Unethical? HELP!

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Anonymous User
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Unethical? HELP!

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:20 am

I have an SA offer that expires Monday, September 10th. I won't hear from any of the other firms (that I would rather work at) until after that date. How unethical is it to accept, and if I get another offer a day or two later from another firm, to renege?

I have to sign some paper, I'm assuming I can get out of this.....Contracts I.....not too sure though....

Asking for an extension is out of the question.

Thanks for the advice and help

Ethics are very important to me, and I do not want to do anything unethical. So please advise me with that in mind

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sambeber
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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby sambeber » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:Asking for an extension is out of the question.


Why?

Also, if ethics are "very important to [you]," don't you already know the answer to your question? No one else can tell you what your personal ethics dictate.

Anonymous User
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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:30 am

sambeber wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Asking for an extension is out of the question.


Why?

Also, if ethics are "very important to [you]," don't you already know the answer to your question?


Because they already gave me an extension.

target
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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby target » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:33 am

call all the firms you haven't heard from and tell them your deadline.

Anonymous User
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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:35 am

target wrote:call all the firms you haven't heard from and tell them your deadline.


Does it matter if I already emailed them. I just didn't receive a response

target
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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby target » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
target wrote:call all the firms you haven't heard from and tell them your deadline.


Does it matter if I already emailed them. I just didn't receive a response


ppl can ignore or don't see your email for a while. calling will get you their attention right away. although, tbh, if you haven't have any cbs with those firms, you won't have enough time to find out the result by sep 10th.

Anonymous User
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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:39 am

Call the other firms. They should be able to make a decision within a week.

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kalvano
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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby kalvano » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:54 am

I doubt the firm would consider it unethical to rescind your offer if their situation changes.

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ggocat
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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby ggocat » Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:03 am

kalvano wrote:I doubt the firm would consider it unethical to rescind your offer if their situation changes.

This.

And most likely any papers they have you sign will not be a contract. Just read it to determine if it's illusory (no consideration).

JJDancer
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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby JJDancer » Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:17 pm

If you have already had your CBs with the other firms or will have them by sept 6th/7th then I would tell them of your situation (via phone). If your CBs are scheduled for after Sept 10, CALL the recruiter and try to move them up. If these are firms that haven't even offered you a CB yet then CALL the recruiter and tell them you really need to know about CBs since you are very interested but have an expiring offer. If by sept 9th you haven't done any other CBs, you may need to accept.

GertrudePerkins
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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby GertrudePerkins » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:14 pm

kalvano wrote:I doubt the firm would consider it unethical to rescind your offer if their situation changes.
I do not think these two situations are ethically equivalent. Here's what would be ethically equivalent to what OP proposes: Firm extends student A an offer then interviews better-qualified student B, decides to give B an offer and therefore rescinds A's offer. Has anyone ever seen a firm do that? (Maybe some do, but I'm skeptical.)

What some firms certainly have done is rescind an entire SA class when their business goes to shit. That may suck equally for the SAs, but it's not ethically the same thing. That's the equivalent of OP accepting a firm's offer and then reneging when he becomes chronically ill or has a death in the family. Which I think would obviously be fine.

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kalvano
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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby kalvano » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:20 pm

GertrudePerkins wrote:
kalvano wrote:I doubt the firm would consider it unethical to rescind your offer if their situation changes.
I do not think these two situations are ethically equivalent. Here's what would be ethically equivalent to what OP proposes: Firm extends student A an offer then interviews better-qualified student B, decides to give B an offer and therefore rescinds A's offer. Has anyone ever seen a firm do that? (Maybe some do, but I'm skeptical.)

What some firms certainly have done is rescind an entire SA class when their business goes to shit. That may suck equally for the SAs, but it's not ethically the same thing. That's the equivalent of OP accepting a firm's offer and then reneging when he becomes chronically ill or has a death in the family. Which I think would obviously be fine.


That's a distinction without a difference, the end result is the same. New associates are essentially disposable to most large firms, and they wouldn't hesitate to bounce someone out on the street for whatever reason they may deem appropriate. While I find it very admirable of the OP to worry about the ethics of his situation, he should do what is best for him. The firm won't have any trouble finding another new associate should the OP decide another firm is a better option.

Anonymous User
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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:26 pm

curious about this as well. If you did this to a firm would they contact your school's recruiting office? I mean whats the worst that could happen, honestly...

09042014
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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby 09042014 » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:31 pm

If those other firms aren't going to let you know for well over a week after they know you have a deadline, I find it hard to believe they actually are going to offer you.

GertrudePerkins
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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby GertrudePerkins » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:curious about this as well. If you did this to a firm would they contact your school's recruiting office? I mean whats the worst that could happen, honestly...
Well, I suppose that's one measure by which to determine how one ought to behave....

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:44 pm

kalvano wrote:I doubt the firm would consider it unethical to rescind your offer if their situation changes.
I think you're right from an objective perspective about what is "ethical," but it's missing the more important point, which is that the firm will think rescinding like this is poor form. What matters is what the employer thinks is "ethical," and rescinding like this will certainly be burning your bridges, which is something you really ought to avoid at this stage of your career.

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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:47 pm

GertrudePerkins wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:curious about this as well. If you did this to a firm would they contact your school's recruiting office? I mean whats the worst that could happen, honestly...
Well, I suppose that's one measure by which to determine how one ought to behave....


That question was posed to the forum to gain any anecdotal evidence/information from those who have done this in the past. I do not condone this decision, but I will reiterate, I am curious about this.

Anonymous User
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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:43 pm

The risk is getting black listed by the original firm if it has enough clout and they found out who's offer you left them for. (They can probably get the new firm to no offer/rescind offer on you).

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ggocat
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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby ggocat » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:04 pm

Gertrude's distinction is noteworthy but not 100% on point IMO. Many firms rescinding offers or no-offerring large number of SAs simply wanted to keep their pockets full. They didn't appear to be on the verge of death / dissolution. (Argument could be made that lowering profits could cause partners to levee with business.)

Still, private enterprises look out for number one.

LawIdiot86
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Re: Unethical? HELP!

Postby LawIdiot86 » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:33 pm

kalvano wrote:
GertrudePerkins wrote:
kalvano wrote:I doubt the firm would consider it unethical to rescind your offer if their situation changes.
I do not think these two situations are ethically equivalent. Here's what would be ethically equivalent to what OP proposes: Firm extends student A an offer then interviews better-qualified student B, decides to give B an offer and therefore rescinds A's offer. Has anyone ever seen a firm do that? (Maybe some do, but I'm skeptical.)

What some firms certainly have done is rescind an entire SA class when their business goes to shit. That may suck equally for the SAs, but it's not ethically the same thing. That's the equivalent of OP accepting a firm's offer and then reneging when he becomes chronically ill or has a death in the family. Which I think would obviously be fine.


That's a distinction without a difference, the end result is the same. New associates are essentially disposable to most large firms, and they wouldn't hesitate to bounce someone out on the street for whatever reason they may deem appropriate. While I find it very admirable of the OP to worry about the ethics of his situation, he should do what is best for him. The firm won't have any trouble finding another new associate should the OP decide another firm is a better option.


I agree it's a distinction without a difference, but the power differential between the student and the firm is so great that it becomes a distinction in itself. Even if a firm did something actually unethical to an associate, it would be unlikely to harm the firm in the long-term, even if the associate announced it far and wide, because the demand for firm jobs is so great that no one would care and clients wouldn't care either. On the other hand, other law firms are risk averse and unless an associate is uniquely qualified (COA clerkship, connected parents, etc), the firm won't want to hire someone that a peer found to be "trouble."




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