LR & Art. III Clerkship + Low Grades

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Anonymous User
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LR & Art. III Clerkship + Low Grades

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:41 am

I've always been curious about this.

This person attended a T14. Law review. SA w/ offer from V10 firm. Top Art. III dist clerkship (CDCA/EDVA/NDIL/SDNY/DDC level). Top circuit clerkship (2/3/7/9). BUT not so good GPA (~3.3 on a 3.0 curve). Not a rich kid, no major connections. Don't ask me how he pulled this off because I don't know.

Coming out of the circuit clerkship now and doesn't want to go back to the V10 for important reasons. I always hear that clerks do well in finding post-clerkship big law employment but clerks tend to have really good grades too. What effect do middling grades have when the person has every other indicator of baller status? I don't know any clerks w/ low grades (or at least only this guy is fessing up). This is a real situation.

fraught
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Re: LR & Art. III Clerkship + Low Grades

Postby fraught » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:44 am

Doesn't that put him ~top 25% of his class?

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Re: LR & Art. III Clerkship + Low Grades

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:46 am

fraught wrote:Doesn't that put him ~top 25% of his class?
Thread starter here. I have no idea but a 3.3 isn't looking too good compared to other clerks w/ his credentials who have like 3.6, 3.7, 3.9. No one's stopping traffic over a 3.3. I'd say he's like top third.

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Re: LR & Art. III Clerkship + Low Grades

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:35 am

*bump*

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Re: LR & Art. III Clerkship + Low Grades

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:43 am

a. egregious 3d Cir. trolling
b. top third at a T14 plus 2 federal clerkships will absolutely find something. not saying that he will have big law firms banging down his door (although that's a more likely outcome than unemployment), but he will definitely be able to secure big law employment. his counterparts with 3.6-3.9 grades are probably at schools with 3.3+ curves, fwiw.

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Re: LR & Art. III Clerkship + Low Grades

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:46 am

I think TLS vastly overlooks that the clerkship process is more personalized than firm hiring. Yes, a substantial number of judges go the high grade/LR route with a clerk pre-sort before the apps even reach the judge. Outside the uber competitive districts, other judges will thumb through everything themselves and look at each candidate regardless of school, grades, etc. They need to be able to work with this person closely. A lot of times it's interest driven. I was told that some judges immediately toss people with canned cover letters, no ties to the area, no commitment to public service, etc. It's a far more unpredictable process. I know of someone at median at a T1 who landed one with no connections. It's not as far fetched as TLS makes it out to be sometimes.

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Re: LR & Art. III Clerkship + Low Grades

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:a. egregious 3d Cir. trolling
b. top third at a T14 plus 2 federal clerkships will absolutely find something. not saying that he will have big law firms banging down his door (although that's a more likely outcome than unemployment), but he will definitely be able to secure big law employment. his counterparts with 3.6-3.9 grades are probably at schools with 3.3+ curves, fwiw.
Thread starter here. DGAF about circuit trolling. Just saying this guy's not clerking in buttfuck, alabama. Yea, other schools might have easier curves, but when you see 3.6 on one resume and 3.3 on the other, you assume one guy did a lot better than the other. Maybe not fair but true. You think he'll be able to get another V10?

Do people (apart from obsessed law students) even know about law school curves? I look through resumes for my firm sometimes and honestly, I don't read addendums or whatever else schools send along to rationalize their grads' low grades.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

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fatduck
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Re: LR & Art. III Clerkship + Low Grades

Postby fatduck » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:a. egregious 3d Cir. trolling
b. top third at a T14 plus 2 federal clerkships will absolutely find something. not saying that he will have big law firms banging down his door (although that's a more likely outcome than unemployment), but he will definitely be able to secure big law employment. his counterparts with 3.6-3.9 grades are probably at schools with 3.3+ curves, fwiw.
Thread starter here. DGAF about circuit trolling. Just saying this guy's not clerking in buttfuck, alabama. Yea, other schools might have better curves but who knows that? When you see 3.6 on a resume and 3.3 on the other, you assume one guy did a lot better than the other. Maybe not fair but true. You think he'll be able to get another V10?

yes. i put his chances at approximately 68.348785349398%. next.

Anonymous User
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Re: LR & Art. III Clerkship + Low Grades

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:00 pm

fatduck wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:a. egregious 3d Cir. trolling
b. top third at a T14 plus 2 federal clerkships will absolutely find something. not saying that he will have big law firms banging down his door (although that's a more likely outcome than unemployment), but he will definitely be able to secure big law employment. his counterparts with 3.6-3.9 grades are probably at schools with 3.3+ curves, fwiw.
Thread starter here. DGAF about circuit trolling. Just saying this guy's not clerking in buttfuck, alabama. Yea, other schools might have better curves but who knows that? When you see 3.6 on a resume and 3.3 on the other, you assume one guy did a lot better than the other. Maybe not fair but true. You think he'll be able to get another V10?

yes. i put his chances at approximately 68.348785349398%. next.
Threadstarter here. Don't be an asshole, you asshole. I'm asking bc common knowledge is that shitty/average grades get you dinged in this economy BUT law review/clerkship are gold. So what happens when gold meets lead in the same dude? He's asking me but I don't really know bc I graduated before the economy caved on you sorry fucks.

User has been warned.

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fatduck
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Re: LR & Art. III Clerkship + Low Grades

Postby fatduck » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
fatduck wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:a. egregious 3d Cir. trolling
b. top third at a T14 plus 2 federal clerkships will absolutely find something. not saying that he will have big law firms banging down his door (although that's a more likely outcome than unemployment), but he will definitely be able to secure big law employment. his counterparts with 3.6-3.9 grades are probably at schools with 3.3+ curves, fwiw.
Thread starter here. DGAF about circuit trolling. Just saying this guy's not clerking in buttfuck, alabama. Yea, other schools might have better curves but who knows that? When you see 3.6 on a resume and 3.3 on the other, you assume one guy did a lot better than the other. Maybe not fair but true. You think he'll be able to get another V10?

yes. i put his chances at approximately 68.348785349398%. next.
Threadstarter here. Don't be an asshole, you asshole. I'm asking bc common knowledge is that shitty/average grades get you dinged in this economy BUT law review/clerkship are gold. So what happens when gold meets lead in the same dude? He's asking me but I don't really know bc I graduated before the economy caved on you sorry fucks.

i'm sorry, my post was insensitive. the economy is rough, and it's unfortunate that your friend doesn't have some kind of relatively costless mechanism for figuring out if firms are interested in hiring him.

fraught
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Re: LR & Art. III Clerkship + Low Grades

Postby fraught » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:41 pm

Maybe I just haven't had enough of the TLS koolaid, but I really don't think a 3.3+ average is bad that no one would give him another look, particularly when that GPA would put him around the top third and on LR at a T14. He did a little better than you might expect, but it just doesn't seem like...outrageous and totally unbelievable.

HeavenWood
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Re: LR & Art. III Clerkship + Low Grades

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
fraught wrote:Doesn't that put him ~top 25% of his class?
Thread starter here. I have no idea but a 3.3 isn't looking too good compared to other clerks w/ his credentials who have like 3.6, 3.7, 3.9. No one's stopping traffic over a 3.3. I'd say he's like top third.

Top 1/3 from a T14 can definitely be in the running for an Article III clerkship. You're certainly less likely to get a clerkship than someone in the top 10%, but it's hardly unheard of. 3.0 is also a rather low curve for a T14 (~3.3 is more the norm), so a 3.3 at his school would be closer to a 3.6 at most of the others.
Last edited by HeavenWood on Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: LR & Art. III Clerkship + Low Grades

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm

Your "friend" will be fine as long as he isn't the kind of guy who acts like an asshole on message boards.

Anonymous User
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Re: LR & Art. III Clerkship + Low Grades

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:59 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:Your "friend" will be fine as long as he isn't the kind of guy who acts like an asshole on message boards.
Threadstarter here. Lucky this dude isn't you then.




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