The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I wonder why so many government jobs don't do any sort of entry-level hiring that doesn't require bar admissions. Do they think law students can afford to just chill until October following graduation?

If it's a job requiring any kind of litigation, you need to be able to appear in court (or file stuff) from day 1. I don't think the Feds have student practice rules like states do, so you can't appear under a full attorney's supervision.

Plus the Feds' fiscal year begins October 1.

Besides, most people don't want to start until after taking the bar, and the most people want to take a trip/other time off, and plenty of people have to move. Two months between the bar and starting isn't really that long.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:05 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I wonder why so many government jobs don't do any sort of entry-level hiring that doesn't require bar admissions. Do they think law students can afford to just chill until October following graduation?

If it's a job requiring any kind of litigation, you need to be able to appear in court (or file stuff) from day 1. I don't think the Feds have student practice rules like states do, so you can't appear under a full attorney's supervision.

Plus the Feds' fiscal year begins October 1.

Besides, most people don't want to start until after taking the bar, and the most people want to take a trip/other time off, and plenty of people have to move. Two months between the bar and starting isn't really that long.

Yeah but you need to be admitted before applying, so you can't even apply until October. Then you have to wait however long that process takes. At the earliest you'd be starting is December.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I wonder why so many government jobs don't do any sort of entry-level hiring that doesn't require bar admissions. Do they think law students can afford to just chill until October following graduation?

If it's a job requiring any kind of litigation, you need to be able to appear in court (or file stuff) from day 1. I don't think the Feds have student practice rules like states do, so you can't appear under a full attorney's supervision.

Plus the Feds' fiscal year begins October 1.

Besides, most people don't want to start until after taking the bar, and the most people want to take a trip/other time off, and plenty of people have to move. Two months between the bar and starting isn't really that long.

Yeah but you need to be admitted before applying, so you can't even apply until October. Then you have to wait however long that process takes. At the earliest you'd be starting is December.

I think the issue is that the Feds define entry level differently than you do. The honors programs are entry level; you can (mostly) apply before you're admitted. Pretty much every other job I've seen requires 1-3 years experience for "entry level." I get that people who haven't graduated are going to apply generally for 1-3 years experience jobs, but they're not really strictly entry-level when they require some kind of experience.

There may be some rare exceptions to this, but I get USAjobs postings every day and I can't really remember seeing any jobs aimed at new grads that weren't honors programs. (That is, what you're talking about is a feature, not a bug.)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:12 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I wonder why so many government jobs don't do any sort of entry-level hiring that doesn't require bar admissions. Do they think law students can afford to just chill until October following graduation?

If it's a job requiring any kind of litigation, you need to be able to appear in court (or file stuff) from day 1. I don't think the Feds have student practice rules like states do, so you can't appear under a full attorney's supervision.

Plus the Feds' fiscal year begins October 1.

Besides, most people don't want to start until after taking the bar, and the most people want to take a trip/other time off, and plenty of people have to move. Two months between the bar and starting isn't really that long.

Yeah but you need to be admitted before applying, so you can't even apply until October. Then you have to wait however long that process takes. At the earliest you'd be starting is December.

I think the issue is that the Feds define entry level differently than you do. The honors programs are entry level; you can (mostly) apply before you're admitted. Pretty much every other job I've seen requires 1-3 years experience for "entry level." I get that people who haven't graduated are going to apply generally for 1-3 years experience jobs, but they're not really strictly entry-level when they require some kind of experience.

There may be some rare exceptions to this, but I get USAjobs postings every day and I can't really remember seeing any jobs aimed at new grads that weren't honors programs.

That's because there are none.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:18 pm

Right...which is the whole point. The feds aren't expecting law students to be able to chill until the October after graduation because they're not trying to hire law students. They're expecting law students to graduate, get admitted, work somewhere else, and then apply to the feds, at which point there isn't any issue about affording to wait to start. Unless I'm missing something you were talking about.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:28 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Right...which is the whole point. The feds aren't expecting law students to be able to chill until the October after graduation because they're not trying to hire law students. They're expecting law students to graduate, get admitted, work somewhere else, and then apply to the feds, at which point there isn't any issue about affording to wait to start. Unless I'm missing something you were talking about.

You are. My initial post was that I thought it was odd that they don't do more entry-level hiring. I realize now that my initial post wasn't clear.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:55 pm

Oh, I get it. I think they don't because (at least in my experience) once you're hired, your cases are yours - it's not like biglaw where superiors parcel out discrete tasks to juniors - so having a lot of truly entry-level people is a lot of work and takes a lot of training. They still have to train you for that particular job, but want to avoid having to train too many people how to be a lawyer, from scratch.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:37 pm

They don't do more entry level hiring because all the agencies are on a tight budget. With that in mind, it's better to hire an experienced attorney than to have a senior attorney babysit a recent grad.

That aside, agencies do see the value in training new lawyers and they do so through the honors program because they can assess how much money per fiscal year the agency can afford on a new lawyer and the honors program calls for a selective process that allows the agency to pick what they consider the best candidates.

Some agencies just don't have the budget at all so hence why they don't have an honors program.

I hope that helps answer your question.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ballouttacontrol » Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:26 am

fuck anyone else just like completely devolved?

I mean I was always kinda an alcohol but now it's just kinda ridiculous
I used to be so religious about the gym every fuckin person was mirin
Now I can't even bring myself to go to the gym all I will think about is how I could be at home trying to find more jobs to apply to. Probably exercise 1x per week now if even that
People still be mirin sure but I've gained probably like 10 pounds of fat and lost at least an inch or two on all of my measurements. I've always taken great pride in being sexy af like it's part of my identity and now I just wanna yack up everything I eat. Like without the gym I have to maintain at like 1800 calories or some shit and then I'll eat some ice cream or something and have to immediately yack it all up. Except when I'm just drunk and pass out before eating and don't eat anything except alcohol all day. then I can just yack and and have a nice clear stomach no cals thats nice

i do rough draft cover letters from buzzed to drunk at night and then1 proof them sober in the morning, send them off, and repeat. I am just completely devolving. I just felt like the fucking shit before. Then after the no offer, and moreso the constant and repeated rejection since then, I just feel like complete shit and constantly just wondering how longer I can keep doign all this shit..starting to seriously feel burnt out

Not only do I owe 6 figure debt, but I spent my LIFE FUCKING SAVINGS on tuition. Instead of just banking it and taking more loans. So now even if I do some BS fucking shit pay govt job to get my debt forgiven, I fucking 100% WASTED my life savings, like i literally just fucking donated to the government for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in return. Like every single fucking dollar, nearly half or maybe a third of my sticker debt flushed down the goddamn toilet

Is there a point where you just say fuck it and stop applying? Just try to go back to a normal life and lie to yourself everything is fine? I would sure as hell be happier, at least until I ran out of $. If it weren't for my parents still being alive I'd probably just re-start in some other random fucking country
Last edited by ballouttacontrol on Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tanicius
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Tanicius » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:20 am

ballouttacontrol wrote:fuck anyone else just like completely devolved?

I mean I was always kinda an alcohol but now it's just kinda ridiculous
I used to be so religious about the gym every fuckin person was mirin
Now I can't even bring myself to go to the gym all I will think about is how I could be at home trying to find more jobs to apply to. Probably exercise 1x per week now if even that
People still be mirin sure but I've gained probably like 10 pounds of fat and lost at least an inch or two on all of my measurements. I've always taken great pride in being sexy af like it's part of my identity and now I just wanna yack up everything I eat. Like without the gym I have to maintain at like 1800 calories or some shit and then I'll eat some ice cream or something and have to immediately yack it all up. Except when I'm just drunk and pass out before eating and don't eat anything except alcohol all day. then I can just yack and and have a nice clear stomach no cals thats nice

i do rough draft cover letters from buzzed to drunk at night and then1 proof them sober in the morning, send them off, and repeat. I am just completely devolving. I just felt like the fucking shit before. Then after the no offer, and moreso the constant and repeated rejection since then, I just feel like complete shit and probably daily thoughts of why am I still doing all of this life. If it weren't the fact I can still pull hot bitches, lots of drugs and alcohol, and my hot af girlfriend idk how I would be doing. And who knows how much longer even this can last so like...why?

Not only do I owe 6 figure debt, but I spent my LIFE FUCKING SAVINGS on tuition. Instead of just banking it and taking more loans. So now even if I do some BS fucking shit pay govt job to get my debt forgiven, I fucking 100% WASTED my life savings, like i literally just fucking donated to the government for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in return. Like every single fucking dollar, nearly half or maybe a third of my sticker debt flushed down the goddamn toilet

Is there a point where you just say fuck it and stop applying? Just try to go back to a normal life and lie to yourself everything is fine? I would sure as hell be happier, at least until I ran out of $. If it weren't for my parents still being alive I'd probably just re-start in some other random fucking country


I'd try to use your workout hobby as a way to add some structure to your life. Wake up at 8am, work out, eat breakfast, and then apply to jobs and don't let yourself do anything else that's "fun" until you've completed five cover letters or something a day.

If you're like me, being productive on one end of your life will lead to productivity elsewhere. Forcing yourself to wake up at 8am and work out then will naturally cause you to curb the drinking.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:34 am

Tanicius wrote:
ballouttacontrol wrote:fuck anyone else just like completely devolved?

I mean I was always kinda an alcohol but now it's just kinda ridiculous
I used to be so religious about the gym every fuckin person was mirin
Now I can't even bring myself to go to the gym all I will think about is how I could be at home trying to find more jobs to apply to. Probably exercise 1x per week now if even that
People still be mirin sure but I've gained probably like 10 pounds of fat and lost at least an inch or two on all of my measurements. I've always taken great pride in being sexy af like it's part of my identity and now I just wanna yack up everything I eat. Like without the gym I have to maintain at like 1800 calories or some shit and then I'll eat some ice cream or something and have to immediately yack it all up. Except when I'm just drunk and pass out before eating and don't eat anything except alcohol all day. then I can just yack and and have a nice clear stomach no cals thats nice

i do rough draft cover letters from buzzed to drunk at night and then1 proof them sober in the morning, send them off, and repeat. I am just completely devolving. I just felt like the fucking shit before. Then after the no offer, and moreso the constant and repeated rejection since then, I just feel like complete shit and probably daily thoughts of why am I still doing all of this life. If it weren't the fact I can still pull hot bitches, lots of drugs and alcohol, and my hot af girlfriend idk how I would be doing. And who knows how much longer even this can last so like...why?

Not only do I owe 6 figure debt, but I spent my LIFE FUCKING SAVINGS on tuition. Instead of just banking it and taking more loans. So now even if I do some BS fucking shit pay govt job to get my debt forgiven, I fucking 100% WASTED my life savings, like i literally just fucking donated to the government for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in return. Like every single fucking dollar, nearly half or maybe a third of my sticker debt flushed down the goddamn toilet

Is there a point where you just say fuck it and stop applying? Just try to go back to a normal life and lie to yourself everything is fine? I would sure as hell be happier, at least until I ran out of $. If it weren't for my parents still being alive I'd probably just re-start in some other random fucking country


I'd try to use your workout hobby as a way to add some structure to your life. Wake up at 8am, work out, eat breakfast, and then apply to jobs and don't let yourself do anything else that's "fun" until you've completed five cover letters or something a day.

If you're like me, being productive on one end of your life will lead to productivity elsewhere. Forcing yourself to wake up at 8am and work out then will naturally cause you to curb the drinking.


agreed. the value of exercise for your metabolism, emotional well being, ect., vastly outweighs the 45 min-1 hr actual time spent at the gym.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:02 pm

balla, you might seriously benefit from talking to someone? Assuming you're still in school, you should have access to your school's counseling services, and it sounds to me like they could help you.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:57 am

Do you guys bother applying for a job when the job posting asks for x years of experience and you have none? Does that vary by the number of years experience the job requires?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:Do you guys bother applying for a job when the job posting asks for x years of experience and you have none? Does that vary by the number of years experience the job requires?


This has been answered before but, the rule of thumb is to usually apply. Some people limit their apps to anything asking for less than 5 years of experience, but some just apply.

Personally, I never applied to anything that asked anything past 3 years of experience.

Good luck!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:07 am

ballouttacontrol wrote:fuck anyone else just like completely devolved?

I mean I was always kinda an alcohol but now it's just kinda ridiculous
I used to be so religious about the gym every fuckin person was mirin
Now I can't even bring myself to go to the gym all I will think about is how I could be at home trying to find more jobs to apply to. Probably exercise 1x per week now if even that
People still be mirin sure but I've gained probably like 10 pounds of fat and lost at least an inch or two on all of my measurements. I've always taken great pride in being sexy af like it's part of my identity and now I just wanna yack up everything I eat. Like without the gym I have to maintain at like 1800 calories or some shit and then I'll eat some ice cream or something and have to immediately yack it all up. Except when I'm just drunk and pass out before eating and don't eat anything except alcohol all day. then I can just yack and and have a nice clear stomach no cals thats nice

i do rough draft cover letters from buzzed to drunk at night and then1 proof them sober in the morning, send them off, and repeat. I am just completely devolving. I just felt like the fucking shit before. Then after the no offer, and moreso the constant and repeated rejection since then, I just feel like complete shit and constantly just wondering how longer I can keep doign all this shit..starting to seriously feel burnt out

Not only do I owe 6 figure debt, but I spent my LIFE FUCKING SAVINGS on tuition. Instead of just banking it and taking more loans. So now even if I do some BS fucking shit pay govt job to get my debt forgiven, I fucking 100% WASTED my life savings, like i literally just fucking donated to the government for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in return. Like every single fucking dollar, nearly half or maybe a third of my sticker debt flushed down the goddamn toilet

Is there a point where you just say fuck it and stop applying? Just try to go back to a normal life and lie to yourself everything is fine? I would sure as hell be happier, at least until I ran out of $. If it weren't for my parents still being alive I'd probably just re-start in some other random fucking country


Bro, don't do this to yourself as you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. I went through a rough patch the summer/fall of 3L. As a result, I missed a lot of deadlines for jobs I was really interested in. Yeah, drink a little, but don't let the hustle stop. It doesn't have to.

Go work out, you'll feel better about yourself. Drink if you have to, but don't overdo it---you can drink more when you have a job and can afford nice things. Keep applying. You miss all the shots you don't take.

Stay strong. It is still far too early in the game to let all this bullshit get to you. Now go keep balling.

jhett
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jhett » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:28 am

ballouttacontrol wrote:fuck anyone else just like completely devolved?

I mean I was always kinda an alcohol but now it's just kinda ridiculous
I used to be so religious about the gym every fuckin person was mirin
Now I can't even bring myself to go to the gym all I will think about is how I could be at home trying to find more jobs to apply to. Probably exercise 1x per week now if even that
People still be mirin sure but I've gained probably like 10 pounds of fat and lost at least an inch or two on all of my measurements. I've always taken great pride in being sexy af like it's part of my identity and now I just wanna yack up everything I eat. Like without the gym I have to maintain at like 1800 calories or some shit and then I'll eat some ice cream or something and have to immediately yack it all up. Except when I'm just drunk and pass out before eating and don't eat anything except alcohol all day. then I can just yack and and have a nice clear stomach no cals thats nice

i do rough draft cover letters from buzzed to drunk at night and then1 proof them sober in the morning, send them off, and repeat. I am just completely devolving. I just felt like the fucking shit before. Then after the no offer, and moreso the constant and repeated rejection since then, I just feel like complete shit and constantly just wondering how longer I can keep doign all this shit..starting to seriously feel burnt out

Not only do I owe 6 figure debt, but I spent my LIFE FUCKING SAVINGS on tuition. Instead of just banking it and taking more loans. So now even if I do some BS fucking shit pay govt job to get my debt forgiven, I fucking 100% WASTED my life savings, like i literally just fucking donated to the government for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in return. Like every single fucking dollar, nearly half or maybe a third of my sticker debt flushed down the goddamn toilet

Is there a point where you just say fuck it and stop applying? Just try to go back to a normal life and lie to yourself everything is fine? I would sure as hell be happier, at least until I ran out of $. If it weren't for my parents still being alive I'd probably just re-start in some other random fucking country


This comes from the tough love category of advice: GROW UP.

It sounds like you've kinda been coasting your whole life so far, cashing in on your looks, charisma, money, and whatever else you think you have to get by in life and have fun. Now, because of your own inability to control yourself as a summer associate, you are a no-offered 3L. And you're falling apart during your job search, becoming an alcoholic, and apparently have developed some sort of eating disorder.

Thing is... people are supposed to grow out of this shit. Yeah, partying, looking fine, getting drunk and high, and hooking up with hot girls is fun in college and into your mid-twenties. But if you're trying to become some sort of responsible person that can hold down a job (a legal job at that), you need to let go of that stuff. Because soon, you're gonna look like a Jersey Shore reject that people pity.

First, stop drinking. You seriously sound like you need outside intervention, because YOU ARE AN ALCOHOLIC. No, you don't just drink for fun anymore or to have a good time. You are drinking by yourself to drown your negative emotions. Stop making excuses - YOU NEED HELP.

Second, get back to a gym routine and eat healthy, but change your attitude. You take care of your body to be healthy, not to look sexy so everyone else can check you out. That is the wrong motivation for doing things. Basing your health routine on what other people think of you will drive you to the things you say you're doing - calorie counting, bulimia, and eating nothing to compensate for binge eating. And that's even more unhealthy than just not doing anything at all.

Third, get some friends. Ones that you can open up and talk to, not ones that will hang with you at a club. You need some healthy relationships and emotional support in your life, which you don't have. And is your girl a real partner, or some dumb-ass arm candy? Because if she were real, you'd open up to her. You sound like a guy who doesn't really think deeply about yourself and about life, nor talk deeply with others, i.e. YOU ARE SHALLOW. Time to grow up and be a real man, not this boy-child you are now.

Fourth, get some perspective. You're still in school and still have a lot of time to find a job. Don't lose hope yet. This job search is apparently crumbling your self-esteem. But guess what - this is far from the hardest thing you'll experience in life. There are much worse things that will happen down the road - more job layoffs, health scares, the death of your parents. Life doesn't get any easier. Shit just piles onto shit until you die. You have to become more resilient than this. Talk to friends, get a therapist, go on a Eat Pray Love trip, or ANYTHING that will change your view of life.

Fifth, start budgeting your money if you are concerned about it. Stop buying alcohol and going out so much. Develop self-control.

Lastly, just look in the mirror and think whether the person you are now is the same person you want to be 10 years from now. If the answer is no, then you'll do what I've suggested and more to become a person that people will actually respect. If the answer is yes, then you're too far gone already and nothing I say will mean anything.

Anyways, I've already spent too much time typing this goddamn basic shit. Time to get back to my life.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:11 pm

jhett wrote:
ballouttacontrol wrote:fuck anyone else just like completely devolved?

I mean I was always kinda an alcohol but now it's just kinda ridiculous
I used to be so religious about the gym every fuckin person was mirin
Now I can't even bring myself to go to the gym all I will think about is how I could be at home trying to find more jobs to apply to. Probably exercise 1x per week now if even that
People still be mirin sure but I've gained probably like 10 pounds of fat and lost at least an inch or two on all of my measurements. I've always taken great pride in being sexy af like it's part of my identity and now I just wanna yack up everything I eat. Like without the gym I have to maintain at like 1800 calories or some shit and then I'll eat some ice cream or something and have to immediately yack it all up. Except when I'm just drunk and pass out before eating and don't eat anything except alcohol all day. then I can just yack and and have a nice clear stomach no cals thats nice

i do rough draft cover letters from buzzed to drunk at night and then1 proof them sober in the morning, send them off, and repeat. I am just completely devolving. I just felt like the fucking shit before. Then after the no offer, and moreso the constant and repeated rejection since then, I just feel like complete shit and constantly just wondering how longer I can keep doign all this shit..starting to seriously feel burnt out

Not only do I owe 6 figure debt, but I spent my LIFE FUCKING SAVINGS on tuition. Instead of just banking it and taking more loans. So now even if I do some BS fucking shit pay govt job to get my debt forgiven, I fucking 100% WASTED my life savings, like i literally just fucking donated to the government for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in return. Like every single fucking dollar, nearly half or maybe a third of my sticker debt flushed down the goddamn toilet

Is there a point where you just say fuck it and stop applying? Just try to go back to a normal life and lie to yourself everything is fine? I would sure as hell be happier, at least until I ran out of $. If it weren't for my parents still being alive I'd probably just re-start in some other random fucking country


This comes from the tough love category of advice: GROW UP.

It sounds like you've kinda been coasting your whole life so far, cashing in on your looks, charisma, money, and whatever else you think you have to get by in life and have fun. Now, because of your own inability to control yourself as a summer associate, you are a no-offered 3L. And you're falling apart during your job search, becoming an alcoholic, and apparently have developed some sort of eating disorder.

Thing is... people are supposed to grow out of this shit. Yeah, partying, looking fine, getting drunk and high, and hooking up with hot girls is fun in college and into your mid-twenties. But if you're trying to become some sort of responsible person that can hold down a job (a legal job at that), you need to let go of that stuff. Because soon, you're gonna look like a Jersey Shore reject that people pity.

First, stop drinking. You seriously sound like you need outside intervention, because YOU ARE AN ALCOHOLIC. No, you don't just drink for fun anymore or to have a good time. You are drinking by yourself to drown your negative emotions. Stop making excuses - YOU NEED HELP.

Second, get back to a gym routine and eat healthy, but change your attitude. You take care of your body to be healthy, not to look sexy so everyone else can check you out. That is the wrong motivation for doing things. Basing your health routine on what other people think of you will drive you to the things you say you're doing - calorie counting, bulimia, and eating nothing to compensate for binge eating. And that's even more unhealthy than just not doing anything at all.

Third, get some friends. Ones that you can open up and talk to, not ones that will hang with you at a club. You need some healthy relationships and emotional support in your life, which you don't have. And is your girl a real partner, or some dumb-ass arm candy? Because if she were real, you'd open up to her. You sound like a guy who doesn't really think deeply about yourself and about life, nor talk deeply with others, i.e. YOU ARE SHALLOW. Time to grow up and be a real man, not this boy-child you are now.

Fourth, get some perspective. You're still in school and still have a lot of time to find a job. Don't lose hope yet. This job search is apparently crumbling your self-esteem. But guess what - this is far from the hardest thing you'll experience in life. There are much worse things that will happen down the road - more job layoffs, health scares, the death of your parents. Life doesn't get any easier. Shit just piles onto shit until you die. You have to become more resilient than this. Talk to friends, get a therapist, go on a Eat Pray Love trip, or ANYTHING that will change your view of life.

Fifth, start budgeting your money if you are concerned about it. Stop buying alcohol and going out so much. Develop self-control.

Lastly, just look in the mirror and think whether the person you are now is the same person you want to be 10 years from now. If the answer is no, then you'll do what I've suggested and more to become a person that people will actually respect. If the answer is yes, then you're too far gone already and nothing I say will mean anything.

Anyways, I've already spent too much time typing this goddamn basic shit. Time to get back to my life.


Harsh. I mean yea, his schtick is pretty douche/bro, but this is making a lot of unjustified assumptions about his life/character

jhett
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jhett » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:52 pm

Harsh. I mean yea, his schtick is pretty douche/bro, but this is making a lot of unjustified assumptions about his life/character


Yeah, maybe I did. If I misjudged him, he is free to ignore me. But everyone seems to be treating him with kid gloves. I figured I'd try a swift kick in the ass instead.

That is, assuming he's not a flame.

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zot1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:01 pm

I'm not saying that tough love isn't a good thing, but being a 3L without a job when most of your friends (some who are not even as qualified) have one just freaking sucks balls. This is particularly worse when you don't have the option to just go home and live with your parents if graduation without a job occurs (that was me). So I cut the guy some slack because I don't know entirely how bad he has it.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:32 pm

I feel like I increasingly just don't give a shit about this whole process anymore. Countless interviews and callbacks, some so close but just never quite enough it seems. I'd been told many times throughout and after undergrad that I am a great interviewer, yet law firms seem to really dislike me. Just had my probably last biglaw callback and again, rejected. Damn I feel hopeless.

NorCalLaw
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NorCalLaw » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:40 am

ballouttacontrol wrote:fuck anyone else just like completely devolved?

I mean I was always kinda an alcohol but now it's just kinda ridiculous
I used to be so religious about the gym every fuckin person was mirin
Now I can't even bring myself to go to the gym all I will think about is how I could be at home trying to find more jobs to apply to. Probably exercise 1x per week now if even that
People still be mirin sure but I've gained probably like 10 pounds of fat and lost at least an inch or two on all of my measurements. I've always taken great pride in being sexy af like it's part of my identity and now I just wanna yack up everything I eat. Like without the gym I have to maintain at like 1800 calories or some shit and then I'll eat some ice cream or something and have to immediately yack it all up. Except when I'm just drunk and pass out before eating and don't eat anything except alcohol all day. then I can just yack and and have a nice clear stomach no cals thats nice

i do rough draft cover letters from buzzed to drunk at night and then1 proof them sober in the morning, send them off, and repeat. I am just completely devolving. I just felt like the fucking shit before. Then after the no offer, and moreso the constant and repeated rejection since then, I just feel like complete shit and constantly just wondering how longer I can keep doign all this shit..starting to seriously feel burnt out

Not only do I owe 6 figure debt, but I spent my LIFE FUCKING SAVINGS on tuition. Instead of just banking it and taking more loans. So now even if I do some BS fucking shit pay govt job to get my debt forgiven, I fucking 100% WASTED my life savings, like i literally just fucking donated to the government for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in return. Like every single fucking dollar, nearly half or maybe a third of my sticker debt flushed down the goddamn toilet

Is there a point where you just say fuck it and stop applying? Just try to go back to a normal life and lie to yourself everything is fine? I would sure as hell be happier, at least until I ran out of $. If it weren't for my parents still being alive I'd probably just re-start in some other random fucking country


Stay strong and keep applying. You can absolutely still nail a job that makes up for your expenditures.

New folks from from my class (2015) are getting jobs every week, and I didn't go to an amazing school.

NorCalLaw
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NorCalLaw » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:I feel like I increasingly just don't give a shit about this whole process anymore. Countless interviews and callbacks, some so close but just never quite enough it seems. I'd been told many times throughout and after undergrad that I am a great interviewer, yet law firms seem to really dislike me. Just had my probably last biglaw callback and again, rejected. Damn I feel hopeless.


Look at it this way: if you're getting so many first and second interviews, you are qualified and likable. You're inevitably going to land a spot in due time. It's so, so much worse to get a stone wall.

ballouttacontrol
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ballouttacontrol » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:11 am

Thanks guys. Read it all and appreciate most of it. Been having a pretty productive couple of days, hopefully it can roll on into a couple more..

@ tough love guy -- def not offended or anything. you're right on some points and way off on others, but it made me smile lol. FTR, and only feel like going into this one point, because I'm SURE I'm not the only one here it applies to:

I do have the boys back home for life. But being not the sophisticated types....concepts like debt and interest rates or $ figures over 5 figures just aren't really part of that life back home. It's also nowhere near my law school. You can't exactly talk to ppl at my law school about this kinda thing. I know of 2 others that didn't get firms in OCI, but no one that got no offered. And no one knows I was that'd be awkward af anyways. Which is why at times I come post here--to vent more than anything or maybe commiserate idk

As for the rest, meh, judge me or dislike me if you want hey some people aint bout this life and never would be. that's fine. i see where u coming from tho.

@ zot bra, and some others up there -- 4sho..thanks for the words cuz
And actually to everyone thanks not even lyin



Anonymous User wrote:I feel like I increasingly just don't give a shit about this whole process anymore. Countless interviews and callbacks, some so close but just never quite enough it seems. I'd been told many times throughout and after undergrad that I am a great interviewer, yet law firms seem to really dislike me. Just had my probably last biglaw callback and again, rejected. Damn I feel hopeless.


Prolly the last person you would want any advice from, but you're not alone. That pretty much summed up my thoughts a couple days ago, since then I got another burst of energy to actually do something. Even if they get harder and harder to find, there's always more firms to apply to

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:28 am

Since we are opening up about our failures:

This time next year, I will be:

29
JD from top 14
Cum laude
PhD
125k in debt to the government
50k in debt to my grandparents

I just feel beaten and directionless. I've been a student my whole life and now i need to become an adult. I was going down the biglaw path because I thought I needed to. The firm was the worst, and my cold offer turned into a no-offer. I don't even know if I can work biglaw hours. I have applications out everywhere, have interviewed at biglaw, government honors, district attorney's offices, and for judicial clerkships.

I just don't know what I'm supposed to do or what I am supposed to want to do.

I am a reasonably intelligent guy; I am very lazy when it comes to reading and writing; my emotional intelligence and mouth are off the charts and I find personal interaction highly enthralling and rewarding. I just don't know if I can sit behind a desk my whole life. I just want to mediate/negotiate/arbitrate/lobby, but I know I have to earn that right. I just don't know how to.

I'd pay for a "Come to Jesus" speech.

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FSK
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby FSK » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:50 pm

I've been pounding the pavement since my no offer for a long term gig, and though I've got a lot of irons in the fire nothing has come through yet. Could really use a break, its seriously starting to wear on my mental health.




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