The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:51 am

I'm struggling. I am a 3L with no firm job and a clerkship offer for 2018 in the Southern District of New York. I have accepted the federal clerkship but have been unable to secure employment for the next two years. I was offered a spot in the firm that I summered with but they pay way below market rates and it doesn't seem feasible I can work for them based on the cost of living in NYC. So in other words, I really prefer to get a biglaw job. While I did reinterview for 3L oci, I only got the clerkship offer after I did FALL 3L OCI. I'm not really sure how to proceed. When I emailed back firms who rejected me to given them my "updated information," they seemed to not really care about the federal clerkship. I didn't expect them to change their decision but I was encouraged by other lawyers/career advisors/mentors to email them and let them know about the update. I guess now I am at a loss about who may be hiring litigation associates at this point in New York? Any suggestions? Is the 3L hiring process totally over at this point?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:03 am

Did you mass mail other BigLaw firms you didn't interview with? Other than doing that, you're likely at the mercy of small- and medium-sized law firm hiring.

I know this seems not ideal for you, but going with a small firm, then clerkship, then levereging that to get a BigLaw job might be a more realistic path. Only, of course, if you can manage the next few years on a lower salary.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:46 am

Also stay on top of OSCAR. Clerkships do open up late in the game and if you secured SDNY, you probably have the chops to pick up one of those to precede your SDNY clerkship. It's not that unusual for someone to clerk in another district before SDNY, and it has the advantage of paying your bills in a lower COL market for a year or two.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:04 am

Was there something bizarre about your OCI as a 2L and 3L that prevented you from landing a firm gig through regular channels? I've never met an SDNY clerk who wasn't eminently qualified to work at a top ny firm if that's what they had wanted to do, so as BVest alluded to, I'm sure you have strong enough stats to not only get a different firm, but maybe another clerkship in another region for at least 2017-18. (Then again, I know how tough off-season hiring is at large firms, despite good credentials). If you really can't find a firm for 2016, you can take a school funded position, clerk for two years and then cop a larger bonus at your pick of the litter for firms in 2019.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:14 am

I mean, as someone who got an offer from your summer firm - even if it pays crap - this isn't quite the thread you're looking for.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Dithyfish » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:35 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I mean, as someone who got an offer from your summer firm - even if it pays crap - this isn't quite the thread you're looking for.

I'm not taking it. I'm not sure this thread is for only people who are no-offered; the vale seems to be for anyone who is struggling with the 3L job hunt.
Last edited by Dithyfish on Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Dithyfish » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:37 am

jbagelboy wrote:Was there something bizarre about your OCI as a 2L and 3L that prevented you from landing a firm gig through regular channels? I've never met an SDNY clerk who wasn't eminently qualified to work at a top ny firm if that's what they had wanted to do, so as BVest alluded to, I'm sure you have strong enough stats to not only get a different firm, but maybe another clerkship in another region for at least 2017-18. (Then again, I know how tough off-season hiring is at large firms, despite good credentials). If you really can't find a firm for 2016, you can take a school funded position, clerk for two years and then cop a larger bonus at your pick of the litter for firms in 2019.



I think there are a few things working against me: 1) I transferred to a T-14 after my 1L year. 2) I am in my late 30s and had a prior career to law school so there might be some ageism too.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:38 am

zot1 wrote:Did you mass mail other BigLaw firms you didn't interview with? Other than doing that, you're likely at the mercy of small- and medium-sized law firm hiring.

I know this seems not ideal for you, but going with a small firm, then clerkship, then levereging that to get a BigLaw job might be a more realistic path. Only, of course, if you can manage the next few years on a lower salary.


So Is 3L hiring over?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:52 am

Dithyfish wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I mean, as someone who got an offer from your summer firm - even if it pays crap - this isn't quite the thread you're looking for.

I'm not taking it. I'm not sure this thread is for only people who are no-offered; the vale seems to be for anyone who is struggling with the 3L job hunt.

It was originally intended for people who were no-offered, actually. But I do hope you find something that works better for you.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:46 pm

3L Starting to get pretty worried. Thoughts, advice, own experiences, anything, all appreciated

Stats:
Top 25% at regional T-35
Law review (published) and secondary; tutor LLM students in Energy and Evidence classes (paid)
1L school year clinic + summer at large respected Plaintiffs firm
2L school year RA + summer clerk at small satellite of large E Coast firm (aware from start it would not lead, at least directly, to FT job there) doing mostly high exposure products liability, insurance defense/coverage, med mal and a little election law
3L school year clerk at respected local 20-lawyer general practice

9 screeners at 2L OCI, 2 callbacks, no offers (was only in top 1/3 then)
2 bankruptcy clerkship interviews, recently dinged for both

Want to be a commercial lit associate at small/boutique/mid/big law firm in Midwest. But open to anything paying 50K :shock:
not seeing ANYTHING really on symplcity or elsewhere

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Nebby » Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:3L Starting to get pretty worried. Thoughts, advice, own experiences, anything, all appreciated

Stats:
Top 25% at regional T-35
Law review (published) and secondary; tutor LLM students in Energy and Evidence classes (paid)
1L school year clinic + summer at large respected Plaintiffs firm
2L school year RA + summer clerk at small satellite of large E Coast firm (aware from start it would not lead, at least directly, to FT job there) doing mostly high exposure products liability, insurance defense/coverage, med mal and a little election law
3L school year clerk at respected local 20-lawyer general practice

9 screeners at 2L OCI, 2 callbacks, no offers (was only in top 1/3 then)
2 bankruptcy clerkship interviews, recently dinged for both

Want to be a commercial lit associate at small/boutique/mid/big law firm in Midwest. But open to anything paying 50K :shock:
not seeing ANYTHING really on symplcity or elsewhere

It's still early.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm struggling. I am a 3L with no firm job and a clerkship offer for 2018 in the Southern District of New York. I have accepted the federal clerkship but have been unable to secure employment for the next two years. I was offered a spot in the firm that I summered with but they pay way below market rates and it doesn't seem feasible I can work for them based on the cost of living in NYC. So in other words, I really prefer to get a biglaw job. While I did reinterview for 3L oci, I only got the clerkship offer after I did FALL 3L OCI. I'm not really sure how to proceed. When I emailed back firms who rejected me to given them my "updated information," they seemed to not really care about the federal clerkship. I didn't expect them to change their decision but I was encouraged by other lawyers/career advisors/mentors to email them and let them know about the update. I guess now I am at a loss about who may be hiring litigation associates at this point in New York? Any suggestions? Is the 3L hiring process totally over at this point?


I wouldn't classify a lower salary job offer and clerkship as "struggling." It's not ideal for you, but there are numerous people who would love to be in your position.

Anyway, it's still early. Good luck with the hunt!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Dithyfish » Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm struggling. I am a 3L with no firm job and a clerkship offer for 2018 in the Southern District of New York. I have accepted the federal clerkship but have been unable to secure employment for the next two years. I was offered a spot in the firm that I summered with but they pay way below market rates and it doesn't seem feasible I can work for them based on the cost of living in NYC. So in other words, I really prefer to get a biglaw job. While I did reinterview for 3L oci, I only got the clerkship offer after I did FALL 3L OCI. I'm not really sure how to proceed. When I emailed back firms who rejected me to given them my "updated information," they seemed to not really care about the federal clerkship. I didn't expect them to change their decision but I was encouraged by other lawyers/career advisors/mentors to email them and let them know about the update. I guess now I am at a loss about who may be hiring litigation associates at this point in New York? Any suggestions? Is the 3L hiring process totally over at this point?


I wouldn't classify a lower salary job offer and clerkship as "struggling." It's not ideal for you, but there are numerous people who would love to be in your position.

Anyway, it's still early. Good luck with the hunt!


I disagree with you. Everyone has different considerations and loan situations, etc and personally knowing the low salary--it is a struggle for me and I don't think you really have the right to judge. I think when people post on here it isn't helpful to mince words about the meaning of "struggling" and it is a waste of time frankly. I'm just asking for help about what the 3L options are in terms of big-firm recruiting at this point.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:44 pm

Feeling pretty screwed. 2015 grad. T14 school. T40%.

Still no law job. No responses to any of my applications. It seems like there's nothing left to apply for.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ilovesf » Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:47 pm

I know that feeling. Just try to do something in the mean time (pro bono volunteer, etc) that you can talk about as a filler. Things will eventually pick up. I remember there being a lot more job postings in around Jan - Feb in the new year.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Feeling pretty screwed. 2015 grad. T14 school. T40%.

Still no law job. No responses to any of my applications. It seems like there's nothing left to apply for.


Cali grad? A lot more jobs will open for those with a license on this next few months. I know '14 grads who got jobs in November, January, and February.

Hang in there. Keep hustling. Vent more if you need to.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:32 pm

Dithyfish wrote:I disagree with you. Everyone has different considerations and loan situations, etc and personally knowing the low salary--it is a struggle for me and I don't think you really have the right to judge. I think when people post on here it isn't helpful to mince words about the meaning of "struggling" and it is a waste of time frankly. I'm just asking for help about what the 3L options are in terms of big-firm recruiting at this point.


The last sentence is certainly good and fine. And I don't think what you said was all that bad. But yeah there are lots of people on here who'd kill to be in your position. Plus, honestly, if you got a clerkship with SDNY, you'll very probably be able to find something pretty decent in the next 6 months for the time between graduation and the clerkship.

Just don't go onto a forum for people dealing with cancer and complain about an ugly looking mole you have.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:12 pm

Nebby wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3L Starting to get pretty worried. Thoughts, advice, own experiences, anything, all appreciated

Stats:
Top 25% at regional T-35
Law review (published) and secondary; tutor LLM students in Energy and Evidence classes (paid)
1L school year clinic + summer at large respected Plaintiffs firm
2L school year RA + summer clerk at small satellite of large E Coast firm (aware from start it would not lead, at least directly, to FT job there) doing mostly high exposure products liability, insurance defense/coverage, med mal and a little election law
3L school year clerk at respected local 20-lawyer general practice

9 screeners at 2L OCI, 2 callbacks, no offers (was only in top 1/3 then)
2 bankruptcy clerkship interviews, recently dinged for both

Want to be a commercial lit associate at small/boutique/mid/big law firm in Midwest. But open to anything paying 50K :shock:
not seeing ANYTHING really on symplcity or elsewhere

It's still early.


That's what everyone says....but that is what they said all of 2L year, and I just barely got a decent gig through pretty darn near a miricle. No gurantee I'll still be Top 25% after this semester's grades come around in mid/late January...

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:50 pm

I have an interview in a few weeks with the Defender Association of Philadelphia. Any tips on doing well? This would be my DREAM. :D

ETA: It's in the Child Advocacy Unit, which is all civil. Should I expect hypos?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:12 pm

BlueLotus wrote:I have an interview in a few weeks with the Defender Association of Philadelphia. Any tips on doing well? This would be my DREAM. :D

ETA: It's in the Child Advocacy Unit, which is all civil. Should I expect hypos?


Be yourself.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Nebby wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3L Starting to get pretty worried. Thoughts, advice, own experiences, anything, all appreciated

Stats:
Top 25% at regional T-35
Law review (published) and secondary; tutor LLM students in Energy and Evidence classes (paid)
1L school year clinic + summer at large respected Plaintiffs firm
2L school year RA + summer clerk at small satellite of large E Coast firm (aware from start it would not lead, at least directly, to FT job there) doing mostly high exposure products liability, insurance defense/coverage, med mal and a little election law
3L school year clerk at respected local 20-lawyer general practice

9 screeners at 2L OCI, 2 callbacks, no offers (was only in top 1/3 then)
2 bankruptcy clerkship interviews, recently dinged for both

Want to be a commercial lit associate at small/boutique/mid/big law firm in Midwest. But open to anything paying 50K :shock:
not seeing ANYTHING really on symplcity or elsewhere

It's still early.


That's what everyone says....but that is what they said all of 2L year, and I just barely got a decent gig through pretty darn near a miricle. No gurantee I'll still be Top 25% after this semester's grades come around in mid/late January...


3L and grad hiring timelines are significantly different to 2L hiring timeline.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:44 pm

Is it OK to post in the Vale if you have a part-time legal job, but are seeking full-time employment? I mean, it is better than nothing.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:06 am

I have two different offers, somehow, and I need to make a decision today.

The first is in the city that I live in, the offer is 55k at a small/midsize medmal firm. I like the people, and I obviously love the city. However, I am concerned about getting pigeonholed into medmal.

The second is for a city that is about 5-7 hours away. The offer is for 65k. This firm does transactional and litigation related to energy and sports law. The firm appears to be growing very quickly as they have opened two more offices. Thus, I think that while the salary is small right now, there is a lot of upward growth. As with the first firm, I like the people here. The only problem would be that I do not know anyone in the state.

My last consideration is my family lives in the city I am currently in. This is not that big of a consideration but it is something.

To provide full context, I have 40k in loans right now.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:I have two different offers, somehow, and I need to make a decision today.

The first is in the city that I live in, the offer is 55k at a small/midsize medmal firm. I like the people, and I obviously love the city. However, I am concerned about getting pigeonholed into medmal.

The second is for a city that is about 5-7 hours away. The offer is for 65k. This firm does transactional and litigation related to energy and sports law. The firm appears to be growing very quickly as they have opened two more offices. Thus, I think that while the salary is small right now, there is a lot of upward growth. As with the first firm, I like the people here. The only problem would be that I do not know anyone in the state.

My last consideration is my family lives in the city I am currently in. This is not that big of a consideration but it is something.

To provide full context, I have 40k in loans right now.


Congrats! :D

Job 2.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Nebby » Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have two different offers, somehow, and I need to make a decision today.

The first is in the city that I live in, the offer is 55k at a small/midsize medmal firm. I like the people, and I obviously love the city. However, I am concerned about getting pigeonholed into medmal.

The second is for a city that is about 5-7 hours away. The offer is for 65k. This firm does transactional and litigation related to energy and sports law. The firm appears to be growing very quickly as they have opened two more offices. Thus, I think that while the salary is small right now, there is a lot of upward growth. As with the first firm, I like the people here. The only problem would be that I do not know anyone in the state.

My last consideration is my family lives in the city I am currently in. This is not that big of a consideration but it is something.

To provide full context, I have 40k in loans right now.

I'd take the second offer.




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