V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What happens after my CB? That is to say, what is the process like with interviewers reviewing me and the hiring committee making their decision?
At my firm, interviewers have a few days to review and rank you relative to your peers, then the hiring committee meets to go over these reports. The hiring committee tends to make its decision within a day, after which you are informed. I believe this is how it is at most firms just because I can't imagine how much variation there can possibly be in this process.

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Of course this is specific by firm, but what percent of CB's actually get offers? Does it vary by whether or not they were flown up from outside campuses? Any thought on smaller offices in your firm or externally?
At the top firms, by the time you get a call back, the offer is yours to lose. My guess is that this is true at most firms. A top firm isn't going to pull you out of the hundreds of others they have screened, and then waste HR time, associate time, partner time, a good lunch, and maybe even airfare/hotel expenses on you just for the heck of it. The offer is yours to lose by call back time.


So we should feel bad if we do a cb at a v10 and don't get an offer. What if I (think I) made no mistakes that should have amounted to losing the offer? I take it that you're saying that if I didn't get the offer, then I definitely made a mistake. Is there any way to gain insight into what the mistake was?

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:21 pm

V10 anon (I am getting lazy about putting this on my posts but the past responses in this thread have been me).
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Of course this is specific by firm, but what percent of CB's actually get offers? Does it vary by whether or not they were flown up from outside campuses? Any thought on smaller offices in your firm or externally?
At the top firms, by the time you get a call back, the offer is yours to lose. My guess is that this is true at most firms. A top firm isn't going to pull you out of the hundreds of others they have screened, and then waste HR time, associate time, partner time, a good lunch, and maybe even airfare/hotel expenses on you just for the heck of it. The offer is yours to lose by call back time.


So we should feel bad if we do a cb at a v10 and don't get an offer. What if I (think I) made no mistakes that should have amounted to losing the offer? I take it that you're saying that if I didn't get the offer, then I definitely made a mistake. Is there any way to gain insight into what the mistake was?
It's not always that you made a mistake. Maybe you were in a very competitive pool. Maybe your personality was not a good fit (That is not always bad. At some high pressure firms, if you come off as sweet and friendly instead of driven and aggressive, they might not want you.). You have very little to lose by sending a short, humble e-mail to the associates who interviewed you to ask what they thought of you. If you felt you had an especially good rapport with an associate, then definitely e-mail that person. Initiative and humility can make you friends who will help you even if you don't end up at their firm. I am often rooting for those I do callbacks with because the callback is longer and more personal and I know how close they are to that offer. Often, I am curious about how they ended up (but I don't want to be creepy by reaching out first).

Please remember that I said you should e-mail associates. Leave the partners alone. You're more likely to annoy them than to elicit sympathy if you ask why you got dinged.

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby anon168 » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What happens after my CB? That is to say, what is the process like with interviewers reviewing me and the hiring committee making their decision?
At my firm, interviewers have a few days to review and rank you relative to your peers, then the hiring committee meets to go over these reports. The hiring committee tends to make its decision within a day, after which you are informed. I believe this is how it is at most firms just because I can't imagine how much variation there can possibly be in this process.


This will vary firm to firm but at my old firm the RC wanted our evals completed within 30 minutes after the interview, and within the hour if it was lunch.

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby wjs98 » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:57 pm

How long did it take you to settle into a practice group? Did you rotate around for a while, or did you get with a group relatively quickly? What brought you to that group? Thanks so much for answering questions, v10 anon.

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:05 pm

I fear that I have been receiving post CB rejections from firms because of the questions I ask in response to "Do you have any questions for me?".

I normally ask how they ended up at their firm/practice area, what they like about their firm, what they look for when hiring etc. I try to keep it general and not get too specific into cases/deals they've been involved with. Should I do that instead?

What questions do you recommend me asking? Thanks in advance. Much appreciated.

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:05 pm

V10 anon.
wjs98 wrote:How long did it take you to settle into a practice group? Did you rotate around for a while, or did you get with a group relatively quickly? What brought you to that group? Thanks so much for answering questions, v10 anon.
I chose my practice group based on familiarity with the practice. I did some work with the group during the summer and felt I at least had some idea of what was going on. I had the option to rotate but I chose not to because the down side of rotating is that just as you start to get the hang of things, you have to move on to another group. I wanted to get to know the personalities, make my mistakes, and figure out what the group's quirks were as soon as possible. Some who rotated only started to really build skills after a year (in the case of two six-month rotations) or even two years (in the case of two one-year rotations). They were technically second/third years by the time they settled on a group, but they were really first years in terms of skill.

The benefit of rotating though is that if you find that you are surrounded by assholes, at least you can escape. During the first year, when I learned through trial and error who to avoid, sometimes I wished I had the option of escaping.

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:09 pm

V10 anon.
Anonymous User wrote:I fear that I have been receiving post CB rejections from firms because of the questions I ask in response to "Do you have any questions for me?".

I normally ask how they ended up at their firm/practice area, what they like about their firm, what they look for when hiring etc. I try to keep it general and not get too specific into cases/deals they've been involved with. Should I do that instead?

What questions do you recommend me asking? Thanks in advance. Much appreciated.
Those are great questions and I don't think your questions are the problem. What else are you going to ask - what color panties do you have on or something? How do you respond to their questions? Do you keep the conversation flowing? Might your responses be terse, staccato or sound canned? How are your body language and eye contact? Are your suit and socks conservative?

Assuming you're doing nothing wrong, where did you go to school (HYS, CCN and other such ranges are fine) and what was your standing (top 5%, 10% etc)? In this economy and with class sizes being so small, when everyone who gets a call back does well, I suspect many firms just fill their classes with those who have the best combo of school and rank and pass on the rest. There's little attempt to value soft factors.

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:V10 anon.
Anonymous User wrote:I fear that I have been receiving post CB rejections from firms because of the questions I ask in response to "Do you have any questions for me?".

I normally ask how they ended up at their firm/practice area, what they like about their firm, what they look for when hiring etc. I try to keep it general and not get too specific into cases/deals they've been involved with. Should I do that instead?

What questions do you recommend me asking? Thanks in advance. Much appreciated.
Those are great questions and I don't think your questions are the problem. What else are you going to ask - what color panties do you have on or something? How do you respond to their questions? Do you keep the conversation flowing? Might your responses be terse, staccato or sound canned? How are your body language and eye contact? Are your suit and socks conservative?

Assuming you're doing nothing wrong, where did you go to school (HYS, CCN and other such ranges are fine) and what was your standing (top 5%, 10% etc)? In this economy and with class sizes being so small, when everyone who gets a call back does well, I suspect many firms just fill their classes with those who have the best combo of school and rank and pass on the rest. There's little attempt to value soft factors.


I try to maintain good eye contact and keep the conversation organic. However, I don't go to a top school. I am at a T2 school. Ranked 1st in my class, and my school is in a major market NYC. Could be my school, which obviously I cannot change now, so I am trying to fix what I can before all my interviews are done. Have 3 V10 screeners in the next week so if I don't have a chance because of my school, it's good to know it's probably not the questions i've been asking, since that what I've been thinking it was all along.

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:20 pm

Hey, thanks for answering questions.

I just finished up with EIP and was lucky to do very well w/ callbacks and offers. I'm now considering several offers in the V20 range and one in V50 that is very specialized and well regarded in a particular practice area that I would be interested in.

My only regret was that I might have been too conservative in my bidding out of fear of not getting a job. I didn't get a chance to interview with any V15 firms, with the exception of one screener I picked up w/ a V5 firm in a market I wasn't really interested in. I got a callback but didn't go. Do you think the difference between a V20 firm and a V10 firm (in terms of prestige, lateral options, etc) is great enough that I should be concerned about this? Should I try to interview with top firms at 3L OCI?

Thanks

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey, thanks for answering questions.

I just finished up with EIP and was lucky to do very well w/ callbacks and offers. I'm now considering several offers in the V20 range and one in V50 that is very specialized and well regarded in a particular practice area that I would be interested in.

My only regret was that I might have been too conservative in my bidding out of fear of not getting a job. I didn't get a chance to interview with any V15 firms, with the exception of one screener I picked up w/ a V5 firm in a market I wasn't really interested in. I got a callback but didn't go. Do you think the difference between a V20 firm and a V10 firm (in terms of prestige, lateral options, etc) is great enough that I should be concerned about this? Should I try to interview with top firms at 3L OCI?

Thanks


Will piggyback off this since we're in a somewhat similar situation.

Considering a V25 in a firm that would be specialized in a certain practice / industry. Also considering V5 and V15 firms that are more general. Is it stupid to take the V25 over the others? What if I think I want to do that sort of work? Should I not specialize right off the bat?

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Postby Myself » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:06 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:25 pm

V10 anon.
Anonymous User wrote:Hey, thanks for answering questions.

I just finished up with EIP and was lucky to do very well w/ callbacks and offers. I'm now considering several offers in the V20 range and one in V50 that is very specialized and well regarded in a particular practice area that I would be interested in.

My only regret was that I might have been too conservative in my bidding out of fear of not getting a job. I didn't get a chance to interview with any V15 firms, with the exception of one screener I picked up w/ a V5 firm in a market I wasn't really interested in. I got a callback but didn't go. Do you think the difference between a V20 firm and a V10 firm (in terms of prestige, lateral options, etc) is great enough that I should be concerned about this? Should I try to interview with top firms at 3L OCI?

Thanks
Depends on the firm and the practice area and your personal stats. If you are at a top 14 school with good grades then you're already doing well in the prestige game, the minor difference between V20 and V10 is not going to have a great effect on your exit options and career. If you have middling grades or are not at a T14 and you're very concerned about prestige then you want to go to as prestigious a firm as possible because your unprestigious school will count against you for many years to come.

Also, a lot has to do with the specific firm and which practice area you are interested in. If you want to be a litigator, Quinn Emmanuel is a V20 that will look great on your resume. If you're interested in IP, Paul Weiss is a V20 that will look great on your resume. If you're focused on M&A then you want to break into the V10 if at all possible because certain V10 firms completely dominate that practice area.

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:29 pm

V10 anon.
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hey, thanks for answering questions.

I just finished up with EIP and was lucky to do very well w/ callbacks and offers. I'm now considering several offers in the V20 range and one in V50 that is very specialized and well regarded in a particular practice area that I would be interested in.

My only regret was that I might have been too conservative in my bidding out of fear of not getting a job. I didn't get a chance to interview with any V15 firms, with the exception of one screener I picked up w/ a V5 firm in a market I wasn't really interested in. I got a callback but didn't go. Do you think the difference between a V20 firm and a V10 firm (in terms of prestige, lateral options, etc) is great enough that I should be concerned about this? Should I try to interview with top firms at 3L OCI?

Thanks


Will piggyback off this since we're in a somewhat similar situation.

Considering a V25 in a firm that would be specialized in a certain practice / industry. Also considering V5 and V15 firms that are more general. Is it stupid to take the V25 over the others? What if I think I want to do that sort of work? Should I not specialize right off the bat?
If you're 100% sure that you are going to practice in that narrow area (let's say you were an engineer for years before law school, loved it, and know for sure you are going into patent work), go with the V25. If your "certainty" about practice areas is based on anything other than actual work experience related to that area, then you're not really certain and you should not pigeonhole yourself so early in your career. It's a lot easier to move from a V5/15 to a V25 than vice versa and a lot easier to start general then specialize than to specialize early then fight your way out of being pigeonholed.

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:32 pm

ajax adonis wrote:Around how old are you and how long have you been practicing? I ask because I have a suspicion that the preference for thank you notes may depend on age (I think older interviewers like them; younger don't) and maybe even gender. But that's just me.

Also, have you noticed any difference in opinion regarding thank you notes among your colleagues or among certain regions?
As the title indicates, I am a midlevel, meaning 4-6 years experience. Nuff said. I can't speak to my colleagues because we don't really compare thank you notes or discuss such things. If you don't want to send a thank you note, then don't send one. Just know that some people might hold the lack of a thank you note against you and most of your peers send thank you notes. I really should say thank you "e-mail" because e-mail is the norm.

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:37 pm

V10 anon.
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:V10 anon.
Anonymous User wrote:I fear that I have been receiving post CB rejections from firms because of the questions I ask in response to "Do you have any questions for me?".

I normally ask how they ended up at their firm/practice area, what they like about their firm, what they look for when hiring etc. I try to keep it general and not get too specific into cases/deals they've been involved with. Should I do that instead?

What questions do you recommend me asking? Thanks in advance. Much appreciated.
Those are great questions and I don't think your questions are the problem. What else are you going to ask - what color panties do you have on or something? How do you respond to their questions? Do you keep the conversation flowing? Might your responses be terse, staccato or sound canned? How are your body language and eye contact? Are your suit and socks conservative?

Assuming you're doing nothing wrong, where did you go to school (HYS, CCN and other such ranges are fine) and what was your standing (top 5%, 10% etc)? In this economy and with class sizes being so small, when everyone who gets a call back does well, I suspect many firms just fill their classes with those who have the best combo of school and rank and pass on the rest. There's little attempt to value soft factors.


I try to maintain good eye contact and keep the conversation organic. However, I don't go to a top school. I am at a T2 school. Ranked 1st in my class, and my school is in a major market NYC. Could be my school, which obviously I cannot change now, so I am trying to fix what I can before all my interviews are done. Have 3 V10 screeners in the next week so if I don't have a chance because of my school, it's good to know it's probably not the questions i've been asking, since that what I've been thinking it was all along.
I can't tell you what it is but I can tell you what it's not. It's not the questions. The questions you listed are standard questions that your peers ask. If you really want to show initiative, e-mail any associates you feel you connected with at your prior interviews (or even those you didn't connect with - nothing to lose now that their firms have dinged you). Ask them for pointers. It's a bad economy and a competitive field out there. You probably feel awkward about asking for feedback from strangers, but I would strongly advise you to reach for help wherever it can be found. If even one person is candid with you, then the lesson you learn can be the difference between being jobless and sitting pretty. Now's not the time to be bashful.

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote: If you're focused on M&A then you want to break into the V10 if at all possible because certain V10 firms completely dominate that practice area.


I'm a new poster to this thread, but I wanted to expand on this comment. How much difference is there, in quality of work, prestige, or exit options, between each Chambers band?

For example, Cravath (Band 1), Weil (Band 2), Kirkland (Band 3), Fried Frank (Band 4). Hypothetically, if one were to have a preference for those firms in reverse order, at what point should you give up the better culture and go for the prestige? E.g. do you think it's okay to pick Weil over Cravath, but not Fried Frank over Weil?

I have an interest in M&A, but without practicing...heck, maybe I'll like securities best in reality.

Many many thanks!

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: If you're focused on M&A then you want to break into the V10 if at all possible because certain V10 firms completely dominate that practice area.


I'm a new poster to this thread, but I wanted to expand on this comment. How much difference is there, in quality of work, prestige, or exit options, between each Chambers band?

For example, Cravath (Band 1), Weil (Band 2), Kirkland (Band 3), Fried Frank (Band 4). Hypothetically, if one were to have a preference for those firms in reverse order, at what point should you give up the better culture and go for the prestige? E.g. do you think it's okay to pick Weil over Cravath, but not Fried Frank over Weil?

I have an interest in M&A, but without practicing...heck, maybe I'll like securities best in reality.

Many many thanks!
Cravath >> Weil ~ Kirkland >>> Fried Frank. The only name on your list that stands out M&A-wise is Cravath and exit options from Cravath are far superior to those at the other three. Kirkland is second but not a close second.

I can't tell you at what point to give up culture over prestige. That is too dependent on you and your personality and your stats. As I mentioned above, the better your school and grades, the more leeway you have firm-wise before the downgrade in prestige starts to bite you. HYSCCN with top grades can go to a V20 over a V10 and probably not suffer too much as far as exit options go. Tier 1 had better go to the best firm he gets - regardless of how high his grades are - if he cares a lot about access to the best exit options.

Questions to ask yourself include: If you are happier at a lower ranked firm, can you deal with being shut out of certain exit options or needing more work experience to land certain exit options? On the other hand, can you deal with hating your day to day life as long as doors are flung open at the name on your resume? Cravath is a miserable place with great exit options while Fried Frank is a mediocre (comparatively) place with perhaps a better quality of life. Personally, I'd choose Cravath because no matter what happens, you're at least guaranteed a well respected brand. There are no guarantees at a place like Fried Frank because you could end up working for the firm's one asshole partner at which point you're screwed prestige-wise and screwed lifestyle-wise. But that's just me.

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:53 am

V10 anon.
Anonymous User wrote:V10 anon.
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hey, thanks for answering questions.

I just finished up with EIP and was lucky to do very well w/ callbacks and offers. I'm now considering several offers in the V20 range and one in V50 that is very specialized and well regarded in a particular practice area that I would be interested in.

My only regret was that I might have been too conservative in my bidding out of fear of not getting a job. I didn't get a chance to interview with any V15 firms, with the exception of one screener I picked up w/ a V5 firm in a market I wasn't really interested in. I got a callback but didn't go. Do you think the difference between a V20 firm and a V10 firm (in terms of prestige, lateral options, etc) is great enough that I should be concerned about this? Should I try to interview with top firms at 3L OCI?

Thanks


Will piggyback off this since we're in a somewhat similar situation.

Considering a V25 in a firm that would be specialized in a certain practice / industry. Also considering V5 and V15 firms that are more general. Is it stupid to take the V25 over the others? What if I think I want to do that sort of work? Should I not specialize right off the bat?
If you're 100% sure that you are going to practice in that narrow area (let's say you were an engineer for years before law school, loved it, and know for sure you are going into patent work), go with the V25. If your "certainty" about practice areas is based on anything other than actual work experience related to that area, then you're not really certain and you should not pigeonhole yourself so early in your career. It's a lot easier to move from a V5/15 to a V25 than vice versa and a lot easier to start general then specialize than to specialize early then fight your way out of being pigeonholed.

I actually have a question for all of you: What's with 2Ls and 3Ls thinking they have to specialize? Is that the advice that law schools are giving nowadays? I don't recall this push to specialize back when I was in law school but now, I get questions all the time about specializing.

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Gecko of Doom » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:I actually have a question for all of you: What's with 2Ls and 3Ls thinking they have to specialize? Is that the advice that law schools are giving nowadays? I don't recall this push to specialize back when I was in law school but now, I get questions all the time about specializing.

Personally, I haven't heard this advice from my school, but I have heard it from a number of practicing attorneys over the course of the interview season. Basically, the context is "you should find ways to make yourself indispensable to the firm, and developing a specialization early on is one way of doing that."

Happy to hear advice from another perspective, though.

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby nycwm » Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:V10 anon.
Anonymous User wrote:I fear that I have been receiving post CB rejections from firms because of the questions I ask in response to "Do you have any questions for me?".

I normally ask how they ended up at their firm/practice area, what they like about their firm, what they look for when hiring etc. I try to keep it general and not get too specific into cases/deals they've been involved with. Should I do that instead?

What questions do you recommend me asking? Thanks in advance. Much appreciated.
Those are great questions and I don't think your questions are the problem. What else are you going to ask - what color panties do you have on or something? How do you respond to their questions? Do you keep the conversation flowing? Might your responses be terse, staccato or sound canned? How are your body language and eye contact? Are your suit and socks conservative?

Assuming you're doing nothing wrong, where did you go to school (HYS, CCN and other such ranges are fine) and what was your standing (top 5%, 10% etc)? In this economy and with class sizes being so small, when everyone who gets a call back does well, I suspect many firms just fill their classes with those who have the best combo of school and rank and pass on the rest. There's little attempt to value soft factors.


I try to maintain good eye contact and keep the conversation organic. However, I don't go to a top school. I am at a T2 school. Ranked 1st in my class, and my school is in a major market NYC. Could be my school, which obviously I cannot change now, so I am trying to fix what I can before all my interviews are done. Have 3 V10 screeners in the next week so if I don't have a chance because of my school, it's good to know it's probably not the questions i've been asking, since that what I've been thinking it was all along.


Anon who is ranked first at NYC T2 should PM me because I have relevant experience.

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:57 pm

HYS 2L here. Got a lot of CBs in V2-V60 range, but got completely shut out of V10 after callbacks (plenty of offers in V15 and up). I interview well (or so I've been told by OCS and screener/callback interviewers) and did just as well interviewing with V10 firms as V50.

I'm really just trying to figure out why I got essentially systematically dinged at all V10s (5 of them) and in at all V15 and up many with very small summer classes. My thought is that I have basically no work experience and went to an unknown undergrad. Could that have possibly shut me out?

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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:01 pm

V10 anon.
Gecko of Doom wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I actually have a question for all of you: What's with 2Ls and 3Ls thinking they have to specialize? Is that the advice that law schools are giving nowadays? I don't recall this push to specialize back when I was in law school but now, I get questions all the time about specializing.

Personally, I haven't heard this advice from my school, but I have heard it from a number of practicing attorneys over the course of the interview season. Basically, the context is "you should find ways to make yourself indispensable to the firm, and developing a specialization early on is one way of doing that."

Happy to hear advice from another perspective, though.

Those lawyers are giving dangerous advice. The sad truth is that specializing early in one's legal career will not make one indispensable because there is no such thing as being indispensable to a firm unless you are a top rainmaker, top politician, or a member of the Kennedy, Bush, Rockefeller and other such powerful families that most firms are afraid to cross. I don't mean a distant relative either. I mean close enough that, for instance, Caroline Kennedy will be making calls to figure out why you got fired and to demand your immediate reinstatement. Otherwise, you're dispensable.

Specializing in medicine makes you indispensable because there are only like 100 spots in the entire nation for some medical specialties. Specializing in law provides no such peace of mind, however, because the legal market is supersaturated with eager and brilliant lawyers who have excellent credentials and there are simply too many top lawyers for employers to absorb (talk less of mediocre lawyers who can pose as top lawyers because they went to HYS or whatever - you have to compete with those too). In fact, specializing early in your career can narrow your exit options and that is bad in this kind of economy. Better to work on a wide range of matters so you can pass yourself off as whatever you need to in order to get the next job should you be thrown out of big law. Inevitably, as you mature in your practice, your career will begin to lean towards certain matters over others because of client demand and your reputation (ex: do a great job on a 10b-5 case and odds are you'll keep getting staffed on them until that's your forte). Deliberately aiming at a narrow practice before the needs of the market and your employer have pointed you in that direction though is foolhardy.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:08 pm

V10 anon.
Anonymous User wrote:HYS 2L here. Got a lot of CBs in V2-V60 range, but got completely shut out of V10 after callbacks (plenty of offers in V15 and up). I interview well (or so I've been told by OCS and screener/callback interviewers) and did just as well interviewing with V10 firms as V50.

I'm really just trying to figure out why I got essentially systematically dinged at all V10s (5 of them) and in at all V15 and up many with very small summer classes. My thought is that I have basically no work experience and went to an unknown undergrad. Could that have possibly shut me out?
Especially at top law schools, most law students lack work experience so I doubt that is it. Your unknown undergrad might be a tiebreaker in the sense that all things equal, firms might hire a Phi Beta Kappa at Princeton over you. I doubt this is the explanation for all of your dings though. How are your grades? HYS is a dime a dozen at V10s and even V15s. In fact, sometimes, I doubletake when I come across a lower T14 in the list of those my firm wants me to interview because the list usually goes something like H, Y, S, H, H, Columbia, NYU, NYU, Columbia, Chicago, S, H, Y and a UVa or UMich thrown in to make things interesting. If your main selling point is your school then you should not feel as if you have underachieved. V20 and below is right about where the demand for you is in this market. It's a very tough market and that's not your fault, so don't get down on yourself.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273142
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V10 Midlevel Associate. Taking Questions.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:V10 anon.
Anonymous User wrote:HYS 2L here. Got a lot of CBs in V2-V60 range, but got completely shut out of V10 after callbacks (plenty of offers in V15 and up). I interview well (or so I've been told by OCS and screener/callback interviewers) and did just as well interviewing with V10 firms as V50.

I'm really just trying to figure out why I got essentially systematically dinged at all V10s (5 of them) and in at all V15 and up many with very small summer classes. My thought is that I have basically no work experience and went to an unknown undergrad. Could that have possibly shut me out?
Especially at top law schools, most law students lack work experience so I doubt that is it. Your unknown undergrad might be a tiebreaker in the sense that all things equal, firms might hire a Phi Beta Kappa at Princeton over you. I doubt this is the explanation for all of your dings though. How are your grades? HYS is a dime a dozen at V10s and even V15s. In fact, sometimes, I doubletake when I come across a lower T14 in the list of those my firm wants me to interview because the list usually goes something like H, Y, S, H, H, Columbia, NYU, NYU, Columbia, Chicago, S, H, Y and a UVa or UMich thrown in to make things interesting. If your main selling point is your school then you should not feel as if you have underachieved. V20 and below is right about where the demand for you is in this market. It's a very tough market and that's not your fault, so don't get down on yourself.



Interesting. Thanks for the thoughts. I actually transferred in from a T-14 with very strong grades, so I'm not sure...




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