The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:13 pm

ballouttacontrol wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3L lower T-14 below median sort of in the veil (summered plaintiff and they make hiring decisions much later on, like April). Sent out multiple resumes, but only recently was invited to my first mass-mail produced interview, with a well respected PL firm. That specific application happened to be mailed as opposed to sent via email like the others.

Just out of curiosity, have people had more luck with physically mailing applications? It's certainly more expensive ($6-7/application), but if it works, I would happily spend the money to get a higher return.


Haven't done this, but would be extremely surprised if it yielded different results than simply emailing. Keep in mind that mass-mailing is a huge numbers game. I sent out about 300 applications and didn't receive a single interview.


Original poster -- My reason for thinking this is also based on these application be directly mailed to managing partners as opposed to going through HR (many PL firms do not have huge HR/Recruiting dept. like defense firms do). I can see an email being seen as more annoying and easier to ignore when compared to a letter in the mail. This notion is more psychological than anything else, the idea being that people check there email on an on-going basis, so when they see an emailed resume they're not likely going to review it carefully so they can move on to the next email, but when mailed, there's a sense of a greater time horizon to review, giving the applicant a greater chance. This could all be wishful thinking though so just curious to think if this seems completely outlandish.

Edit: I should also note that the firm did not list email addresses so I didn't really have a choice but to mail, which obviously works against my premise that this could work across firms.


Original anon that replied to you. Can't speak as to how plaintiff's lit firms open their mail, but I don't think managing partners generally open their own mail. My guess is they do something similar to what my firm does - partner is busy, so secretary reads the mail, passes relevant stuff along to the partner. It is the secretary's job to run interference and take care of the small stuff. Accordingly, the secretary is going to play the same role as HR will if you email - both will run interference and keep stuff off the partners' desks.


Do secretaries typically screen partners email as well? Or only physical mail?


Partner email goes straight to them.

Not sure I would ever email straight to a partner though, personally


Hence why mail may be better — gets to the partner but not in such an intrusive way as an email. I'm looking specifically for New York, so have only emailed directly to partners in really small offices (10 or less) of otherwise bigger firms as they are unlikely hiring anyway, but you never know.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:16 pm

I think physical mail is much more likely to get screened than e-mail.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:51 pm

Stupid question, but say I'm licensed to practice in one state and there's a job opening in another state. The other state doesn't let people waive in until they have 5 years of experience, which I don't have.

The vacancy announcement says it is looking for people who can start immediately. Is that a signal for "don't apply if you aren't licensed in this state"?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Abbie Doobie » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Stupid question, but say I'm licensed to practice in one state and there's a job opening in another state. The other state doesn't let people waive in until they have 5 years of experience, which I don't have.

The vacancy announcement says it is looking for people who can start immediately. Is that a signal for "don't apply if you aren't licensed in this state"?


i don't think so. usually job postings will explicitly say "must be barred in [state]" if they don't want people from other jurisdictions applying. you can start immediately if you aren't barred there, you will just be "supervised by principals in the [x] office" until you are. they may want you sit for the state exam as opposed to waiting until you are eligible to waive in tho.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:50 pm

Abbie Doobie wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Stupid question, but say I'm licensed to practice in one state and there's a job opening in another state. The other state doesn't let people waive in until they have 5 years of experience, which I don't have.

The vacancy announcement says it is looking for people who can start immediately. Is that a signal for "don't apply if you aren't licensed in this state"?


i don't think so. usually job postings will explicitly say "must be barred in [state]" if they don't want people from other jurisdictions applying. you can start immediately if you aren't barred there, you will just be "supervised by principals in the [x] office" until you are. they may want you sit for the state exam as opposed to waiting until you are eligible to waive in tho.

Thanks!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:41 pm

So, I got an offer (!!!!) but the salary structure is giving me pause. Is this normal now? Anon b/c salary details. I'm a relatively large market.

It's a very small, but expanding firm. The partner says that they expect to be "swamped with work" in 2016, which is why they're hiring. They told me that I'd get a base pay of $1k per month, with the rest of my pay being split with the firm. I get 50% of the first $5000, then I get 55% of the next $5000. Any amount over that goes to the firm. Is this reasonable? Should I run away screaming?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ballouttacontrol » Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So, I got an offer (!!!!) but the salary structure is giving me pause. Is this normal now? Anon b/c salary details. I'm a relatively large market.

It's a very small, but expanding firm. The partner says that they expect to be "swamped with work" in 2016, which is why they're hiring. They told me that I'd get a base pay of $1k per month, with the rest of my pay being split with the firm. I get 50% of the first $5000, then I get 55% of the next $5000. Any amount over that goes to the firm. Is this reasonable? Should I run away screaming?


so you max out at $17250??

That sounds like crap dude, tbh. The more business you bring in the more $$$ you should get to keep, not have it go to the firm. Also that's like barely more than minimum wage...

I mean, congrats on the offer. I'd probably try to negotiate it up as high as I can if I were you, accept it, but I would totally keep looking. And, just personally, I'd probably go solo before working for that kinda $

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:49 pm

ballouttacontrol wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So, I got an offer (!!!!) but the salary structure is giving me pause. Is this normal now? Anon b/c salary details. I'm a relatively large market.

It's a very small, but expanding firm. The partner says that they expect to be "swamped with work" in 2016, which is why they're hiring. They told me that I'd get a base pay of $1k per month, with the rest of my pay being split with the firm. I get 50% of the first $5000, then I get 55% of the next $5000. Any amount over that goes to the firm. Is this reasonable? Should I run away screaming?


so you max out at $17250??

That sounds like crap dude, tbh. The more business you bring in the more $$$ you should get to keep, not have it go to the firm. Also that's like barely more than minimum wage...

I mean, congrats on the offer. I'd probably try to negotiate it up as high as I can if I were you, accept it, but I would totally keep looking. And, just personally, I'd probably go solo before working for that kinda $



Sorry, should've been more clear. All the numbers are per month. So per year, max out at $75k (=[$1000 per month + $2500 per month + $2750 per month]x12)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby SFSpartan » Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So, I got an offer (!!!!) but the salary structure is giving me pause. Is this normal now? Anon b/c salary details. I'm a relatively large market.

It's a very small, but expanding firm. The partner says that they expect to be "swamped with work" in 2016, which is why they're hiring. They told me that I'd get a base pay of $1k per month, with the rest of my pay being split with the firm. I get 50% of the first $5000, then I get 55% of the next $5000. Any amount over that goes to the firm. Is this reasonable? Should I run away screaming?


You have an offer that gets you out of the Vale, so I'd take it and just keep looking for something better. That said, this is barely above minimum wage (assuming you max out) and feels fairly exploitative given the limited facts you've described, so I think you'd be fully justified in turning it down.

Also, this is almost certainly below minimum wage, given that generating business is no certainty.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ballouttacontrol » Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ballouttacontrol wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So, I got an offer (!!!!) but the salary structure is giving me pause. Is this normal now? Anon b/c salary details. I'm a relatively large market.

It's a very small, but expanding firm. The partner says that they expect to be "swamped with work" in 2016, which is why they're hiring. They told me that I'd get a base pay of $1k per month, with the rest of my pay being split with the firm. I get 50% of the first $5000, then I get 55% of the next $5000. Any amount over that goes to the firm. Is this reasonable? Should I run away screaming?


so you max out at $17250??

That sounds like crap dude, tbh. The more business you bring in the more $$$ you should get to keep, not have it go to the firm. Also that's like barely more than minimum wage...

I mean, congrats on the offer. I'd probably try to negotiate it up as high as I can if I were you, accept it, but I would totally keep looking. And, just personally, I'd probably go solo before working for that kinda $



Sorry, should've been more clear. All the numbers are per month. So per year, max out at $75k (=[$1000 per month + $2500 per month + $2750 per month]x12)



ahh gotcha. This does sound a little more typical for small firm, but the base pay still seems on the low side. Up side seems very decent though. Congrats hopefully a small firm bro stops through for you

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ballouttacontrol wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So, I got an offer (!!!!) but the salary structure is giving me pause. Is this normal now? Anon b/c salary details. I'm a relatively large market.

It's a very small, but expanding firm. The partner says that they expect to be "swamped with work" in 2016, which is why they're hiring. They told me that I'd get a base pay of $1k per month, with the rest of my pay being split with the firm. I get 50% of the first $5000, then I get 55% of the next $5000. Any amount over that goes to the firm. Is this reasonable? Should I run away screaming?


so you max out at $17250??

That sounds like crap dude, tbh. The more business you bring in the more $$$ you should get to keep, not have it go to the firm. Also that's like barely more than minimum wage...

I mean, congrats on the offer. I'd probably try to negotiate it up as high as I can if I were you, accept it, but I would totally keep looking. And, just personally, I'd probably go solo before working for that kinda $



Sorry, should've been more clear. All the numbers are per month. So per year, max out at $75k (=[$1000 per month + $2500 per month + $2750 per month]x12)


That makes more sense, and seems in line with small firm, though you might want to push for higher base pay. Still, I stand by my original post to the extent you find something that pays more.

In any case, congrats on leaving the Vale!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:16 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I think physical mail is much more likely to get screened than e-mail.


Just to add another anecdotal data point, got another interview from a similar boutique plaintiffs firm after sending in a physical application. No information regarding recruitment information on website though so that may be why.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby cowgirl_bebop » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:11 pm

Phone interview in 6 hours; I don't think I've ever been so nervous in my life. I reallyyyyyyyyy need this to go well.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby swimmer11 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:32 pm

cowgirl_bebop wrote:Phone interview in 6 hours; I don't think I've ever been so nervous in my life. I reallyyyyyyyyy need this to go well.


Good Luck!!!!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Nebby » Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:42 pm

swimmer11 wrote:
cowgirl_bebop wrote:Phone interview in 6 hours; I don't think I've ever been so nervous in my life. I reallyyyyyyyyy need this to go well.


Good Luck!!!!

Good luck, space cowgirl!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby anon sequitur » Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:26 pm

Anyone else out there doing a fellowship and starting to worry that it's not going to lead to anything ? I'm doing public defense, and I love my fellowship placement but I knew there was zero chance I'd get a job in this organization. I just took it cause I thought it'd be good experience and I'd pick up something else in this field. Now I'm starting to worry I was dumb and should have taken something in a small office where I could maybe get hired if someone left during the year.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ash0117 » Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:24 pm

anon sequitur wrote:Anyone else out there doing a fellowship and starting to worry that it's not going to lead to anything ? I'm doing public defense, and I love my fellowship placement but I knew there was zero chance I'd get a job in this organization. I just took it cause I thought it'd be good experience and I'd pick up something else in this field. Now I'm starting to worry I was dumb and should have taken something in a small office where I could maybe get hired if someone left during the year.


I'm starting a Fellowship next Monday and it is only a year. While I have plenty of time to hunt for a job, I'm scared I won't find something permanent before my Fellowship is over and then I will be running home with my tail between my legs unemployed. I also want to do PD/ non-profit work. It's a struggle, for sure. Any tips for job hunting while working at a fellowship? I'm assuming my boss will be flexible, especially as the year comes to an end, since they know it is a temporary position...

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:37 pm

What are everyone's thoughts about applying while studying for the bar?

It's not ideal, but it looks like I won't have a choice...

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pleasye » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What are everyone's thoughts about applying while studying for the bar?

It's not ideal, but it looks like I won't have a choice...

Definitely apply while studying for the bar. I applied and got my offer while studying.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:04 pm

Pleasye wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What are everyone's thoughts about applying while studying for the bar?

It's not ideal, but it looks like I won't have a choice...

Definitely apply while studying for the bar. I applied and got my offer while studying.


Yeah, job hunting isn't really that time intensive.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pleasye » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:16 pm

TheFutureLawyer wrote:
Pleasye wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What are everyone's thoughts about applying while studying for the bar?

It's not ideal, but it looks like I won't have a choice...

Definitely apply while studying for the bar. I applied and got my offer while studying.


Yeah, job hunting isn't really that time intensive.

It's also a pretty productive procrastination/distraction tool when you need a break from studying.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby cowgirl_bebop » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:46 pm

Thanks everyone for the good luck wishes. The interview went really well, better than I expected actually. With the holidays and everything going on I have no idea when I will be hearing back, but hopefully it will be good news when I do.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:22 pm

Pleasye wrote:
TheFutureLawyer wrote:
Pleasye wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What are everyone's thoughts about applying while studying for the bar?

It's not ideal, but it looks like I won't have a choice...

Definitely apply while studying for the bar. I applied and got my offer while studying.


Yeah, job hunting isn't really that time intensive.

It's also a pretty productive procrastination/distraction tool when you need a break from studying.


I got a job before bar prep, but before that happened, I had made the decision to not apply for jobs during bar prep. The reason why was that I knew myself and I knew the rejections and the anxiety of waiting to hear back would be too distracting and could possibly push me to not study as much as I needed to.

I don't know what really would have happened, but that was definitely my plan.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:57 pm

Does anyone have any experience with lawcrossing.com?

I am intrigued by the website, and I am considering paying for it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:47 pm

anon sequitur wrote:Anyone else out there doing a fellowship and starting to worry that it's not going to lead to anything ? I'm doing public defense, and I love my fellowship placement but I knew there was zero chance I'd get a job in this organization. I just took it cause I thought it'd be good experience and I'd pick up something else in this field. Now I'm starting to worry I was dumb and should have taken something in a small office where I could maybe get hired if someone left during the year.


Yeah I'm in the same boat. School sponsored fellowship, to add to the shame. I'm doing public interest and my background is public interest but it's becoming more and more apparent that they're not gonna hire me and that I do NOT actually enjoy doing public interest work. My poverty level fellowship stipend has made me realize how much I like being compensated for work with actual money :twisted: Oh well at least I know that now, right?

On the bright side, if your fellowship is a year then you still have plenty of time to apply to look for jobs while gaining legal experience at the fellowship, blah blah blah




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