Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

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Drop out?

Yes.
5
12%
No.
26
63%
Take a leave of absence - transfer next year
10
24%
 
Total votes: 41

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Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:33 pm

UT, top 10-15%, Law Review. Our OCI is preselect. I got the full 25 but then dropped off my resume at different career suits and got 4 more. Nothing. Dead silence. Native Texan, too.

1 CB from a job fair. Did it on Tuesday, heard that the recruiting committee met on Wednesday, silence until now.

I did several mock interviews with the CSO, and they couldn't find anything major wrong. I think I may just have bad social skills and be terrible at connecting with the interviewer (hearing problems for the first 5 years of one's life and then being homeschooled for 17 years has a way of screwing up one's social skills).

I am leaning towards just dropping out and figuring out something else to do that doesn't require tons of people skills (like a technical field). I have a lazy liberal arts degree, so I'd have to pretty much start from the beginning. Everyone I talk to says I should continue, that my social skills really aren't that bad, and that to the extent they are, I should work on them. My thought is that law is such a competitive field, so there maybe is no room for error at all? The slow, gradual improvement in my social skills I have seen since age 17 when I left home probably is not going to accelerate without me doing something different than I have been doing (what that would be, I'm not sure). I've seen much more socially awkward people get jobs, though. Do they just have much higher grades? Or is it possible to have a unique problem that is mostly confined to not being able to connect with the interviewer (different background, different socio-economic status, etc.)? If so, should I just quit law or do something to work on this (what? I have no idea).

My parents think I should just take a leave of absence and transfer to Columbia or NYU since I want to work in that area anyway. But I'm not sure taking on all that debt would be a good idea based on the results I've seen.

I am willing to stay in law only if I think I would be good at it. The results I have seen so far (the judgment of 29 experienced hiring committees) have not been encouraging.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:49 am, edited 4 times in total.

09042014
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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:UT, top 10-15%, Law Review. Our OCI is preselect. I got the full 25 but then dropped off my resume at different career suits and got 4 more. Nothing. Dead silence. Native Texan, too.

1 CB from a job fair. Did it on Tuesday, heard that the recruiting committee met on Wednesday, silence until now.

I did several mock interviews with the CSO, and they couldn't find anything major wrong. I think I may just have bad social skills and be terrible at connecting with the interviewer (being deaf for the first 5 years of one's life and then being homeschooled for 17 years has a way of screwing up one's social skills).

I am leaning towards just dropping out and figuring out something else to do that doesn't require tons of people skills (like a technical field). I have a lazy liberal arts degree, so I'd have to pretty much start from the beginning. Everyone I talk to says I should continue, that my social skills really aren't that bad, and that to the extent they are, I should work on them. My thought is that law is such a competitive field, so there maybe is no room for error at all? The slow, gradual improvement in my social skills I have seen since age 17 when I left home probably is not going to accelerate without me doing something different than I have been doing (what that would be, I'm not sure). I've seen much more socially awkward people get jobs, though. Do they just have much higher grades? Or is it possible to have a unique problem that is mostly confined to not being able to connect with the interviewer (different background, different socio-economic status, etc.)? If so, should I just quit law or do something to work on this (what? I have no idea).

My parents think I should just take a leave of absence and transfer to Columbia or NYU since I want to work in that area anyway. But I'm not sure taking on all that debt would be a good idea based on the results I've seen.

I am willing to stay in law only if I think I would be good at it. The results I have seen so far (the judgment of 29 experienced hiring committees) have not been encouraging. Oh yeah...for undisclosed reasons, I probably cannot work in government, unless it's small, local, and state government (probably a shitty job).


Damn son, 0/29 preselects is epically bad. Your career services is retarded if they can't figure out what your deal is in the interviews.

I'd try software engineering if I were you. Take some basic classes at a local community college. If you like it, try to get a degree from your local state school.

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:41 pm

Sorry to hear it. You could try segueing into a business profession. Banks and firms hire liberal arts degrees more than you would think.

Best of luck.

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sorry to hear it. You could try segueing into a business profession. Banks and firms hire liberal arts degrees more than you would think.

Best of luck.


Ha. Someone who doesn't have the qualities to get hired in big law is going to have an even harder time in business.

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:49 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:UT, top 10-15%, Law Review. Our OCI is preselect. I got the full 25 but then dropped off my resume at different career suits and got 4 more. Nothing. Dead silence. Native Texan, too.

1 CB from a job fair. Did it on Tuesday, heard that the recruiting committee met on Wednesday, silence until now.

I did several mock interviews with the CSO, and they couldn't find anything major wrong. I think I may just have bad social skills and be terrible at connecting with the interviewer (being deaf for the first 5 years of one's life and then being homeschooled for 17 years has a way of screwing up one's social skills).

I am leaning towards just dropping out and figuring out something else to do that doesn't require tons of people skills (like a technical field). I have a lazy liberal arts degree, so I'd have to pretty much start from the beginning. Everyone I talk to says I should continue, that my social skills really aren't that bad, and that to the extent they are, I should work on them. My thought is that law is such a competitive field, so there maybe is no room for error at all? The slow, gradual improvement in my social skills I have seen since age 17 when I left home probably is not going to accelerate without me doing something different than I have been doing (what that would be, I'm not sure). I've seen much more socially awkward people get jobs, though. Do they just have much higher grades? Or is it possible to have a unique problem that is mostly confined to not being able to connect with the interviewer (different background, different socio-economic status, etc.)? If so, should I just quit law or do something to work on this (what? I have no idea).

My parents think I should just take a leave of absence and transfer to Columbia or NYU since I want to work in that area anyway. But I'm not sure taking on all that debt would be a good idea based on the results I've seen.

I am willing to stay in law only if I think I would be good at it. The results I have seen so far (the judgment of 29 experienced hiring committees) have not been encouraging. Oh yeah...for undisclosed reasons, I probably cannot work in government, unless it's small, local, and state government (probably a shitty job).


Damn son, 0/29 preselects is epically bad. Your career services is retarded if they can't figure out what your deal is in the interviews.

I'd try software engineering if I were you. Take some basic classes at a local community college. If you like it, try to get a degree from your local state school.


I had a relatively similar experience. 1/23 preselects and I had done multiple mock interviews with CDO beforehand, even had one taped that we watched over. Nothing major wrong that they could tell me either. Not really sure what to do either.

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:49 pm

I'm in a very similar place to you OP, although I didn't have to struggle with a disability early in life. My conversion rate was slightly better, but I still way underperformed my credentials. It's really frustrating being told you're not doing anything wrong, and still striking out. I also focused mainly on NY. I wouldn't know if this applies to you, but some blunt feedback I got recently at an interview was to the effect that saying I wanted corporate/a big firm environment was a hard sell because my background was so liberal arts-oriented, my resume didn't indicate any interest in finance/business. People on TLS like to say this doesn't matter, and I think that probably generally it doesn't. But I think it might come into play more if like OP and myself, you might be a weaker interviewer or at least not an obvious outgoing or type-A person. Having less debt does make it very tempting to just call it quits.

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm in a very similar place to you OP, although I didn't have to struggle with a disability early in life. My conversion rate was slightly better, but I still way underperformed my credentials. It's really frustrating being told you're not doing anything wrong, and still striking out. I also focused mainly on NY. I wouldn't know if this applies to you, but some blunt feedback I got recently at an interview was to the effect that saying I wanted corporate/a big firm environment was a hard sell because my background was so liberal arts-oriented, my resume didn't indicate any interest in finance/business. People on TLS like to say this doesn't matter, and I think that probably generally it doesn't. But I think it might come into play more if like OP and myself, you might be a weaker interviewer or at least not an obvious outgoing or type-A person. Having less debt does make it very tempting to just call it quits.


It does indeed apply to me. Not only liberal arts but also PI. But don't most law students have liberal arts backgrounds? And someone has to go corporate? I always said I wanted transactional law in interviews, unless I was interviewing with a lit boutique (but I didn't get called back at those either). I don't think I want to do litigation (didn't even make the cut for the Hutchison Moot Court competition). So quit?

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:54 pm

I also had a bit of PI experience, but it was bizarre to me that a firm would pigeonhole me as only wanting that given that it was not very extensive. My summer experience wasn't even in PI. And again this was just something that one interviewer said, so I have no idea if it was the reason I underperformed more generally. I think the more general fear was that even if I got the job, I would be someone who didn't really have a passion for the position and would be gone in a few years. (Which is strange because I thought people left law firms this soon generally anyway.) I can't advise you what to do, because like I said I'm in the same place as you, and will probably make one of these threads myself if things don't go the other way soon. Good luck either way.

- 9:49.

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:57 pm

Are you ugly and fat females? They do much worse at OCI. If not, I'm guessing your career services are just being too kind.

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:01 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Are you ugly and fat females? They do much worse at OCI. If not, I'm guessing your career services are just being too kind.


No, above average male. Not bad, especially for law school. I've seen much worse get jobs. No bragging, I just say this to add more information.

The bolded is most certainly true. However, I both hinted and outright said I am dropping out if I don't get a job. I fail to see why it would be in their best interest to hide the truth since attrition affects the school's rankings, and you never know who might go on Above the Law these days to out someone or some school vindictively.

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:10 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Are you ugly and fat females? They do much worse at OCI. If not, I'm guessing your career services are just being too kind.


No. One of the mock interviews was with an attorney who does interviews regularly. When he was to give me feedback, he started with "I'm not really sure why you're here - you seem to be very well practiced at interviewing and very good at it." It's really frustrating to get that feedback beforehand and then have terrible results.

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:11 pm

Don't drop out. I'm always in the no-quitter camp. You have no debt, so what really do you have to lose? You can always do something like policy or government work if those callbacks don't result in anything (it's also a bit early methinks).

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:14 pm

You said you have no debt. Will you have no debt when you graduate? If so, maybe holding out and trying to find a type of law you really want to do.

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Don't drop out. I'm always in the no-quitter camp. You have no debt, so what really do you have to lose? You can always do something like policy or government work if those callbacks don't result in anything (it's also a bit early methinks).


He has two years of time and energy to lose. And plus, a lot of PI/Gov't jobs are less grade focused and more resume focused, right? So he might even have less of an edge there. It's unclear whether OP would meet the criteria for those jobs, and whether it'd be worth it to him to stick it out for two years, and possibly end up with something that wasn't as fulfilling to him as something else he could start working towards right now.

-9:49

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:34 pm

OP here - no debt when I graduate.

It seems that moderately high GPA's--top 25% through top 10%-- striking out seems to happen at UT more often than it does at other schools (just anecdotal evidence). Could it be that Texas firms are more "fit" focused than NYC or other major market firms?

I could understand Baker Botts taking a chance on a 4.0 introvert (who doesn't want a chancellor?), but they have no reason to take a 3.70 introvert over a life-of-the party with a 3.4.

My CB was from a job fair in NYC. Would my results, by any chance, be better just by transferring to NYU?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby sunynp » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:41 pm

1. Whether you drop out know or not you need to try to get some insight into what you are doing that is not connecting with interviewers.

2. Get career services to call firms and get better feedback in why they don't like you. It could be something subtle.

3. It is very difficult to get a reading on your personality. You aren't making friends by threatening to drop out if you don't get a job. I think that shows possibly a level of immaturity - even if you feel that way, threatening OCI about it shows poor judgement. The legal community is much smaller than you think, you might be getting a reputation as a demanding pain in the ass.

4. Nothing you have posted indicates that you want to be a lawyer. Do you still want to practice law?

5. Did you interview with firms in the new York market? If so, I'm not sure that transferring would help you.

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:51 pm

1. Whether you drop out know or not you need to try to get some insight into what you are doing that is not connecting with interviewers.

Tried, hard to say. I can guess that I am just less engaging, less interesting, and less comfortable with the process than others. I am sometimes shy, soft-spoken, and I have trouble finding common interests or common topics with the interviewer. I haven't really been to any of the cities for which I am interviewing (or any cities at all, really), and I follow pro football a little bit, but it never came up. A practicing attorney I talked to who signed up to be a "mentor" with UT students said he figured I would have trouble connecting with interviewers. He said it was something that could be cured, but I'm not convinced without special training that I cannot afford.

2. Get career services to call firms and get better feedback in why they don't like you. It could be something subtle.

They did. "we don't remember him, we interviewed a lot of people" was the typical answer. Another was "so-and-so partner wanted him, but in the end, we decided to call back others."

3. It is very difficult to get a reading on your personality. You aren't making friends by threatening to drop out if you don't get a job. I think that shows possibly a level of immaturity - even if you feel that way, threatening OCI about it shows poor judgement. The legal community is much smaller than you think, you might be getting a reputation as a demanding pain in the ass.

It was more a plaintive, "should I take a leave of absence and redo OCI? Does this mean I am not suitable for law?" rather than a threat.

4. Nothing you have posted indicates that you want to be a lawyer. Do you still want to practice law?

Honestly, how would I know without actually practicing law? I worked for a judge over the summer, did not like it that much, but it wasn't awful. I have an INTP personality, which is typically a fairly good fit for law. I like reading and writing, and I like solving complex problems. Law involves a lot of these things. I wouldn't be willing to do it for $40,000 a year, however.

5. Did you interview with firms in the new York market? If so, I'm not sure that transferring would help you.

Yes, my results were better (1 CB vs. none even though UT doesn't typically place well in NYC), but still awful.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:55 pm

No debt is a pretty damn big deal. In my opinion, you would be remiss not to finish your JD (you're very young - a decent amount of people your are age taking victory laps in college). A JD won't hurt your resume. If anything, you can pair it with an MBA, phD, etc. and definitely find work, especially given that the economy will hopefully improve by the time you're out.

Also, consider that you've only interviewed with big law. Other options exist. My LSAT tutor went to UT law, opened his own firm after, and seems to be doing quite well. If nothing else, one of the many UT alums in Texas with his/her own firm would hook you up on grades alone.

Re. interviewing - I go to a T30 and am 20-25%. I've done better than my peers at OCI, and I attribute any success not to looks, but to trying damn hard to overcome my naturally introverted nature by focusing on being energetic, genuinely friendly and interested, and excited about law. My UG was in business (which seems to make a difference). I also try to stay up to date on corporate/economic issues. This is not hard and doesn't requite a business degree - read the economist, NYT dealbook, and WSJ every morning (this is especially helpful for NY, which has a lot of finance work). You'll be surprised how fast you learn about everything. I also put a hobbies/interests section on my resume with honest and legitimate hobbies on it that I am knowledgeable about; I think this is imperative for anyone to do as it can lead to a lot of interview conversation.

Stay the course. No debt is a HUGE deal and my opinion would differ if you were taking loans.

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:No debt is a pretty damn big deal. In my opinion, you would be remiss not to finish your JD (you're very young - a decent amount of people your are age taking victory laps in college). A JD won't hurt your resume. If anything, you can pair it with an MBA, phD, etc. and definitely find work, especially given that the economy will hopefully improve by the time you're out.

Also, consider that you've only interviewed with big law. Other options exist. My LSAT tutor went to UT law, opened his own firm after, and seems to be doing quite well. If nothing else, one of the many UT alums in Texas with his/her own firm would hook you up on grades alone.

Re. interviewing - I go to a T30 and am 20-25%. I've done better than my peers at OCI, and I attribute any success not to looks, but to trying damn hard to overcome my naturally introverted nature by focusing on being energetic, genuinely friendly and interested, and excited about law. My UG was in business (which seems to make a difference). I also try to stay up to date on corporate/economic issues. This is not hard and doesn't requite a business degree - read the economist, read NYT dealbook, and read WSJ every morning. You'll be surprised how fast you learn about everything.

Stay the course. No debt is a HUGE deal and my opinion would differ if you were taking loans.


I'm not sure if I genuinely hate law, if I just hate Texas and UT, or if this process has colored my perspective. Does it mean anything that I am not registered for classes and don't feel like I would do very well if I were to attempt this semester? I did not feel comfortable around the people here from day 1, but I chalked this up to my own issues (which is probably true anyway).

If staying the course means working at some Texas firm in a small town, I think I am definitely going to quit.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:No debt is a pretty damn big deal. In my opinion, you would be remiss not to finish your JD (you're very young - a decent amount of people your are age taking victory laps in college). A JD won't hurt your resume. If anything, you can pair it with an MBA, phD, etc. and definitely find work, especially given that the economy will hopefully improve by the time you're out.

Also, consider that you've only interviewed with big law. Other options exist. My LSAT tutor went to UT law, opened his own firm after, and seems to be doing quite well. If nothing else, one of the many UT alums in Texas with his/her own firm would hook you up on grades alone.

Re. interviewing - I go to a T30 and am 20-25%. I've done better than my peers at OCI, and I attribute any success not to looks, but to trying damn hard to overcome my naturally introverted nature by focusing on being energetic, genuinely friendly and interested, and excited about law. My UG was in business (which seems to make a difference). I also try to stay up to date on corporate/economic issues. This is not hard and doesn't requite a business degree - read the economist, read NYT dealbook, and read WSJ every morning. You'll be surprised how fast you learn about everything.

Stay the course. No debt is a HUGE deal and my opinion would differ if you were taking loans.


Unfortunately, these all require subscriptions. Being debt free does not mean being cash heavy. WSJ especially is pretty damned expensive. I read the Huffington Post and Bloomberg, and I have had real conversations about developments in various industries during interviews and a CB. I may not act excited about law. No idea what that even means. Law is huge, amorphous, and abstract. How do you get excited about law in general as opposed to some area in law (for example: civil rights or tax)?


I don't have subscriptions to any and read the 10 free articles on NYT (between phone, computer, laptop, that adds up) and blogs/opinions on the economist. Any cursory google search will lead you to blogs and other news sources that will not only explain what's going on, but give you at least one side's perspective.

One way I convey excitement is asking the interviewer about their favorite deal (transactional) or case (lit). When they tell me about it, I get genuinely excitement, which probably conveys in my body language, and usually make a remark like "that seems so fun!" I'm not BS-ing anyone and I truly think taking a deposition or working with a whacky client on a deal would truly be exciting. Smile, nod, sit up straight, but don't overdo it and appear plastic and forced.

Also, try to tell stories that show you're a genuinely kind or ambitious person. Reflect a bit on what you're proud of in life and the stories will come to you.

A lot of Texas firms do appear fratty. I'm a native Texan and am trying to get back there. However, firms like JD, Fulbright, and even BG have seemed faaaaaaar less fratty than firms in my law school's market.

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:No debt is a pretty damn big deal. In my opinion, you would be remiss not to finish your JD (you're very young - a decent amount of people your are age taking victory laps in college). A JD won't hurt your resume. If anything, you can pair it with an MBA, phD, etc. and definitely find work, especially given that the economy will hopefully improve by the time you're out.

Also, consider that you've only interviewed with big law. Other options exist. My LSAT tutor went to UT law, opened his own firm after, and seems to be doing quite well. If nothing else, one of the many UT alums in Texas with his/her own firm would hook you up on grades alone.

Re. interviewing - I go to a T30 and am 20-25%. I've done better than my peers at OCI, and I attribute any success not to looks, but to trying damn hard to overcome my naturally introverted nature by focusing on being energetic, genuinely friendly and interested, and excited about law. My UG was in business (which seems to make a difference). I also try to stay up to date on corporate/economic issues. This is not hard and doesn't requite a business degree - read the economist, read NYT dealbook, and read WSJ every morning. You'll be surprised how fast you learn about everything.

Stay the course. No debt is a HUGE deal and my opinion would differ if you were taking loans.


Unfortunately, these all require subscriptions. Being debt free does not mean being cash heavy. WSJ especially is pretty damned expensive. I read the Huffington Post and Bloomberg, and I have had real conversations about developments in various industries during interviews and a CB. I may not act excited about law. No idea what that even means. Law is huge, amorphous, and abstract. How do you get excited about law in general as opposed to some area in law (for example: civil rights or tax)?


I don't have subscriptions to any and read the 10 free articles on NYT (between phone, computer, laptop, that adds up) and blogs/opinions on the economist. Any cursory google search will lead you to blogs and other news sources that will not only explain what's going on, but give you at least one side's perspective.

One way I convey excitement is asking the interviewer about their favorite deal (transactional) or case (lit). When they tell me about it, I get genuinely excitement, which probably conveys in my body language, and usually make a remark like "that seems so fun!" I'm not BS-ing anyone and I truly think taking a deposition or working with a whacky client on a deal would truly be exciting. Smile, nod, sit up straight, but don't overdo it and appear plastic and forced.

Also, try to tell stories that show you're a genuinely kind or ambitious person. Reflect a bit on what you're proud of in life and the stories will come to you.


Yeah, I think I range from shaky to just awful awful awful at all of this. I have an interesting resume, but I'm horrible at sounding interesting in a 20 minute interview (though, again, that might be my experience coloring the process). Which is odd. I was an SAT teacher in a former life who got outstanding feedback and had no trouble telling plenty of jokes and keeping kids engaged. Got more bonuses than my peers and saw some of them fired simply for not entertaining enough. It could just be something about the lawyer personality that I don't connect with. I did get some laughs and had some pretty casual conversations, though. Not always, but sometimes. This can't be all of it.

Whatever it is, fixing my shortcomings seems like climbing Mount Everest. It's gotta be something so nitpicky, something so subtle, or a combination of multiple things. I can't even get helpful feedback. I've tried talking to friends, family, peers not in law. Nothing really useful. I have no idea where to even start.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby bk1 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Unfortunately, these all require subscriptions.


Your law library probably has subscriptions to all those things.

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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:No debt is a pretty damn big deal. In my opinion, you would be remiss not to finish your JD (you're very young - a decent amount of people your are age taking victory laps in college). A JD won't hurt your resume. If anything, you can pair it with an MBA, phD, etc. and definitely find work, especially given that the economy will hopefully improve by the time you're out.

Also, consider that you've only interviewed with big law. Other options exist. My LSAT tutor went to UT law, opened his own firm after, and seems to be doing quite well. If nothing else, one of the many UT alums in Texas with his/her own firm would hook you up on grades alone.

Re. interviewing - I go to a T30 and am 20-25%. I've done better than my peers at OCI, and I attribute any success not to looks, but to trying damn hard to overcome my naturally introverted nature by focusing on being energetic, genuinely friendly and interested, and excited about law. My UG was in business (which seems to make a difference). I also try to stay up to date on corporate/economic issues. This is not hard and doesn't requite a business degree - read the economist, read NYT dealbook, and read WSJ every morning. You'll be surprised how fast you learn about everything.

Stay the course. No debt is a HUGE deal and my opinion would differ if you were taking loans.


Unfortunately, these all require subscriptions. Being debt free does not mean being cash heavy. WSJ especially is pretty damned expensive. I read the Huffington Post and Bloomberg, and I have had real conversations about developments in various industries during interviews and a CB. I may not act excited about law. No idea what that even means. Law is huge, amorphous, and abstract. How do you get excited about law in general as opposed to some area in law (for example: civil rights or tax)?


I don't have subscriptions to any and read the 10 free articles on NYT (between phone, computer, laptop, that adds up) and blogs/opinions on the economist. Any cursory google search will lead you to blogs and other news sources that will not only explain what's going on, but give you at least one side's perspective.

One way I convey excitement is asking the interviewer about their favorite deal (transactional) or case (lit). When they tell me about it, I get genuinely excitement, which probably conveys in my body language, and usually make a remark like "that seems so fun!" I'm not BS-ing anyone and I truly think taking a deposition or working with a whacky client on a deal would truly be exciting. Smile, nod, sit up straight, but don't overdo it and appear plastic and forced.


I am downright terrible at sounding excited about anything. THAT was some useful feedback I got from a mock interview. When I do try to appear excited, it is plastic and forced, and I was told to "be yourself" which is not excited about much. I have no idea what to do about this.

Does the fact that I really don't want to continue playing this game, that I just WANT out, mean I am not a good fit for law? I hate this whole process. I have no idea if practice is any better. Is it going to be any different in practice? A friend said my negative attitude towards law is 100% a result of my OCI experience and not something I should take seriously.

Anyway, I need to decide soon. I am not enrolled in any classes, I have not gone to classes for nearly 2 weeks, and late registration deadlines are fast approaching.

Anonymous User
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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:35 pm

I am in a similar position OP at a lower T14. Now it is too late, but in retrospect, I should not have said transactional in my interviews. So, we have liberal arts background, we go to law which is stereotypically seen as litigation, and then we say we want transactional is translated by them: I am not sure what I want to do (that is why liberal arts background) but thought of giving law a chance (that is why law school) but I hate it (that is why transactional interest).

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sunynp
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Re: Bad Interviewing, No Debt, Struck Out, Drop out?

Postby sunynp » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:35 pm

Maybe you need to look at larger new York firms. There is room for quiet smart people in law. Maybe a way to approach this is to be honest, say you are a quiet person instead of trying to be something that you are not? Of something like- I know I come across as quiet but I am very excited about this interview and your firm and this is why.

I'm glad you weren't threatening career services!

I usually tell people to drop out but I think you should hang in there.

You also have to not let this ruin your attitude. You are willing to listen and work hard on yourself. I'm not sure I would give up so easily.




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