The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone have any experience with lawcrossing.com?

I am intrigued by the website, and I am considering paying for it.

Do not do it. Lawcrossing.com is a scam.

http://subprimejd.blogspot.com/2011/04/ ... ssing.html

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complain ... 08981.html

http://www.indeed.com/forum/cmp/Bcg-Att ... obs/t10571

Not only will they not get you a job, but they will continue to charge you EVEN AFTER YOU CANCEL. I recently learned that a friend of mine from law school had to change her bank account just to prevent them from taking $40 a month.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Manali » Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:32 am

Hope a Valer gets this position. Best of luck!:

Job Title
Staff Attorney - Lynchburg, VA
Job Location
Lynchburg, VA
Job Type
Legal - Civil
Organization Information:
Virginia Legal Aid Society
513 Church Street
Lynchburg, VA 24504
Position Description:
Virginia Legal Aid Society helps thousands of low-income families in south-central Virginia every year by providing high-quality legal assistance in problems involving housing, access to health care, family stability, education, and consumer lending. Founded in 1977, VLAS is a sophisticated and tech-forward nonprofit law firm with four offices that operate as one unit.

We seek an energetic, and creative staff attorney in our eight-person law office in Lynchburg, a vibrant city on the James River in the rolling hills of the Virginia Piedmont. The staff attorney position helps implement VLAS advocacy and community engagement for the cities of Lynchburg and the counties of Amherst, Appomattox, Campbell, and Halifax. The poverty population in the service area is 37,000.

For more information, please see:
www.vlas.org about us including our strategic plan;
www.discoverlynchburg.org for more about the community and its cultural and recreational resources;

Requirements:
Applicants should be admitted to the Virginia State Bar. Spanish language fluency is a strong plus.
How To Apply:
To apply, send a cover letter, resume and references to applicationslyn@vlas.org. Advertising started 12/10/15, and applications will be accepted until the position is filled
Note:
The salary is $48K+ DOE, and VLAS offers an excellent benefit package including a state-wide LRAP. EOE.
Salary:
$48,000 + DOE
Submission Deadline:
03/10/2016

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone have any experience with lawcrossing.com?

I am intrigued by the website, and I am considering paying for it.

Do not do it. Lawcrossing.com is a scam.

http://subprimejd.blogspot.com/2011/04/ ... ssing.html

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complain ... 08981.html

http://www.indeed.com/forum/cmp/Bcg-Att ... obs/t10571

Not only will they not get you a job, but they will continue to charge you EVEN AFTER YOU CANCEL. I recently learned that a friend of mine from law school had to change her bank account just to prevent them from taking $40 a month.


OP. Thanks for this.

I have had success copy and pasting the descriptions for the jobs that I thought I fit. That has at least led me to, what appear to be, reputable legal recruiters.

Thanks, again.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:32 pm

I have an interview in two weeks at a great firm in a practice I really want to work in. I devoted over a quarter of my law school credits to this discipline. I am currently waiting to hear back from two firms in practice areas I don't care for, and there is a chance that I'll receive an offer within the next week. My research indicates that all three jobs would pay about the same.

If I get an offer, can I ask them to wait over two weeks pending my interview at the other firm? Or is that ridiculous? If they say no, do I, as a grad 6 months out of law school, really turn down a job offer for the mere possibility of working in my practice area of choice for the same pay?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:I have an interview in two weeks at a great firm in a practice I really want to work in. I devoted over a quarter of my law school credits to this discipline. I am currently waiting to hear back from two firms in practice areas I don't care for, and there is a chance that I'll receive an offer within the next week. My research indicates that all three jobs would pay about the same.

1) If I get an offer, can I ask them to wait over two weeks pending my interview at the other firm?
2) Or is that ridiculous?
3) If they say no, do I, as a grad 6 months out of law school, really turn down a job offer for the mere possibility of working in my practice area of choice for the same pay?



1) No. If you're unemployed, you're not in a position to turn down anything.
2) Yes, it's ridiculous, and if I were the employer I'd take it (correctly) as a sign that you are not really interested in working for me. Why would they hire you after you said something like that? You realize it's an employers' market, right? Tons of people who'd kill for your offer.
3) See (1).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:33 am

TheFutureLawyer wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have an interview in two weeks at a great firm in a practice I really want to work in. I devoted over a quarter of my law school credits to this discipline. I am currently waiting to hear back from two firms in practice areas I don't care for, and there is a chance that I'll receive an offer within the next week. My research indicates that all three jobs would pay about the same.

1) If I get an offer, can I ask them to wait over two weeks pending my interview at the other firm?
2) Or is that ridiculous?
3) If they say no, do I, as a grad 6 months out of law school, really turn down a job offer for the mere possibility of working in my practice area of choice for the same pay?



1) No. If you're unemployed, you're not in a position to turn down anything.
2) Yes, it's ridiculous, and if I were the employer I'd take it (correctly) as a sign that you are not really interested in working for me. Why would they hire you after you said something like that? You realize it's an employers' market, right? Tons of people who'd kill for your offer.
3) See (1).

OP here.

I wouldn't flat out tell the offering employer that I'm more interested in working at the other firm. I would just say that I have an interview scheduled at another firm and I'd like the chance to follow through.

1. I guess I'm just wondering if you can ask for time to attend a previously scheduled interview at another firm.
2. Is it the amount of time? Would you think differently if the interview was scheduled for two days after the offer? Or is it just ludicrous to ask for time to follow through with a previously scheduled interview in the face of an offer?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ballouttacontrol » Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:34 am

I got an offer as a 3L not too long ago. They didn't give me any explicit timeline to accept, but it seemed they basically wanted it ASAP. You can definitely get a few days, but more than a week is probably pushing it. Be prepared to explain why you need more time though if you try to arrange more time.

edit, to above post, 2 days is fine. I wouldn't even tell them it's for another interview. I would just ask for a couple days to think consider your options or whatever. 2 days is totally standard in the working world.

I personally did have other interviews scheduled, but would never have told the firm I got the offer from about it. My entire pitch to them was basically how this is the 100% perfect job for me--so why tf would I be interviewing elsewhere?

If they press you or seem hesitant to anything u propose, obviously just accept immediately. Reneging later if u want is fine.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:29 pm

ballouttacontrol wrote:I got an offer as a 3L not too long ago. They didn't give me any explicit timeline to accept, but it seemed they basically wanted it ASAP. You can definitely get a few days, but more than a week is probably pushing it. Be prepared to explain why you need more time though if you try to arrange more time.

edit, to above post, 2 days is fine. I wouldn't even tell them it's for another interview. I would just ask for a couple days to think consider your options or whatever. 2 days is totally standard in the working world.

I personally did have other interviews scheduled, but would never have told the firm I got the offer from about it. My entire pitch to them was basically how this is the 100% perfect job for me--so why tf would I be interviewing elsewhere?

If they press you or seem hesitant to anything u propose, obviously just accept immediately. Reneging later if u want is fine.



Yeah, there's a world of difference between two days and two weeks, though personally I'd be more inclined to just accept on the spot even if you had your dream job interview just two days away. Because that's just an interview; for any given interview your chances are slim. And then it's unlikely they'd just hire you on the spot even if they did like you; usually takes a couple of weeks. So you'd already have had to have replied back to offer you already have. Might as well just accept it off the bat - least risky move. As ball says, reneging later is absolutely acceptable.

Anonymous User wrote:I wouldn't flat out tell the offering employer that I'm more interested in working at the other firm. I would just say that I have an interview scheduled at another firm and I'd like the chance to follow through.


It's the same thing - you wouldn't care to interview at another firm unless you're more interested in working with them then with offering employer.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:34 pm

Yeah, it's fair to ask for more time (doubt they'd give you 2 weeks), but don't say it's because you have another interview, let alone that you're more interested in that other firm. If pressed say you need to consult with your SO/family, but don't bring up other jobs.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:49 pm

2015 grad here. I had a callback interview with my dream firm about a month ago. I followed-up with the recruiter after the 2-week mark, and was given the typical "we are still interviewing, but keep us up to date on other offers." I initially had my screener with them back in October, so at this point I am getting a little frustrated. They promised me that they would get back to me sooner this time and I suspect from things they have said that they are not actively interviewing many candidates. I also am starting a volunteer gig today and I was really hoping to have an answer from the firm before today so that I would not be stuck in limbo while starting a new job.

So, what is the collected wisdom on prodding a firm when they are taking months and months to make a decision? Email an interviewer? Keep pestering recruiter? Wait it out? Many thanks.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:44 pm

Had a callback the week before the holidays. Now that two weeks have passed should I still send a restatement of interest even though they probably weren't meeting and discussing the decision due to the holidays? Thanks!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Had a callback the week before the holidays. Now that two weeks have passed should I still send a restatement of interest even though they probably weren't meeting and discussing the decision due to the holidays? Thanks!


I would wait at least one more week because of the holidays. But really you're in the best position to assess this. Did you hit it up with the interviewers? Did they seem like the kind who would get annoyed to hear back from you?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:15 am

Any thoughts on timing to mass mail BigLaw during next semester? I've heard February is the best (or least bad) time for 3Ls looking for an entry level position, but was wondering if anyone has experience with that.

Mass mailed apx 200 apps intermittently throughout the fall semester and never got any hits out of that (SoCal, NYC, Texas). Obviously, 3L opportunities are scarce to say the least, but hoping to get some guidance on when to mail to at least get some replies. Thanks!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ballouttacontrol » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:35 am

some firms I applied to told me to re-send my application after the new year. I'd probably start up again ASAP if you can stomach it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:46 am

ballouttacontrol wrote:some firms I applied to told me to re-send my application after the new year. I'd probably start up again ASAP if you can stomach it.


How did you find this out? Or, I guess, where did you find the original job postings? I usually see new ones on my local and state bar website, but I have hardly noticed anything recently.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:41 am

On USAJobs, I see I've been referred to the hiring officials for a bunch of jobs I really really want (like, literally, my fucking dream job - with a bunch of different locations). Interned at this agency my second summer and have (some) post-grad experience in their semi-niche area.


Should I call/email the hiring officials up? Anyone ever do that?

eta; and if you do recommend contacting the hiring officials, should that be done immediately, after a week, or what?


Thanks

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:06 pm

Current fed atty. Unfortunately, in most cases being referred to the hiring committee doesn't mean much. In general it means that someone, almost certainly an HR person not an attorney, has briefly reviewed your resume and you meet the minimum qualifications. So for an entry level job it may mean checking that you graduated from an ABA school, and are a U.S. Citizen.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Current fed atty. Unfortunately, in most cases being referred to the hiring committee doesn't mean much. In general it means that someone, almost certainly an HR person not an attorney, has briefly reviewed your resume and you meet the minimum qualifications. So for an entry level job it may mean checking that you graduated from an ABA school, and are a U.S. Citizen.



Kinda my point - I want to stand out.


Though obviously stand out in a good way. So if contacting the hiring official is frowned upon, I don't want to do it. I already emailed the hiring official at one of the locations to test the waters a little bit, and plan on similarly emailing a few more. Then the rest (like, half) I won't email, just in case it is a big turnoff so I can still have a clean slate with those locations.

I'll let y'all know the results of my little experiment.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:10 pm

Has anyone had their interview rescheduled repeatedly?

2015 grad desperately trying to get out of the shitlaw firm I've been miserable at for several months. I had an interview scheduled with a midsize firm last month who rescheduled me 3 times then dinged me without the actual interview. When they did they told me me that they had already hired someone a week prior who became available for immediate hire. Needless to say that ruined my day.

Fast forward to this week. I have another interview that I had been anxiously waiting for two weeks. The morning of the interview (Monday) I get an e-mail that the interviewer had an urgent matter come up and the interview will have to be rescheduled to next day (today). Late today morning I get another e-mail saying that the interviewer is sick and the interview has to be adjourned to Friday. I try to get in contact with the interviewer (I can't do this Friday) but haven't heard from her since.

Fucking bullshit. If you already hired someone just tell me straight and I won't have to miss days from work or pointlessly travel 200+ fucking miles. Why operate under a fucking pretense and make someone waste his time / money.

End rant.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone had their interview rescheduled repeatedly?

2015 grad desperately trying to get out of the shitlaw firm I've been miserable at for several months. I had an interview scheduled with a midsize firm last month who rescheduled me 3 times then dinged me without the actual interview. When they did they told me me that they had already hired someone a week prior who became available for immediate hire. Needless to say that ruined my day.

Fast forward to this week. I have another interview that I had been anxiously waiting for two weeks. The morning of the interview (Monday) I get an e-mail that the interviewer had an urgent matter come up and the interview will have to be rescheduled to next day (today). Late today morning I get another e-mail saying that the interviewer is sick and the interview has to be adjourned to Friday. I try to get in contact with the interviewer (I can't do this Friday) but haven't heard from her since.

Fucking bullshit. If you already hired someone just tell me straight and I won't have to miss days from work or pointlessly travel 200+ fucking miles. Why operate under a fucking pretense and make someone waste his time / money.

End rant.


That sucks.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:30 am

TheFutureLawyer wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Current fed atty. Unfortunately, in most cases being referred to the hiring committee doesn't mean much. In general it means that someone, almost certainly an HR person not an attorney, has briefly reviewed your resume and you meet the minimum qualifications. So for an entry level job it may mean checking that you graduated from an ABA school, and are a U.S. Citizen.



Kinda my point - I want to stand out.


Though obviously stand out in a good way. So if contacting the hiring official is frowned upon, I don't want to do it. I already emailed the hiring official at one of the locations to test the waters a little bit, and plan on similarly emailing a few more. Then the rest (like, half) I won't email, just in case it is a big turnoff so I can still have a clean slate with those locations.

I'll let y'all know the results of my little experiment.

I don't think this is a good idea. You want to avoid coming off as desperate. This reeks of desperation.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:
TheFutureLawyer wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Current fed atty. Unfortunately, in most cases being referred to the hiring committee doesn't mean much. In general it means that someone, almost certainly an HR person not an attorney, has briefly reviewed your resume and you meet the minimum qualifications. So for an entry level job it may mean checking that you graduated from an ABA school, and are a U.S. Citizen.



Kinda my point - I want to stand out.


Though obviously stand out in a good way. So if contacting the hiring official is frowned upon, I don't want to do it. I already emailed the hiring official at one of the locations to test the waters a little bit, and plan on similarly emailing a few more. Then the rest (like, half) I won't email, just in case it is a big turnoff so I can still have a clean slate with those locations.

I'll let y'all know the results of my little experiment.

I don't think this is a good idea. You want to avoid coming off as desperate. This reeks of desperation.


My desperation is evident from my resume anyway. (2014 grad still just working part-time). I think the message I came up with was pretty light though - just a simple introduction briefly describing my interest (and kinda name-dropping my reference at the agency - a high-ranking person there, though in a different side/office of the agency).

And like I said, if the message does prove to be a turnoff, then I still have my control group. If the hiring official has 100 applications to look through, maybe this email just helps me stand out and gets me the interview. It seems really unlikely to me that my email would be such a turnoff that the hiring official would actively say "Well, I was gonna interview this dude, but now fuck that shit."

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:45 pm

is there a rule of thumb about how long one should wait before re-applying to a firm after being pre-screener rejected? I've already mass-mailed every firm in existence. Last wave of applications sent around the time of the July 2015 bar, and I've since passed NY. I've been out of school for about 8 months getting pretty substantive transactional experience as an intern during that time. Thinking of mass mailing all over again since I'm doing nothing but getting paid under $40k a year and playing video games right now.

Debt ~150k and interest is outpacing my post-tax, post-rent income. Running a big monthly deficit in order to have internet & phone

cum laude/top 25% 1L/2L SA/dean's award/secondary journal/published note/every moot court competition available at one of GW/BU/Fordham/BC. Probably done 40-50 interviews since the start of my OCI 2 and a half years ago, including about 7-8 CBs.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:45 pm

TheFutureLawyer wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
TheFutureLawyer wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Current fed atty. Unfortunately, in most cases being referred to the hiring committee doesn't mean much. In general it means that someone, almost certainly an HR person not an attorney, has briefly reviewed your resume and you meet the minimum qualifications. So for an entry level job it may mean checking that you graduated from an ABA school, and are a U.S. Citizen.



Kinda my point - I want to stand out.


Though obviously stand out in a good way. So if contacting the hiring official is frowned upon, I don't want to do it. I already emailed the hiring official at one of the locations to test the waters a little bit, and plan on similarly emailing a few more. Then the rest (like, half) I won't email, just in case it is a big turnoff so I can still have a clean slate with those locations.

I'll let y'all know the results of my little experiment.

I don't think this is a good idea. You want to avoid coming off as desperate. This reeks of desperation.


My desperation is evident from my resume anyway. (2014 grad still just working part-time). I think the message I came up with was pretty light though - just a simple introduction briefly describing my interest (and kinda name-dropping my reference at the agency - a high-ranking person there, though in a different side/office of the agency).

And like I said, if the message does prove to be a turnoff, then I still have my control group. If the hiring official has 100 applications to look through, maybe this email just helps me stand out and gets me the interview. It seems really unlikely to me that my email would be such a turnoff that the hiring official would actively say "Well, I was gonna interview this dude, but now fuck that shit."


Federal Attorney from above: The term "control group" doesn't apply here. All your pending applications are for different jobs, with different qualifications, not identical jobs. If you ultimately get an offer from your erroneously labeled control group, or your "experimental" group, it doesn't mean that your misguided e-mail had any effect whatsoever. You asked for advice, received it, and decided that it was wrong.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
TheFutureLawyer wrote:
My desperation is evident from my resume anyway. (2014 grad still just working part-time). I think the message I came up with was pretty light though - just a simple introduction briefly describing my interest (and kinda name-dropping my reference at the agency - a high-ranking person there, though in a different side/office of the agency).

And like I said, if the message does prove to be a turnoff, then I still have my control group. If the hiring official has 100 applications to look through, maybe this email just helps me stand out and gets me the interview. It seems really unlikely to me that my email would be such a turnoff that the hiring official would actively say "Well, I was gonna interview this dude, but now fuck that shit."


Federal Attorney from above: The term "control group" doesn't apply here. All your pending applications are for different jobs, with different qualifications, not identical jobs. If you ultimately get an offer from your erroneously labeled control group, or your "experimental" group, it doesn't mean that your misguided e-mail had any effect whatsoever.


Why do you say the jobs all had different qualifications? This was an entry level position that was posted for every field office of a certain agency.


Anonymous User wrote:You asked for advice, received it, and decided that it was wrong.


Yep. I really do appreciate anyone who posts their experiences/opinions on something I'm asking about, and take them into consideration, but I don't exactly promise to bound myself to random peoples' posts.

If you're right and I'm wrong, I'll just have to live with that.


Just as a heads up/update; I've sent the emails, and have received responses. The replies, essentially: Thanks for the email, we'll be in contact if we decide to interview.




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