I want to make sure I disclose everything, but I am not sure how much I remember from so long ago. I also don't want to end up saying I did more than I really did. Seven years ago really is a blur just with how much life has happened in between (I'm 31 now).


Yeah. Just in case the obsessing people haven't already learned this:
- use within the last year is an absolute bar
- use during law school is problematic
- even very infrequent or one-time use while working in law enforcement, while holding a clearance, or otherwise in position of public trust seems very hard to mitigate (presumably passage of time is most important)
- they try to be pretty understanding about marijuana use in college; I don't think this extends to other drugs because those are much more likely to be disqualifying.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Having been through the process before as an intern, I do find it strange that we would have to do the same form as interns and nothing more. Then again, they never sent agents around to talk to my neighbors when I was an intern.


It takes too long and is too expensive to complete a full clearance on an intern. You fill out the same paperwork, but interns are just doing it to get a waiver of the clearance requirement—a much bigger deal than what it sounds like, but still not an actual clearance. They only spend the time and money on an actual clearance once you're an employee.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Having been through the process before as an intern, I do find it strange that we would have to do the same form as interns and nothing more. Then again, they never sent agents around to talk to my neighbors when I was an intern.


It takes too long and is too expensive to complete a full clearance on an intern. You fill out the same paperwork, but interns are just doing it to get a waiver of the clearance requirement—a much bigger deal than what it sounds like, but still not an actual clearance. They only spend the time and money on an actual clearance once you're an employee.


That is why I was surprised that it would be done on the same form.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Having been through the process before as an intern, I do find it strange that we would have to do the same form as interns and nothing more. Then again, they never sent agents around to talk to my neighbors when I was an intern.


It takes too long and is too expensive to complete a full clearance on an intern. You fill out the same paperwork, but interns are just doing it to get a waiver of the clearance requirement—a much bigger deal than what it sounds like, but still not an actual clearance. They only spend the time and money on an actual clearance once you're an employee.


That is why I was surprised that it would be done on the same form.


You got a waiver for the same clearance you actually get at this point; it stands to reason that they'd like you to affirm the same things that you'd need for the actual clearance (the standard for the waiver is something like prima facie eligibility + favorable computer background check). Moreover, there are only a small handful of OMB forms that can be used for clearance-related purposes throughout the entire government. You fill out the same form to get a DOD TS, a DOE Q, or certain 10-year DOJ clearances, even though the clearances are completely different sorts of clearance and are not fully interchangeable.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:28 pm

Anyone actually hear about offers today?

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You got a waiver for the same clearance you actually get at this point; it stands to reason that they'd like you to affirm the same things that you'd need for the actual clearance (the standard for the waiver is something like prima facie eligibility + favorable computer background check). Moreover, there are only a small handful of OMB forms that can be used for clearance-related purposes throughout the entire government. You fill out the same form to get a DOD TS, a DOE Q, or certain 10-year DOJ clearances, even though the clearances are completely different sorts of clearance and are not fully interchangeable.

Thanks, that's really helpful!

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:10 pm

anyone gotten any offers from any EOIR non-OCIJ component? I'm guessing no... I'm still showing up as a "finalist" and I'm debating e-mailing my interviewer (probably a bad idea unless I have a real reason, right?)

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:33 pm

Anyone have any insight on the timing of these OCIJ offers? My interviewer told me it could take until February, but I'm assuming that includes alternate offers.

Are first round offers still coming?

I wish I understood this process a little better, because this is torture and I can't focus on studying :(

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone have any insight on the timing of these OCIJ offers? My interviewer told me it could take until February, but I'm assuming that includes alternate offers.

Are first round offers still coming?

I wish I understood this process a little better, because this is torture and I can't focus on studying :(


The way I understood it during the interview is that most first round offers will go out late November/ early December. If you were not in that first round, then you should be hearing back around December 15 regarding whether or not you are still being considered. If so, I would assume that you would be an alternate at that time since those who received offers end of November have until the end of December to decide (unless the candidate is not a 3L in which case it is until 12/15 I think). I know it's easier said than done but try not to obsess over it now and focus on exams. You applied and did your best so you have done everything right. Good luck with your exams :)

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone have any insight on the timing of these OCIJ offers? My interviewer told me it could take until February, but I'm assuming that includes alternate offers.

Are first round offers still coming?

I wish I understood this process a little better, because this is torture and I can't focus on studying :(


The way I understood it during the interview is that most first round offers will go out late November/ early December. If you were not in that first round, then you should be hearing back around December 15 regarding whether or not you are still being considered. If so, I would assume that you would be an alternate at that time since those who received offers end of November have until the end of December to decide (unless the candidate is not a 3L in which case it is until 12/15 I think). I know it's easier said than done but try not to obsess over it now and focus on exams. You applied and did your best so you have done everything right. Good luck with your exams :)


Does anyone know the significance, if any, of having your references checked? Does EOIR routinely check references for alternates as they do for first round offers? If your references were checked and received several weeks ago but you haven't heard anything since, does that indicate anything about whether you might be an alternate or not?

Does it seem to anyone else like enough people are still waiting to hear back (the self-numbered EOIR OCIJ applicants, at a minimum) that there might be a few first round offers still out there? I guess not, if Anon. 12/8 - 2:30 is correct, but at least then there's a 12/15 end in sight.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone have any insight on the timing of these OCIJ offers? My interviewer told me it could take until February, but I'm assuming that includes alternate offers.

Are first round offers still coming?

I wish I understood this process a little better, because this is torture and I can't focus on studying :(


The way I understood it during the interview is that most first round offers will go out late November/ early December. If you were not in that first round, then you should be hearing back around December 15 regarding whether or not you are still being considered. If so, I would assume that you would be an alternate at that time since those who received offers end of November have until the end of December to decide (unless the candidate is not a 3L in which case it is until 12/15 I think). I know it's easier said than done but try not to obsess over it now and focus on exams. You applied and did your best so you have done everything right. Good luck with your exams :)


Does anyone know the significance, if any, of having your references checked? Does EOIR routinely check references for alternates as they do for first round offers? If your references were checked and received several weeks ago but you haven't heard anything since, does that indicate anything about whether you might be an alternate or not?

Does it seem to anyone else like enough people are still waiting to hear back (the self-numbered EOIR OCIJ applicants, at a minimum) that there might be a few first round offers still out there? I guess not, if Anon. 12/8 - 2:30 is correct, but at least then there's a 12/15 end in sight.


I think first round offers are still going out. When I spoke with a contact a week or so ago, she mentioned that offers were still going out and the same has been posted by people on this site.

I'm not sure where the Anon - 2:30 is getting his/her info because there hasn't been anything posted by HQ about a Dec. 15th notification date. Sure, a person who got an offer at the end of November has until the end of December but what about the ppl on this board that got offers last week?

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:24 pm

EOIR is also supposed to be issuing roughly double the number of offers it has in recent years, so I wouldn't find it surprising if the process is more drawn-out this year. But that just might be wishful thinking on my part!

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:47 pm

I also heard the process would take until January-February, but all first-round offers would be extended before the end of the year (doesn't really help us much, I know). Any idea how many alternates actually receive an offer with OCIJ?

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I also heard the process would take until January-February, but all first-round offers would be extended before the end of the year (doesn't really help us much, I know). Any idea how many alternates actually receive an offer with OCIJ?


Well obviously that would depend on how many accept and considering the increase in offers and many variables, isn't that pretty much impossible to predict?

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:33 pm

True, but I wasn't sure if anyone was aware of how many alternates, if any, were actually extended offers in past years. It is impossible to predict; I didn't know if there is even a shot that an alternate receives an offer.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:50 pm

I'm pretty sure people have posted in previous years' threads about getting offers in January/February, so presumably they were alternates, so I think alternates have a shot. If you're making 65 offers, it seems likely at least a few people in there might find/choose other employment, or end up deciding they really can't, after all, handle living in the city they get offered. But like people said, numbers seem impossible to predict. (Good luck to everyone still waiting!)

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:00 pm

To give those who haven't heard hope, I'm probably going to decline my EOIR-OCIJ spot. I'll post next week when I make the decision.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:To give those who haven't heard hope, I'm probably going to decline my EOIR-OCIJ spot. I'll post next week when I make the decision.


Which region were you offered?

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:43 am

For all the EOIR JLCs/AAs what's the salary structure like? Is the salary the same for the 2 years or does it increase at yr 2? Is the top rate GS12 or GS13?

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For all the EOIR JLCs/AAs what's the salary structure like? Is the salary the same for the 2 years or does it increase at yr 2? Is the top rate GS12 or GS13?


info about salary is here:
http://www.justice.gov/careers/legal/entry-salary.html and
https://www.opm.gov/oca/12tables/indexgs.asp (locality rates)

If you're fresh out of law school you start at GS-11 (step 1) then IF you pass the bar, AND after 6 months of your start date, you get a raise to GS-12 (step 1). As you can see from the links above, for the DC area this means 62K for the GS-11 level and 74K for the GS-12 level. So you get a hefty raise after six months if you pass the bar.

Now I don't know about GS-13 possibilities if you're coming into the program with more credentials... I can't speak to that.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:For all the EOIR JLCs/AAs what's the salary structure like? Is the salary the same for the 2 years or does it increase at yr 2? Is the top rate GS12 or GS13?


info about salary is here:
http://www.justice.gov/careers/legal/entry-salary.html and
https://www.opm.gov/oca/12tables/indexgs.asp (locality rates)

If you're fresh out of law school you start at GS-11 (step 1) then IF you pass the bar, AND after 6 months of your start date, you get a raise to GS-12 (step 1). As you can see from the links above, for the DC area this means 62K for the GS-11 level and 74K for the GS-12 level. So you get a hefty raise after six months if you pass the bar.

Now I don't know about GS-13 possibilities if you're coming into the program with more credentials... I can't speak to that.


Sometimes people forget that the next step after GS-12 is not GS-13, but GS-12 step 2.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:For all the EOIR JLCs/AAs what's the salary structure like? Is the salary the same for the 2 years or does it increase at yr 2? Is the top rate GS12 or GS13?


info about salary is here:
http://www.justice.gov/careers/legal/entry-salary.html and
https://www.opm.gov/oca/12tables/indexgs.asp (locality rates)

If you're fresh out of law school you start at GS-11 (step 1) then IF you pass the bar, AND after 6 months of your start date, you get a raise to GS-12 (step 1). As you can see from the links above, for the DC area this means 62K for the GS-11 level and 74K for the GS-12 level. So you get a hefty raise after six months if you pass the bar.

Now I don't know about GS-13 possibilities if you're coming into the program with more credentials... I can't speak to that.


Sometimes people forget that the next step after GS-12 is not GS-13, but GS-12 step 2.


True but possibly irrelevant. It all depends on the promotion potential of the position.

If a fed job has the promotion potential to GS13 and you start at GS 11, after GS12 one can jump to 13 (after 1 yr). If the promotion potential is only GS12, then GS12, step 2 would be the ONLY possibility after one has the requisite time in grade. Otherwise there's no reason why someone would go from GS12 step 1 to step 2 if GS13 was possible.

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:10 pm

Any offers today?

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:23 pm

has anyone received an offer (or know of someone who has accepted an offer) at EOIR-OLAP?

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Re: DOJ Honors 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:has anyone received an offer (or know of someone who has accepted an offer) at EOIR-OLAP?


To add to that, how about EOIR-BIA or EOIR-OGC? Has anyone who interviewed with a component of EOIR received offers from anywhere other than OCIJ?




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