The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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zot1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:01 am

FWIW, after I applied to all the government honors programs in the fall, I waited until the spring to apply to firms. Most of them weren't going to consider my app before that anyway.

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TheFutureLawyer
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:45 pm

Firm I interviewed with a month back re-posted their vacancy yesterday. Randomly enough, I ran into one of the three interviewers on Tuesday at a kinda networking event, and he seemed less than thrilled about the encounter. We said hello, and then I said I assumed they had gone with someone else. He replied that he wasn't sure what was going on with the hiring process (that was up to the partners). I said something like "good luck with whoever you get," and that was it. He seemed irritated with me from the moment I said hello to the moment I left. Really weird.


Also hurts when a place re-posts that vacancy. I was qualified for the job, until they met me. They'd rather have a vacancy than have me. lol, FML.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby FSK » Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:56 pm

Yeah i feel unhirable sometimes. Really gets you after dozens of rejections

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zot1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:15 pm

flawschoolkid wrote:Yeah i feel unhirable sometimes. Really gets you after dozens of rejections


I know the feeling. I applied to 150+ places and only got 2 interviews. Hang in there. I still get rejections these days. It's still early in the game. Keep hustling.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby swimmer11 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:00 pm

Sitting at an office waiting to go to an interview and my pants split in the back. Lol. this will be fun.

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zot1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:12 pm

swimmer11 wrote:Sitting at an office waiting to go to an interview and my pants split in the back. Lol. this will be fun.


Bro! Good luck.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:14 pm

Sometimes suicide just feels like such a simple solution to a complex problem. I do not know how much more rejections I can handle. 2015 grad just passed the Bar. Nothing.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby FSK » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:16 pm

If you don't have a counselor/therapist, go get one now. You'll find something, and you are not your job.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:46 pm

flawschoolkid wrote:If you don't have a counselor/therapist, go get one now. You'll find something, and you are not your job.


I second this. Rejections mean absolutely nothing in the bigger scope of things. You just need one yes. Despite work, there are many other things in life. Jobs come and go.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:32 am

asking for a friend: guy's been looking for a bit in DC/CHI, finally got an an offer with an insurance defense lit, 3-6 person firm...for 44k. any recommendations on what number to start the negotiations at? im not sure if 65k is bracketing too low or potentially offensive.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:asking for a friend: guy's been looking for a bit in DC/CHI, finally got an an offer with an insurance defense lit, 3-6 person firm...for 44k. any recommendations on what number to start the negotiations at? im not sure if 65k is bracketing too low or potentially offensive.


Given that info, even 50k is asking too much. I'll caution your friend that with this economy, if he doesn't take the 44k, someone else will.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ilovesf » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:49 pm

asking 20k over the first offer seems a bit much to me, especially for such a small firm.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:25 pm

zot1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:asking for a friend: guy's been looking for a bit in DC/CHI, finally got an an offer with an insurance defense lit, 3-6 person firm...for 44k. any recommendations on what number to start the negotiations at? im not sure if 65k is bracketing too low or potentially offensive.


Given that info, even 50k is asking too much. I'll caution your friend that with this economy, if he doesn't take the 44k, someone else will.


Yeah, back in July I interviewed for this firm (in DC) that said their salary would be $50k for working ~60 hour weeks. After leaving the interview I was thinking that, if they did get back to me, I'd want to negotiate for at least $60k. But after 1-2 days, I realized the firm probably had other options and that the most important thing to me is to get my career off the ground. So the best thing to do would be to take the offer if given, but continue looking for something better while there.

I never got that offer, but those were my thoughts nonetheless.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:28 pm

TheFutureLawyer wrote:
zot1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:asking for a friend: guy's been looking for a bit in DC/CHI, finally got an an offer with an insurance defense lit, 3-6 person firm...for 44k. any recommendations on what number to start the negotiations at? im not sure if 65k is bracketing too low or potentially offensive.


Given that info, even 50k is asking too much. I'll caution your friend that with this economy, if he doesn't take the 44k, someone else will.


Yeah, back in July I interviewed for this firm (in DC) that said their salary would be $50k for working ~60 hour weeks. After leaving the interview I was thinking that, if they did get back to me, I'd want to negotiate for at least $60k. But after 1-2 days, I realized the firm probably had other options and that the most important thing to me is to get my career off the ground. So the best thing to do would be to take the offer if given, but continue looking for something better while there.

I never got that offer, but those were my thoughts nonetheless.


Also, but you cannot in any way bank on this (or your friend, I guess), I know many people (in LA tho...) who started out with a 40-50k salary and got raises pretty quickly in their first year. Not saying this will absolutely happen, but it could, specially if your friend shows his/her worth.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:12 pm

ilovesf wrote:asking 20k over the first offer seems a bit much to me, especially for such a small firm.

Yeah, that's asking for a 50% increase. It's obviously a sucky salary and negotiation is important but $65k seems too high.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:11 pm

zot1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:asking for a friend: guy's been looking for a bit in DC/CHI, finally got an an offer with an insurance defense lit, 3-6 person firm...for 44k. any recommendations on what number to start the negotiations at? im not sure if 65k is bracketing too low or potentially offensive.


Given that info, even 50k is asking too much. I'll caution your friend that with this economy, if he doesn't take the 44k, someone else will.


I don't think asking 50k in that situation is asking too much. I'd probably ask 52 and try to land at 50.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:53 pm

Got a CB from the environmental impact litigation nonprofit I interviewed with. Soooooooooo stoked.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ballouttacontrol » Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:21 am

Well, two more skype screeners last week turned into one last CB. AmLaw 100 satellite office. one more shot..........

I'm assuming that the fact that based on the fact I'm interviewing with them in NOVEMBER they would know I was no-offered right? They wouldn't assume I'm reneging on my 2L summer firm?

B/c this is like the 5th time a screener has acted super high on me and not asked me, "So, did you get an offer to go back?" And so I don't directly come out and say it, rather saying, "It was great exp, but you guys would be a much better fit because XYZ." Like they must KNOW at this point, so that it's not even worth asking me s/u right??
Last edited by ballouttacontrol on Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:12 am

Have an interview coming up that I wanted some advice about.

I worked at Firm A for a very little while some time back. The founding partners, some other partners, and some associates there had come over directly from Firm B. Both are small firms, though Firm B is a little bigger. Both are in the same niche practice area which I really enjoy doing.

To hear it from the people at Firm A, whom I got to trust/like and don't think were just out to bad mouth their old firm for no reason, they left Firm B mostly because the higher ups there were complete assholes (and also didn't want to continue working such long hours).

Anyway, I now have an interview with Firm B. Even if everything the people at Firm A told me was true, I still wouldn't be in a position to turn down an offer from Firm B right now.

My question is really just how I should play it at the interview if Firm B brings up the defection, or if they ask about whether the people at Firm A ever talked about them, or anything like that.

Thanks

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:13 pm

FML. One week after a call back interview, and I find a job posting from the firm I interviewed with.

God fucking damnit. Just fucking god damnit.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ballouttacontrol » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Have an interview coming up that I wanted some advice about.

I worked at Firm A for a very little while some time back. The founding partners, some other partners, and some associates there had come over directly from Firm B. Both are small firms, though Firm B is a little bigger. Both are in the same niche practice area which I really enjoy doing.

To hear it from the people at Firm A, whom I got to trust/like and don't think were just out to bad mouth their old firm for no reason, they left Firm B mostly because the higher ups there were complete assholes (and also didn't want to continue working such long hours).

Anyway, I now have an interview with Firm B. Even if everything the people at Firm A told me was true, I still wouldn't be in a position to turn down an offer from Firm B right now.

My question is really just how I should play it at the interview if Firm B brings up the defection, or if they ask about whether the people at Firm A ever talked about them, or anything like that.

Thanks


they will obviously know the people when they see your resume. they obviously only had the best things to say about them. you have no idea why they left but they're not going to ask you that lol. this stuff happens at every single law firm all the time.. i'd throw in how the work at firm b made you realize how much u like that practice area, and how they mentioned the good training they got at firm a and the great work they did there, or something along those lines

my 2 cents. this seems like a positive to me. I had a very positive relationship with both my 1L summer firm and another firm that defected from them to form a satellite office of another firm in the same city. Both firms spoke nothing but highly of each other.
Last edited by ballouttacontrol on Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:21 pm

ballouttacontrol wrote:Well, two more skype screeners last week turned into one last CB. AmLaw 100 satellite office. one more shot..........

I'm assuming that the fact that based on the fact I'm interviewing with them in NOVEMBER they would know I was no-offered right? They wouldn't assume I'm reneging on my 2L summer firm?

B/c this is like the 5th time a screener has acted super high on me and not asked me, "So, did you get an offer to go back?" And so I don't directly come out and say it, rather saying, "It was great exp, but you guys would be a much better fit because XYZ." Like they must KNOW at this point, so that it's not even worth asking me s/u right??


Just be chill and move onto the rest of hte interview. Nothing you can do now. Rooting for you

ballouttacontrol
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ballouttacontrol » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ballouttacontrol wrote:Well, two more skype screeners last week turned into one last CB. AmLaw 100 satellite office. one more shot..........

I'm assuming that the fact that based on the fact I'm interviewing with them in NOVEMBER they would know I was no-offered right? They wouldn't assume I'm reneging on my 2L summer firm?

B/c this is like the 5th time a screener has acted super high on me and not asked me, "So, did you get an offer to go back?" And so I don't directly come out and say it, rather saying, "It was great exp, but you guys would be a much better fit because XYZ." Like they must KNOW at this point, so that it's not even worth asking me s/u right??


Just be chill and move onto the rest of hte interview. Nothing you can do now. Rooting for you


thanks bud :)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:51 pm

ballouttacontrol wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Have an interview coming up that I wanted some advice about.

I worked at Firm A for a very little while some time back. The founding partners, some other partners, and some associates there had come over directly from Firm B. Both are small firms, though Firm B is a little bigger. Both are in the same niche practice area which I really enjoy doing.

To hear it from the people at Firm A, whom I got to trust/like and don't think were just out to bad mouth their old firm for no reason, they left Firm B mostly because the higher ups there were complete assholes (and also didn't want to continue working such long hours).

Anyway, I now have an interview with Firm B. Even if everything the people at Firm A told me was true, I still wouldn't be in a position to turn down an offer from Firm B right now.

My question is really just how I should play it at the interview if Firm B brings up the defection, or if they ask about whether the people at Firm A ever talked about them, or anything like that.

Thanks


they will obviously know the people when they see your resume. they obviously only had the best things to say about them. you have no idea why they left but they're not going to ask you that lol. this stuff happens at every single law firm all the time.. i'd throw in how the work at firm b made you realize how much u like that practice area, and how they mentioned the good training they got at firm a and the great work they did there, or something along those lines

my 2 cents. this seems like a positive to me. I had a very positive relationship with both my 1L summer firm and another firm that defected from them to form a satellite office of another firm in the same city. Both firms spoke nothing but highly of each other.


If you're saying that, if Firm B should ask whether Firm A ever talked about them, I should lie and say that they only had nice things to say; I don't think that'll work because I'm pretty sure they all hate each other and that hate is all out in the open.

If asked I'll probably lie and say they just never talked about Firm B, and that I have no idea why they left Firm B, though I was aware a bunch of them came from Firm B. Pretty straightforward I guess - I may have been worrying about it too much earlier.

ballouttacontrol
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ballouttacontrol » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ballouttacontrol wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Have an interview coming up that I wanted some advice about.

I worked at Firm A for a very little while some time back. The founding partners, some other partners, and some associates there had come over directly from Firm B. Both are small firms, though Firm B is a little bigger. Both are in the same niche practice area which I really enjoy doing.

To hear it from the people at Firm A, whom I got to trust/like and don't think were just out to bad mouth their old firm for no reason, they left Firm B mostly because the higher ups there were complete assholes (and also didn't want to continue working such long hours).

Anyway, I now have an interview with Firm B. Even if everything the people at Firm A told me was true, I still wouldn't be in a position to turn down an offer from Firm B right now.

My question is really just how I should play it at the interview if Firm B brings up the defection, or if they ask about whether the people at Firm A ever talked about them, or anything like that.

Thanks


they will obviously know the people when they see your resume. they obviously only had the best things to say about them. you have no idea why they left but they're not going to ask you that lol. this stuff happens at every single law firm all the time.. i'd throw in how the work at firm b made you realize how much u like that practice area, and how they mentioned the good training they got at firm a and the great work they did there, or something along those lines

my 2 cents. this seems like a positive to me. I had a very positive relationship with both my 1L summer firm and another firm that defected from them to form a satellite office of another firm in the same city. Both firms spoke nothing but highly of each other.


If you're saying that, if Firm B should ask whether Firm A ever talked about them, I should lie and say that they only had nice things to say; I don't think that'll work because I'm pretty sure they all hate each other and that hate is all out in the open.

If asked I'll probably lie and say they just never talked about Firm B, and that I have no idea why they left Firm B, though I was aware a bunch of them came from Firm B. Pretty straightforward I guess - I may have been worrying about it too much earlier.


Crazy if they really do, small firm politics I guess? but yea I think that's the right approach. Definitely don't say anything negative because you never know who might actually be friends or friendly between the two firms. Talk about the similarities in work and why it makes you like the practice area and the firm you're interviewing for. I would agree with the end though, this really doesn't seem to be a big deal to me. Good luck dude!




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