Worth an Update?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273252
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Worth an Update?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:00 am

Had three CBs and I am waiting on the results. All are currently still within the timeline given by the recruiters, etc.

Recently got selected for a program at my T14 secondary journal that guarantees that my note will be published, and published pretty early in my LS career. Updated my resume.

Should I update the firms?

With #1, I feel like between my thank you, a Q I had about the hiring process, and me sending my expense forms, it might be too much contact. I probably liked this one the most but it also gives me the worst uninformed gut-feeling about my prospects, FWIW.

With #2, the update might appeal to them. Almost every one of their associates clerks before they start, and publishing a good note early on should help in the clerkship search. My only contact post-CB was a thank you.

With #3, who knows? Similar to #2, my only post-CB contact was a short thank-you.

anon168
Posts: 920
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:36 pm

Re: Worth an Update?

Postby anon168 » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:

Should I update the firms?



No.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273252
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Worth an Update?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:13 am

anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:

Should I update the firms?



No.


Could you expand upon that a little bit? One-word answers from semi-anonymous internet people are less than helpful. Thanks.

anon168
Posts: 920
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:36 pm

Re: Worth an Update?

Postby anon168 » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:21 am

Anonymous User wrote:
anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:

Should I update the firms?



No.


Could you expand upon that a little bit? One-word answers from semi-anonymous internet people are less than helpful. Thanks.


At best, the firm will not care. At worst, the firm will think you are pest.

When I was doing OCI, I could care less later on that a particular candidate wrote on to LR. And whether or not they did (or some other journal) never made a difference to whether they got an offer for a SA, or whether they got a perm offer post-SA.

Once you leave the office after your CB, your die has been cast. For better or worse.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273252
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Worth an Update?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:36 am

anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:

Should I update the firms?



No.


Could you expand upon that a little bit? One-word answers from semi-anonymous internet people are less than helpful. Thanks.


At best, the firm will not care. At worst, the firm will think you are pest.

When I was doing OCI, I could care less later on that a particular candidate wrote on to LR. And whether or not they did (or some other journal) never made a difference to whether they got an offer for a SA, or whether they got a perm offer post-SA.

Once you leave the office after your CB, your die has been cast. For better or worse.


Thanks for elaborating. That seems illogical. While I question whether my particular update is worth the bother, I wouldn't hesitate to update a firm if, say, I wrote on to LR, or won a gold medal in the Olympics. Why would you ignore post-CB developments that would make a difference in your decision if you knew about them pre-CB?

And do you have a reason to think this sentiment is universally shared by recruiters and hiring committees?

anon168
Posts: 920
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:36 pm

Re: Worth an Update?

Postby anon168 » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for elaborating. That seems illogical. While I question whether my particular update is worth the bother, I wouldn't hesitate to update a firm if, say, I wrote on to LR, or won a gold medal in the Olympics. Why would you ignore post-CB developments that would make a difference in your decision if you knew about them pre-CB?


For the same reasons we never made offers (explicitly) contingent upon your 2L grades.

Anonymous User wrote:And do you have a reason to think this sentiment is universally shared by recruiters and hiring committees?


I can't speak for all of the hundreds of law firms out there, but from where I came from and from the people I've talked to, no one really gave a darn.

Look at it this way. Your grades got you the CB. If you went to a school where LR was based on grades, then the fact that you made LR post-CB is not news, much less newsworthy.

If you went to a school where LR was write-on, then the fact that you wrote-on is great for you, but again we gave you the CB because of your grades -- so one has little relation to the other. (And we can't read too much into LR where the selection is write-on, because some may decide not to write-on, or do moot court, so the pool that the LR comm is selecting from is sort of unneutral and self-selected.)

Anonymous User
Posts: 273252
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Worth an Update?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:22 am

It seems like you're basically saying the limited value of most post-CB credentials exceeds the cost of factoring them into the decision. That makes sense.

You do realize that I'm not actually talking about "writing on" or "grading on" to LR, right? I was already on my secondary journal (grades and the written portion are weighed almost equally at my school) when I got my callback.

My recent update is acceptance into a program where I focus this semester on writing my note (with guidance) and I am guaranteed that it will be published soon thereafter. The admission to the program was somewhat selective (a couple of students out of 50-odd 2Ls) and based on my note proposal, preliminary research, etc. So, it doesn't track grades as closely as some of the stuff you discuss, but is probably overall a less valuable credential (than LR/main journal, anyway), at least until the note is published and starts getting cited.

I think that I mostly agree with your advice. The biglaw hiring model---where grades get you in the door, being reasonably well-versed in the business of the firm keeps you in the door, and some random intuition about your personality actually gets you hired---is what it is. I think I have made the mistake of treating it like a sales job, where reminding the decision-maker why they should decide to hire you until they finally do or don't is perfectly appropriate and expected. Instead, the final cut is just a secretive, impulsive decision based on how whatever you are.

Still, #2 is boutique-y and definitely thinks about things a little bit differently, so I might update them. They would genuinely be interested, but with the others the pest-factor surely outweighs potential gain.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273252
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Worth an Update?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:43 am

One of the things all of the firms I have worked for consider in their hiring decision is how committed a candidate seems to actually working at a firm. The only reason firms care about journal is because it is another sorting mechanism to make their job easier and it demonstrates that you are willing to work. Publishing isn't even a blip on the radar, and if anything, indicates that you are hoping to jump to academia.

Everything on your resume is a sorting mechanism to figure out who to take the time to interview/callback. I agree with anon168, your die is cast once you do the callback. It is not a matter, as you suggest, that there is a cost to factoring in new info. If you made it in the door for a callback, the firm decided you were qualified. The callback determines whether or not you are a "fit" for the firm. No paper credential is going to move you up that ranking (but I would actually be concerned that you could move yourself down). Your interviewers either thought you were someone they would want to work with or they didn't. Your interests either lined up with the firm's growth projections or they didn't. And just because you didn't get an offer doesn't mean you were "bad" in those categories, it just means someone else was better.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273252
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Worth an Update?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:One of the things all of the firms I have worked for consider in their hiring decision is how committed a candidate seems to actually working at a firm. The only reason firms care about journal is because it is another sorting mechanism to make their job easier and it demonstrates that you are willing to work. Publishing isn't even a blip on the radar, and if anything, indicates that you are hoping to jump to academia.

Everything on your resume is a sorting mechanism to figure out who to take the time to interview/callback. I agree with anon168, your die is cast once you do the callback. It is not a matter, as you suggest, that there is a cost to factoring in new info. If you made it in the door for a callback, the firm decided you were qualified. The callback determines whether or not you are a "fit" for the firm. No paper credential is going to move you up that ranking (but I would actually be concerned that you could move yourself down). Your interviewers either thought you were someone they would want to work with or they didn't. Your interests either lined up with the firm's growth projections or they didn't. And just because you didn't get an offer doesn't mean you were "bad" in those categories, it just means someone else was better.


Thank you (and anon168) for the helpful advice.

I hope my future publication doesn't send an academia signal. If anything, it will be more like an extended version of one of the publications listed in every firm lawyer's bio. I am really trying to write something useful.

Your description of the process feels like it is spot-on. The implication would seem to be that, once selected for a CB, you are on a level playing-field with every other person selected for a CB. Then, it is just a matter of (A) demonstrating that you have a working knowledge of the firm; and (B) all of the intangible qualities we're going to call "fit."

I don't want to speak to soon, since I have CBs I am waiting to get offers from, but (B) has been a tough nut to crack indeed.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.