The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273597
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:59 am

Got rejected by a firm that strung me along for a pretty long time and then forgot to tell me that they already filled the position. I only found out after I sent an email asking for an update.

I'm trying not to take it personally but this rejection has really been a blow to my self-esteem since some of my contacts knew the partners and offered to put in a good word for me and I also thought that I had a good interview/connected with the partners. Basically this has so far been my closest shot at getting a job and it didn't work out. Sometimes I irrationally worry that there's something wrong with ME that makes me un-hireable.

(To top it off, this was probably one of my last chances to get a job near my SO. It's a small market so not a lot of opportunities and I feel like I've tapped out. Now I'm moving to an actual city to continue the job search there but will have to do long distance with my SO until they finish their grad school program. Feel bad about putting my SO in this position but I'm not ready to give up yet.)

User avatar
shredderrrrrr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:36 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Got rejected by a firm that strung me along for a pretty long time and then forgot to tell me that they already filled the position. I only found out after I sent an email asking for an update.

I'm trying not to take it personally but this rejection has really been a blow to my self-esteem since some of my contacts knew the partners and offered to put in a good word for me and I also thought that I had a good interview/connected with the partners. Basically this has so far been my closest shot at getting a job and it didn't work out. Sometimes I irrationally worry that there's something wrong with ME that makes me un-hireable.

(To top it off, this was probably one of my last chances to get a job near my SO. It's a small market so not a lot of opportunities and I feel like I've tapped out. Now I'm moving to an actual city to continue the job search there but will have to do long distance with my SO until they finish their grad school program. Feel bad about putting my SO in this position but I'm not ready to give up yet.)


I honestly had the exact same thing happen to me (even down to it being my "best" chance and one of the last chances in a small market). Let me tell you this--it sucks. I know exactly what you're feeling. Just try to keep your head up. Realize that they did consider you seriously for the position. The fact that you made it beyond a quickly rejected resume submission means there isn't anything wrong with you and that some firms are going to be interested. This just wasn't the firm. While it certainly sucks being so close and not having it work out, getting so close is far preferable to just spinning your tires and getting no movement on any applications.

Just keep submitting! Something will come your way.

User avatar
shredderrrrrr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:36 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:49 pm

zot1 wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:What's the consensus on applying, as a recent graduate, to job postings looking for 2Ls or 3Ls? I only ask because one of the few firms in my desired town doing my desired niche area of law is looking for a 2L or 3L law clerk. While it wouldn't be the ideal position (obviously, being a recent graduate), it would be a foot in the door in the local niche market. Would I look like an absolute fool to apply?


Re this one. I would email the hiring person (hopefully a partner) and send an email inquiring whether he or she would be willing to consider a recent grad for the position and attach my resume to the email. Other people might tell you to just apply. And others will tell you to keep looking for post-grad stuff. I don't know that there's a clear answer. Sorry.


Thanks for this--I really appreciate the advice. My main concern was if it was some laughable faux pas that would tarnish my reputation or something. But it sounds instead like it is something acceptable to do with just disagreement on how to do so.

User avatar
shredderrrrrr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:36 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:04 pm

It's a depressing feeling when a 10-hour independent contractor research assignment has me excited as it does, but I'll take what I can get right now!

With that said, do you guys know how long after graduation you're able to use Westlaw without paying? I figured it would close my account upon graduation (or sometime around then), but I tried logging on for the first time since law school today and it still looks to work as normal. If I use it, am I going to be getting a massive bill? Or does the student usage extend for some time?

User avatar
TheFutureLawyer
Posts: 3886
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 2:28 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:11 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:It's a depressing feeling when a 10-hour independent contractor research assignment has me excited as it does, but I'll take what I can get right now!

With that said, do you guys know how long after graduation you're able to use Westlaw without paying? I figured it would close my account upon graduation (or sometime around then), but I tried logging on for the first time since law school today and it still looks to work as normal. If I use it, am I going to be getting a massive bill? Or does the student usage extend for some time?


lol, you won't be charged.

For me I think Westlaw lasted through November and Lexis through December or January.

swimmer11
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:54 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby swimmer11 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:52 am

Managed to snag another interview, praise baby jesus. I love this firm. Does anyone have any interview tips or tidbits that they have picked up along the way? I really, really, do not want to fuck up yet another interview. I have a mock interview scheduled with an alumni today, but I just really, really, do not want to fuck this up

Anonymous User
Posts: 273597
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:52 am

swimmer11 wrote:Managed to snag another interview, praise baby jesus. I love this firm. Does anyone have any interview tips or tidbits that they have picked up along the way? I really, really, do not want to fuck up yet another interview. I have a mock interview scheduled with an alumni today, but I just really, really, do not want to fuck this up


I'm in the same situation-- good luck! I don't have interview advice, other than to be confident and remember that you are great candidate.

In addition to last minute interview tips/pep talk-- I have a question. I think I am reading too much into this, but I am interviewing with 2 partners. I thought it was a screener, but it seems weird to me that they would devote a full hour of partners' time to a simple screener interview (this is a large firm, but I would join a niche practice group). Thoughts on this? Could it lead straight to offer? I usually wouldn't worry about it, but I have travel plans coming up and it would a massive pain/impossible to have to change them last minute in case there was a callback.

User avatar
TheFutureLawyer
Posts: 3886
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 2:28 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:26 pm

swimmer11 wrote:Does anyone have any interview tips or tidbits that they have picked up along the way?


Don't be TheFutureLawyer.


I really wish that was a tip I could try out, just to see how it goes.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273597
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:37 pm

Hello All,

New to this forum. Posting on my school's symplicity that asks for cover letter and salary requirements. It's an NYC firm with between 75 and 100 attorneys. I'm pretty sure their salary range for new associates is 100,000+ but don't know how much. What should I put down. Don't want to undercut myself but truthfully I would jump on the opportunity for a lot less than 160,000. Any thoughts?

User avatar
TheFutureLawyer
Posts: 3886
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 2:28 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hello All,

New to this forum. Posting on my school's symplicity that asks for cover letter and salary requirements. It's an NYC firm with between 75 and 100 attorneys. I'm pretty sure their salary range for new associates is 100,000+ but don't know how much. What should I put down. Don't want to undercut myself but truthfully I would jump on the opportunity for a lot less than 160,000. Any thoughts?


Depends on how much you want the job. Personally, I'm desperate and would put a really low number to make myself as competitive as possible.

User avatar
crumpetsandtea
Posts: 7156
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:57 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby crumpetsandtea » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:42 pm

Is it a faux pas to put "negotiable" or something?

User avatar
TheFutureLawyer
Posts: 3886
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 2:28 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:59 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:Is it a faux pas to put "negotiable" or something?


I always put that when salary requirements are asked, though I still don't have a real job, so what do I know. I did get an interview from at least one place where I wrote that though.

lawstudent35
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:30 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lawstudent35 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:09 pm

Ideally, I would want to put "negotiable." Problem is, I'm worried that that'll piss them off because I'm basically not answering their question.

User avatar
TheFutureLawyer
Posts: 3886
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 2:28 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:40 pm

lawstudent35 wrote:Ideally, I would want to put "negotiable." Problem is, I'm worried that that'll piss them off because I'm basically not answering their question.


Should have said, I always put a number (personally, a low one), and say that it's negotiable depending on the terms of employment.

User avatar
shredderrrrrr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:36 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:16 pm

TheFutureLawyer wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:Is it a faux pas to put "negotiable" or something?


I always put that when salary requirements are asked, though I still don't have a real job, so what do I know. I did get an interview from at least one place where I wrote that though.


I just realized it's the blind leading the blind in here. Maybe we should all do the exact opposite of the advice we get from each other?

User avatar
shredderrrrrr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:36 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:16 pm

TheFutureLawyer wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:It's a depressing feeling when a 10-hour independent contractor research assignment has me excited as it does, but I'll take what I can get right now!

With that said, do you guys know how long after graduation you're able to use Westlaw without paying? I figured it would close my account upon graduation (or sometime around then), but I tried logging on for the first time since law school today and it still looks to work as normal. If I use it, am I going to be getting a massive bill? Or does the student usage extend for some time?


lol, you won't be charged.

For me I think Westlaw lasted through November and Lexis through December or January.


Thanks for this. It's what I figured, but I'm unreasonably paranoid sometimes.

User avatar
shredderrrrrr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:36 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:19 pm

swimmer11 wrote:Managed to snag another interview, praise baby jesus. I love this firm. Does anyone have any interview tips or tidbits that they have picked up along the way? I really, really, do not want to fuck up yet another interview. I have a mock interview scheduled with an alumni today, but I just really, really, do not want to fuck this up


Aside from being prepared (knowing your materials and being ready for all sorts of questions), just be yourself. My most successful interviews have come when I've acted as though the interviewer was more of a professional colleague than, well, an interviewer. I'm not saying to be disrespectful or unprofessional, but allow your personality to shine. For instance, if you have a funny anecdote or something that fits into a conversation, roll with it--don't just regurgitate stock answers.

User avatar
zot1
Posts: 3157
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:53 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:07 pm

If you can somehow find out how much a associates make, that'd be ideal. Otherwise, I would do one of two things: just say 80k or 100k or negotiable. (This is based on me remembering reading something that they knew a associates made 100k).

swimmer11
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:54 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby swimmer11 » Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:33 pm

What are some strange or unusual questions people have received in interviews before? I am trying to prepare for any possible contingency.

User avatar
shredderrrrrr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:36 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:58 pm

swimmer11 wrote:What are some strange or unusual questions people have received in interviews before? I am trying to prepare for any possible contingency.


I've never received anything too out of the ordinary for legal jobs, but have been asked "if you could have any superpower, what would it be and why" and "what movie character would you say you are most like and why" in earlier interviews.

The trickiest questions I tend to get in legal interviews are the "tell me how you would handle scenario x, y, or z" sorts of questions. I just had one that asked "What specifically do you do (give examples) when given multiple assignments at the same time?" While not too tricky on its face, it was somewhat hard for me to verbalize something other than just "Uh...prioritize and work until everything is done?"

User avatar
shredderrrrrr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:36 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:07 pm

What is the consensus on getting an offer when you're still waiting to hear back from/interview for another position (assuming the second position is the more desirable of the two)? Must you accept an offer immediately or can you wait until you hear back about the second opportunity?

I only ask because I had an interview for a district court clerkship and, by all accounts, it sounds as though they plan on offering me the position very soon. As much as I would absolutely love that job, I recently had a state supreme court justice reach out to me asking if I would be interested in interviewing for a clerkship that is available immediately. All things considered, I would rather work at the appellate level for this judge (though, to reiterate, either position would be good for me). My interview for the supreme court is later this week and I anticipate hearing about the district court position earlier this week. Is it ever professionally acceptable to defer my decision until after I hear back about another position (assuming, of course, the second position would be making a decision relatively quickly)?

User avatar
zot1
Posts: 3157
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:53 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:14 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:What is the consensus on getting an offer when you're still waiting to hear back from/interview for another position (assuming the second position is the more desirable of the two)? Must you accept an offer immediately or can you wait until you hear back about the second opportunity?

I only ask because I had an interview for a district court clerkship and, by all accounts, it sounds as though they plan on offering me the position very soon. As much as I would absolutely love that job, I recently had a state supreme court justice reach out to me asking if I would be interested in interviewing for a clerkship that is available immediately. All things considered, I would rather work at the appellate level for this judge (though, to reiterate, either position would be good for me). My interview for the supreme court is later this week and I anticipate hearing about the district court position earlier this week. Is it ever professionally acceptable to defer my decision until after I hear back about another position (assuming, of course, the second position would be making a decision relatively quickly)?


It is absolutely okay to say thank you, I'm so happy, when do you need my decision by?

I will caution you that I have seen very recently that some places have rescinded offers to people who asked for time to make their decision, albeit these have all been small or medium firms. I'd like to think judges would be better than that.

Congrats tho! It sounds like you're in the right path. I've been pulling for you all this time :)

User avatar
shredderrrrrr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:36 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:43 pm

zot1 wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:What is the consensus on getting an offer when you're still waiting to hear back from/interview for another position (assuming the second position is the more desirable of the two)? Must you accept an offer immediately or can you wait until you hear back about the second opportunity?

I only ask because I had an interview for a district court clerkship and, by all accounts, it sounds as though they plan on offering me the position very soon. As much as I would absolutely love that job, I recently had a state supreme court justice reach out to me asking if I would be interested in interviewing for a clerkship that is available immediately. All things considered, I would rather work at the appellate level for this judge (though, to reiterate, either position would be good for me). My interview for the supreme court is later this week and I anticipate hearing about the district court position earlier this week. Is it ever professionally acceptable to defer my decision until after I hear back about another position (assuming, of course, the second position would be making a decision relatively quickly)?


It is absolutely okay to say thank you, I'm so happy, when do you need my decision by?

I will caution you that I have seen very recently that some places have rescinded offers to people who asked for time to make their decision, albeit these have all been small or medium firms. I'd like to think judges would be better than that.

Congrats tho! It sounds like you're in the right path. I've been pulling for you all this time :)


Thank you! It is definitely nice to be getting some traction in the search--but I'm alway cautiously optimistic (for I have had one too many seemingly "sure things" fail to materialize). Hoping something pans out!

But that is a good way to phrase it! I was wondering how I could do it tactfully. Not mentioning why I would like more time to decide seems a good approach (if I decide to do so). But what you mentioned is certainly a concern of mine--the last thing I would want to do is send the message that I wasn't 100% interested in the offer!

User avatar
zot1
Posts: 3157
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:53 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:56 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:
zot1 wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:What is the consensus on getting an offer when you're still waiting to hear back from/interview for another position (assuming the second position is the more desirable of the two)? Must you accept an offer immediately or can you wait until you hear back about the second opportunity?

I only ask because I had an interview for a district court clerkship and, by all accounts, it sounds as though they plan on offering me the position very soon. As much as I would absolutely love that job, I recently had a state supreme court justice reach out to me asking if I would be interested in interviewing for a clerkship that is available immediately. All things considered, I would rather work at the appellate level for this judge (though, to reiterate, either position would be good for me). My interview for the supreme court is later this week and I anticipate hearing about the district court position earlier this week. Is it ever professionally acceptable to defer my decision until after I hear back about another position (assuming, of course, the second position would be making a decision relatively quickly)?


It is absolutely okay to say thank you, I'm so happy, when do you need my decision by?

I will caution you that I have seen very recently that some places have rescinded offers to people who asked for time to make their decision, albeit these have all been small or medium firms. I'd like to think judges would be better than that.

Congrats tho! It sounds like you're in the right path. I've been pulling for you all this time :)


Thank you! It is definitely nice to be getting some traction in the search--but I'm alway cautiously optimistic (for I have had one too many seemingly "sure things" fail to materialize). Hoping something pans out!

But that is a good way to phrase it! I was wondering how I could do it tactfully. Not mentioning why I would like more time to decide seems a good approach (if I decide to do so). But what you mentioned is certainly a concern of mine--the last thing I would want to do is send the message that I wasn't 100% interested in the offer!


I agree. At least one of my friends is in really bad shape financially so she was devastated when her offer got pulled even though she just asked for a few days to think about it.

I think it would be good for you to be prepared for the following situations. If you ask when they need your answer by and they say oh now, then be prepared to say fuck yeah I'm in. If they say a week, say great thanks and follow up with the other judge and mention your clock is ticking. If they say how long you need, I wouldn't dare ask for more than a week. If they ask why you need time to think, I would say you're very thankful and excited for this opportunity but you just want to double check and make sure that everything is in order before accepting. If they press for more info, you're on your own as the previous response has bought me a few extensions before and I have yet to be asked for more.

Good luck!

kykiske
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:12 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kykiske » Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:52 am

It's pretty heartbreaking, frankly, to see some of my classmates already start at their firms. I know it's typical for associates to start before bar results come out, but that doesn't stop me from feeling like shit. They successfully got summer associate offers, which led to full time offers.

Am I naive in thinking that once bar results come out, with hopefully good news that I passed, that my job prospects look better?




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.