The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[Anonymous User]

HELP

Recently offered a 50K gig at a small firm in my desired loc and in a practice area i an interested in. 50k is not a lot, but I suppose I could live at home for a year, get 2-3 years of experience and then try to clerk or lateral after that if I'm not in love with the practice job/haven't got to 60k+

NEED to decide by MONDAY, non-negotiable (partner/owner is leaving country). Thing is, I've got interviews scheduled with a district court and another firm later this month, and who knows what will pop up in the Spring.

I know people here have advocated accepting offers but continuing to interview and apply in search of better things. That just seems so slimy, but I guess it is reality and likely what I'll have to do. any and all advice/wisdom/encouragement/criticism is welcome

It's not slimy at all. Don't kid yourself: if the firm found someone else better, they would drop you in a hot second. You also don't know what will happen: a firm could lose a client or partners could leave. Keep looking.

2014 grad here. After being employed part-time at Firm A for a little while, I got picked up full-time at Firm B in my favorite niche practice area. Two months into Firm B, I got an email from an attorney I worked with in the federal government as an intern, half-doing a practice area I liked, and half-doing a practice area I hated. He told me there was an opening in their office, and that I should apply. I was really happy at Firm B, so I thanked him but said I liked where I was at at the moment.

Three months later work dried up and Firm B dropped me. Thankfully I was at least able to get my old part-time job back. Been kicking myself since for not applying to that fed job (which, if not a lock, I imagine I would have been a top contender). It might not have been my dream job, but it was good enough.

My advice: don't be me.

[Anonymous User]

HELP

Recently offered a 50K gig at a small firm in my desired loc and in a practice area i an interested in. 50k is not a lot, but I suppose I could live at home for a year, get 2-3 years of experience and then try to clerk or lateral after that if I'm not in love with the practice job/haven't got to 60k+

NEED to decide by MONDAY, non-negotiable (partner/owner is leaving country). Thing is, I've got interviews scheduled with a district court and another firm later this month, and who knows what will pop up in the Spring.

I know people here have advocated accepting offers but continuing to interview and apply in search of better things. That just seems so slimy, but I guess it is reality and likely what I'll have to do. any and all advice/wisdom/encouragement/criticism is welcome

It's not slimy at all. Don't kid yourself: if the firm found someone else better, they would drop you in a hot second. You also don't know what will happen: a firm could lose a client or partners could leave. Keep looking.

2014 grad here. After being employed part-time at Firm A for a little while, I got picked up full-time at Firm B in my favorite niche practice area. Two months into Firm B, I got an email from an attorney I worked with in the federal government as an intern, half-doing a practice area I liked, and half-doing a practice area I hated. He told me there was an opening in their office, and that I should apply. I was really happy at Firm B, so I thanked him but said I liked where I was at at the moment.

Three months later work dried up and Firm B dropped me. Thankfully I was at least able to get my old part-time job back. Been kicking myself since for not applying to that fed job (which, if not a lock, I imagine I would have been a top contender). It might not have been my dream job, but it was good enough.

My advice: don't be me.

Also interested in this topic. How do you broach the subject of leaving/reneging a job to take a new one. Won't the current employer/offeror then know that you had been hunting for something else all along?

For example, prospective employer would probably want to contact your current employer as a reference. How would an employer respond to a call like that? "Oh, I had no idea he was looking for another job. Yeah he was great, until just now that I realize he is a disloyal and ungrateful bastard"

[TheFutureLawyer]

x

[Anonymous User]

2015 grad. Applied to an entry-level position two weeks ago and now see that an associate at the firm is an alumni. Is reaching out atypical? If I did, how would I go about it? (I have done this in the past but only when I had an interview already -- e.g. "hey, I have an interview coming up and would love to learn more about your firm.")

Edit: it's a bigger-sized firm and I'm from T10 if that matters (assuming the former matters more than the latter).

[Anonymous User]

Fidelity National Title in Omaha is hiring for entry level in house.

[Anonymous User]

Hello. Does anyone have information or advice for a post-grad, Bar-admitted JD looking to enter legal employment market for the first time?

Owing to extenuating and serious personal circumstances, this grad was unable to pursue any employment (legal or otherwise), or even take the bar exam, for over a year following graduation. The grad was about top third at strongest regional school (think UT/UCLA/Vandy) with resume that would have been competitive for Big Law 2L SA if not for circumstances outside the grad's control. Grad is currently performing substantive legal work on volunteer basis but looking for law firm position preferably. Any relevant advice is much appreciated.

[ballouttacontrol]

Hello. Does anyone have information or advice for a post-grad, Bar-admitted JD looking to enter legal employment market for the first time?

Owing to extenuating and serious personal circumstances, this grad was unable to pursue any employment (legal or otherwise), or even take the bar exam, for over a year following graduation. The grad was about top third at strongest regional school (think UT/UCLA/Vandy) with resume that would have been competitive for Big Law 2L SA if not for circumstances outside the grad's control. Grad is currently performing substantive legal work on volunteer basis but looking for law firm position preferably. Any relevant advice is much appreciated.

mass mail firms in a relevant area to what you spent your summers doing and/or your current volunteer position. write targeted cover letters, reach out to whomever will listen to try to find openings that will consider you.

I don't see any reason your approach would be different than anyone else's, except obviously you'll need to explain the reasons for taking a year off

I would also not write off government, or anything at all really, at this point. Even local gov't is likely to pay as much or more than most firms you will be able to get an interview with at this point

[Anonymous User]

I had a final interview with a job a couple of weeks ago. This week one of my references let me know that they had been contacted. Today I was contacted by the job to set up a short phone call tomorrow with the hiring partner. I know that offers usually come via phone... but I've never heard of them being prescheduled. I'm thinking it'll either be good news, or it'll be a rejection by phone call, which I've never heard of before, but you never know.... I can't read the tea leaves on this one.

[Stanford4Me]

I had a final interview with a job a couple of weeks ago. This week one of my references let me know that they had been contacted. Today I was contacted by the job to set up a short phone call tomorrow with the hiring partner. I know that offers usually come via phone... but I've never heard of them being prescheduled. I'm thinking it'll either be good news, or it'll be a rejection by phone call, which I've never heard of before, but you never know.... I can't read the tea leaves on this one.

Don't want to boost your hopes, but definitely don't think they'd pre-schedule a time to reject you. Sending best wishes your way, I'm sure things are gonna be great!

[A. Nony Mouse]

I had a final interview with a job a couple of weeks ago. This week one of my references let me know that they had been contacted. Today I was contacted by the job to set up a short phone call tomorrow with the hiring partner. I know that offers usually come via phone... but I've never heard of them being prescheduled. I'm thinking it'll either be good news, or it'll be a rejection by phone call, which I've never heard of before, but you never know.... I can't read the tea leaves on this one.

I have been called by someone basically to warn me that I was going to get a call from the head honcho. They actually told me it was for an offer, but I don't think pre-scheduling is out of the ordinary, especially if the person calling is super busy. Fingers crossed anyway!

[Anonymous User]

I had a final interview with a job a couple of weeks ago. This week one of my references let me know that they had been contacted. Today I was contacted by the job to set up a short phone call tomorrow with the hiring partner. I know that offers usually come via phone... but I've never heard of them being prescheduled. I'm thinking it'll either be good news, or it'll be a rejection by phone call, which I've never heard of before, but you never know.... I can't read the tea leaves on this one.

The vale bids you farewell.

[Anonymous User]

3L lower T-14 below median sort of in the veil (summered plaintiff and they make hiring decisions much later on, like April). Sent out multiple resumes, but only recently was invited to my first mass-mail produced interview, with a well respected PL firm. That specific application happened to be mailed as opposed to sent via email like the others.

Just out of curiosity, have people had more luck with physically mailing applications? It's certainly more expensive ($6-7/application), but if it works, I would happily spend the money to get a higher return.

[Anonymous User]

3L lower T-14 below median sort of in the veil (summered plaintiff and they make hiring decisions much later on, like April). Sent out multiple resumes, but only recently was invited to my first mass-mail produced interview, with a well respected PL firm. That specific application happened to be mailed as opposed to sent via email like the others.

Just out of curiosity, have people had more luck with physically mailing applications? It's certainly more expensive ($6-7/application), but if it works, I would happily spend the money to get a higher return.

Haven't done this, but would be extremely surprised if it yielded different results than simply emailing. Keep in mind that mass-mailing is a huge numbers game. I sent out about 300 applications and didn't receive a single interview.

[Anonymous User]

3L lower T-14 below median sort of in the veil (summered plaintiff and they make hiring decisions much later on, like April). Sent out multiple resumes, but only recently was invited to my first mass-mail produced interview, with a well respected PL firm. That specific application happened to be mailed as opposed to sent via email like the others.

Just out of curiosity, have people had more luck with physically mailing applications? It's certainly more expensive ($6-7/application), but if it works, I would happily spend the money to get a higher return.

Haven't done this, but would be extremely surprised if it yielded different results than simply emailing. Keep in mind that mass-mailing is a huge numbers game. I sent out about 300 applications and didn't receive a single interview.

Original poster -- My reason for thinking this is also based on these application be directly mailed to managing partners as opposed to going through HR (many PL firms do not have huge HR/Recruiting dept. like defense firms do). I can see an email being seen as more annoying and easier to ignore when compared to a letter in the mail. This notion is more psychological than anything else, the idea being that people check there email on an on-going basis, so when they see an emailed resume they're not likely going to review it carefully so they can move on to the next email, but when mailed, there's a sense of a greater time horizon to review, giving the applicant a greater chance. This could all be wishful thinking though so just curious to think if this seems completely outlandish.

Edit: I should also note that the firm did not list email addresses so I didn't really have a choice but to mail, which obviously works against my premise that this could work across firms.

[Anonymous User]

Would be interpreted the substantially the same, IMO

When I was a small firm para, I would have just printed it out and shown it to the decision maker anyways

At larger firms, you should definitely email

At small firms, don't be afraid to call the front desk and ask how and to whom you should send materials. Usually they'll give you an email address, and then u can ask them for a name to address it to

[Nebby]

I had a final interview with a job a couple of weeks ago. This week one of my references let me know that they had been contacted. Today I was contacted by the job to set up a short phone call tomorrow with the hiring partner. I know that offers usually come via phone... but I've never heard of them being prescheduled. I'm thinking it'll either be good news, or it'll be a rejection by phone call, which I've never heard of before, but you never know.... I can't read the tea leaves on this one.

Don't want to boost your hopes, but definitely don't think they'd pre-schedule a time to reject you. Sending best wishes your way, I'm sure things are gonna be great!

I had a final interview with a job a couple of weeks ago. This week one of my references let me know that they had been contacted. Today I was contacted by the job to set up a short phone call tomorrow with the hiring partner. I know that offers usually come via phone... but I've never heard of them being prescheduled. I'm thinking it'll either be good news, or it'll be a rejection by phone call, which I've never heard of before, but you never know.... I can't read the tea leaves on this one.

I have been called by someone basically to warn me that I was going to get a call from the head honcho. They actually told me it was for an offer, but I don't think pre-scheduling is out of the ordinary, especially if the person calling is super busy. Fingers crossed anyway!

I had a final interview with a job a couple of weeks ago. This week one of my references let me know that they had been contacted. Today I was contacted by the job to set up a short phone call tomorrow with the hiring partner. I know that offers usually come via phone... but I've never heard of them being prescheduled. I'm thinking it'll either be good news, or it'll be a rejection by phone call, which I've never heard of before, but you never know.... I can't read the tea leaves on this one.

The vale bids you farewell.

Y'all were right. I'm officially out of the Vale.

[Stanford4Me]

Y'all were right. I'm officially out of the Vale.

Congrats! Go celebrate.

[SFSpartan]

I had a final interview with a job a couple of weeks ago. This week one of my references let me know that they had been contacted. Today I was contacted by the job to set up a short phone call tomorrow with the hiring partner. I know that offers usually come via phone... but I've never heard of them being prescheduled. I'm thinking it'll either be good news, or it'll be a rejection by phone call, which I've never heard of before, but you never know.... I can't read the tea leaves on this one.

Don't want to boost your hopes, but definitely don't think they'd pre-schedule a time to reject you. Sending best wishes your way, I'm sure things are gonna be great!

I had a final interview with a job a couple of weeks ago. This week one of my references let me know that they had been contacted. Today I was contacted by the job to set up a short phone call tomorrow with the hiring partner. I know that offers usually come via phone... but I've never heard of them being prescheduled. I'm thinking it'll either be good news, or it'll be a rejection by phone call, which I've never heard of before, but you never know.... I can't read the tea leaves on this one.

I have been called by someone basically to warn me that I was going to get a call from the head honcho. They actually told me it was for an offer, but I don't think pre-scheduling is out of the ordinary, especially if the person calling is super busy. Fingers crossed anyway!

I had a final interview with a job a couple of weeks ago. This week one of my references let me know that they had been contacted. Today I was contacted by the job to set up a short phone call tomorrow with the hiring partner. I know that offers usually come via phone... but I've never heard of them being prescheduled. I'm thinking it'll either be good news, or it'll be a rejection by phone call, which I've never heard of before, but you never know.... I can't read the tea leaves on this one.

The vale bids you farewell.

Y'all were right. I'm officially out of the Vale.

Congratulations! Looks like Christmas came (a little) early!

[Kratos]

Y'all were right. I'm officially out of the Vale.

didn't you already have a different offer?

[Nebby]

Y'all were right. I'm officially out of the Vale.

didn't you already have a different offer?

Yeah, but it was an unpaid, school-funded fellowship that I hadn't accepted yet.

[Anonymous User]

I had a final interview with a job a couple of weeks ago. This week one of my references let me know that they had been contacted. Today I was contacted by the job to set up a short phone call tomorrow with the hiring partner. I know that offers usually come via phone... but I've never heard of them being prescheduled. I'm thinking it'll either be good news, or it'll be a rejection by phone call, which I've never heard of before, but you never know.... I can't read the tea leaves on this one.

Don't want to boost your hopes, but definitely don't think they'd pre-schedule a time to reject you. Sending best wishes your way, I'm sure things are gonna be great!

I had a final interview with a job a couple of weeks ago. This week one of my references let me know that they had been contacted. Today I was contacted by the job to set up a short phone call tomorrow with the hiring partner. I know that offers usually come via phone... but I've never heard of them being prescheduled. I'm thinking it'll either be good news, or it'll be a rejection by phone call, which I've never heard of before, but you never know.... I can't read the tea leaves on this one.

I have been called by someone basically to warn me that I was going to get a call from the head honcho. They actually told me it was for an offer, but I don't think pre-scheduling is out of the ordinary, especially if the person calling is super busy. Fingers crossed anyway!

I had a final interview with a job a couple of weeks ago. This week one of my references let me know that they had been contacted. Today I was contacted by the job to set up a short phone call tomorrow with the hiring partner. I know that offers usually come via phone... but I've never heard of them being prescheduled. I'm thinking it'll either be good news, or it'll be a rejection by phone call, which I've never heard of before, but you never know.... I can't read the tea leaves on this one.

The vale bids you farewell.

Y'all were right. I'm officially out of the Vale.

CONGRATS!!! Go celebrate!!

[Anonymous User]

Had a screening interview for a job today. It went really well and I was told that I would definitely be hearing back about scheduling another round. The job would be perfect for me: the city I want and a firm I'd love to be with. Only thing is that I have no real idea what the salary would be like, or even what my responsibilities would be. But no matter what the details are, if I get an offer I'm going to take it. I've had a number of near misses lately that killed any glimmer of hope I had left, so don't want to get too excited, but I think if I can just somehow manage to not screw this up I might be in good shape. Wish me luck guys and gals.

And congrats to everyone who has gotten out of the Vale or at least some good movement on some applications. We just have to keep pushing and we'll get there.

[Anonymous User]

3L lower T-14 below median sort of in the veil (summered plaintiff and they make hiring decisions much later on, like April). Sent out multiple resumes, but only recently was invited to my first mass-mail produced interview, with a well respected PL firm. That specific application happened to be mailed as opposed to sent via email like the others.

Just out of curiosity, have people had more luck with physically mailing applications? It's certainly more expensive ($6-7/application), but if it works, I would happily spend the money to get a higher return.

Haven't done this, but would be extremely surprised if it yielded different results than simply emailing. Keep in mind that mass-mailing is a huge numbers game. I sent out about 300 applications and didn't receive a single interview.

Original poster -- My reason for thinking this is also based on these application be directly mailed to managing partners as opposed to going through HR (many PL firms do not have huge HR/Recruiting dept. like defense firms do). I can see an email being seen as more annoying and easier to ignore when compared to a letter in the mail. This notion is more psychological than anything else, the idea being that people check there email on an on-going basis, so when they see an emailed resume they're not likely going to review it carefully so they can move on to the next email, but when mailed, there's a sense of a greater time horizon to review, giving the applicant a greater chance. This could all be wishful thinking though so just curious to think if this seems completely outlandish.

Edit: I should also note that the firm did not list email addresses so I didn't really have a choice but to mail, which obviously works against my premise that this could work across firms.

Original anon that replied to you. Can't speak as to how plaintiff's lit firms open their mail, but I don't think managing partners generally open their own mail. My guess is they do something similar to what my firm does - partner is busy, so secretary reads the mail, passes relevant stuff along to the partner. It is the secretary's job to run interference and take care of the small stuff. Accordingly, the secretary is going to play the same role as HR will if you email - both will run interference and keep stuff off the partners' desks.

[Anonymous User]

3L lower T-14 below median sort of in the veil (summered plaintiff and they make hiring decisions much later on, like April). Sent out multiple resumes, but only recently was invited to my first mass-mail produced interview, with a well respected PL firm. That specific application happened to be mailed as opposed to sent via email like the others.

Just out of curiosity, have people had more luck with physically mailing applications? It's certainly more expensive ($6-7/application), but if it works, I would happily spend the money to get a higher return.

Haven't done this, but would be extremely surprised if it yielded different results than simply emailing. Keep in mind that mass-mailing is a huge numbers game. I sent out about 300 applications and didn't receive a single interview.

Original poster -- My reason for thinking this is also based on these application be directly mailed to managing partners as opposed to going through HR (many PL firms do not have huge HR/Recruiting dept. like defense firms do). I can see an email being seen as more annoying and easier to ignore when compared to a letter in the mail. This notion is more psychological than anything else, the idea being that people check there email on an on-going basis, so when they see an emailed resume they're not likely going to review it carefully so they can move on to the next email, but when mailed, there's a sense of a greater time horizon to review, giving the applicant a greater chance. This could all be wishful thinking though so just curious to think if this seems completely outlandish.

Edit: I should also note that the firm did not list email addresses so I didn't really have a choice but to mail, which obviously works against my premise that this could work across firms.

Original anon that replied to you. Can't speak as to how plaintiff's lit firms open their mail, but I don't think managing partners generally open their own mail. My guess is they do something similar to what my firm does - partner is busy, so secretary reads the mail, passes relevant stuff along to the partner. It is the secretary's job to run interference and take care of the small stuff. Accordingly, the secretary is going to play the same role as HR will if you email - both will run interference and keep stuff off the partners' desks.

Do secretaries typically screen partners email as well? Or only physical mail?

[ballouttacontrol]

3L lower T-14 below median sort of in the veil (summered plaintiff and they make hiring decisions much later on, like April). Sent out multiple resumes, but only recently was invited to my first mass-mail produced interview, with a well respected PL firm. That specific application happened to be mailed as opposed to sent via email like the others.

Just out of curiosity, have people had more luck with physically mailing applications? It's certainly more expensive ($6-7/application), but if it works, I would happily spend the money to get a higher return.

Haven't done this, but would be extremely surprised if it yielded different results than simply emailing. Keep in mind that mass-mailing is a huge numbers game. I sent out about 300 applications and didn't receive a single interview.

Original poster -- My reason for thinking this is also based on these application be directly mailed to managing partners as opposed to going through HR (many PL firms do not have huge HR/Recruiting dept. like defense firms do). I can see an email being seen as more annoying and easier to ignore when compared to a letter in the mail. This notion is more psychological than anything else, the idea being that people check there email on an on-going basis, so when they see an emailed resume they're not likely going to review it carefully so they can move on to the next email, but when mailed, there's a sense of a greater time horizon to review, giving the applicant a greater chance. This could all be wishful thinking though so just curious to think if this seems completely outlandish.

Edit: I should also note that the firm did not list email addresses so I didn't really have a choice but to mail, which obviously works against my premise that this could work across firms.

Original anon that replied to you. Can't speak as to how plaintiff's lit firms open their mail, but I don't think managing partners generally open their own mail. My guess is they do something similar to what my firm does - partner is busy, so secretary reads the mail, passes relevant stuff along to the partner. It is the secretary's job to run interference and take care of the small stuff. Accordingly, the secretary is going to play the same role as HR will if you email - both will run interference and keep stuff off the partners' desks.

Do secretaries typically screen partners email as well? Or only physical mail?

Partner email goes straight to them.

Not sure I would ever email straight to a partner though, personally